I feel sorry for the families. The greedy stupid Bali 9 knew what they doing. They took the chance and got caught.
Not forgetting that they did multiple trips as well. This wasn't a first off.
Ken
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I feel sorry for the families. The greedy stupid Bali 9 knew what they doing. They took the chance and got caught.
Not forgetting that they did multiple trips as well. This wasn't a first off.
Ken
The last person executed in Australia was?
and the controversy surrounding his conviction and subsequent execution was?
Bruce C
Being a right sh^tstirrer in the quest to make us question our values
Heroin is harmless...until you ingest it. My point being that at the end of the day it's the user who is harming themselves. The Bali nine are no threat to me, and if my kids grow up happy and respecting themselves, then they're safe from that threat too. Remove contaminants and unknown potency and it becomes even less of a risk. Legalise it and you take organised crime out of the picture. As long as it's for sale, though, you'll never take profit out of the picture. Just shift it to the legit drug companies. I'm not scared of drugs. I'm ****scared of the type of animals that profit from them though.
Again on the DP being a deterrent, these guys may simply have weighed the odds between getting killed by the authorities or killed by someone in the trade. (Not suggesting that this is an excuse).
I don't think the world is ready for full legalisation of all drugs. Yet. We need to understand drug abuse and how to raise individuals who don't need to use that ****. But there is also a point where we have to let people make their own decisions. Legalisation, or something approaching it, is the only just way of sparing the rest of us from the impact of those decisions.
And Gumby, please don't think I am apologising for anyone like Bryant or Knight. At least, I hope I'm not and I'll have a good think about it.
But revenge is bad for the spirit (IMO) and bad for the health of the community. And, seriously, would you let the Tasweigians make decisions like that!!:rolleyes:
Rusty.
P.S. If was a semantics nazi then, of course a death penalty would be appropriate, under Indonesian law...
Some guy in '64 I think... but the question is are we any worse off not executing those we think are truly evil. I dont know the answer to that but every time I watch a movie about a monster(s) on death row, I cant help but feel bad (thats the best I can describe it). I felt the same last night from the perspective of a parent.Quote:
Originally Posted by E. maculata
What about all those yanks on death row who were freed when DNA tests proved them innocent. Sorry I cant be too specific but I thought the number was over 100. I think that's extraordinary.
The law doesn't always get it right and juries especially dont.
Yes it is a real possibility that Schapelle Corby will be executed. With the information that I've been fed by the media, I believe that she is innocent. You can't take back an execution once you've given one.
"Never gamble more than you are prepared to lose" as my old daddy used to say. They knew the stakes, I don't think they will be allowed to welch on the bet. My fervent hope is that the bloke who didn't have anything on him but who seems to be in charge of the group doesn't get a lighter sentence than the dopey mules.
Not many cheers,
Graeme
Playing Devils Advocate:
It seems to me that the media has believed the stories these people have told with out a moments hesitation.
No one is available nor will there be,to repudiate such claims that they're families were threatened. How would we know that this is the truth and not just a scheme that was hatched in the event that they got caught.
What if there is no "MR BIGS" and this crew are the "MR BIGS", but would have us believe that they are simple mules?
Let us remember that the price of the product overseas is far different from the supposed street value over here.All we have heard about is the weight or the street value, not the actual cost of the unrefined product.
The point is that nobody really knows if these guys are telling the truth or not...how can we?
Do we simply take their word for it.
If they hadnt got caught, they would be back here savouring the fruits of their labours and i suspect, wouldnt have given 2 s#*^ts about the end users.
Let them have their day in court and if found guilty suffer the consequences.
I think that was Ryan in Victoria .Quote:
Originally Posted by E. maculata
The controversy was only agitated by the press and the bleeding hearts brigade who think there always is an excuse for the anti social behaviour of hardened murderers like Bryant and Knight.
As a result the silent majority got screwed again with the abolition of the death penalty.
Peter.
Ronald Ryan was the last bloke hung in Victoria, and the implication that the execution had a political bias. Certainly the premier Mr Bolte was said to favour an execution prior to an election as it showed they where tough on crime. I do feel genuinely sorry for Miss Corby especially as the circumstances make her story believable and compelling. We forget that our system is innocent unless proven guilty and courts do not generally find you innocent merely that there was sufficient evidence to find you guilty. The Indonesian system is similar to some European models, you are guilty unless you can prove innocence.
I had a bit to do with early release prisoners working on something I was involved in years ago, there seemed to be a general view that don't do the crime if you can't do the time. They knew the risks and penalties and seemed prepared to accept that risk. I still don't believe a humane society should accept the death penalty as it can't be undone, however there are some bastards that have forever lost their right to be part of the outside world again and can rot in prison where they belong. They include nutters like Bryant and Julian Knight amongst other sadistic killers.
JohnC
yep Ron Ryan for apparently killing a prison guard during an escape attempt, other controversy besides the election chestbeating was since to get the angle of entry he would've need to be fairly tall like 24-30 feet tall or possibly be another guard whom may or maynoy have accidentally shot the wrong guy, so we killed Ryan in retribution 1967.
QLD (YES THIS SURPRISED ME TOO)abolished the death penalty in 1922!
Victoria was last domino to go 1975 legislation was passed.
Trying to be fair minded in this media hype, got me thinking maybe this guy they're calling Mr Big is the one who said to the organisers "no way I'm not doing it" do we have any proof he isn't besides a smurky look and a joking mannerism, which also could be because he thought Gee am I glad I didn't go through with it".
Now within myself I reckon he's as guilty as sin but isn't this scenario plausable, but what the heck do I know about it I'm just a guy a thousand miles away who knows some stuff about trees, and not much else
Different countries have different laws, and while we may not agree with them I think you would be foolish to flout them and then expect immunity.
Here's a diiferent take: why did the AFP tip off their Balinese counterparts instead of arresting the 9 when they landed in Australia? Arresting them here would have put feathers in their caps, I can't see them handing over all those brownie points for no reason. Obviously there's some behind the scenes politics happening here.
What if some senior figures on our side approached the Indonesians and said,
"Look, you know and I know that Schappelle is innocent, I mean why would you take marijuana from Australia to Bali? It's cheaper and easier to buy over there and the quantity is a bit over the top for personal use. If you find her guilty there's going to be a hell of a lot of tourists rethinking their travel plans to Bali worried that their luggage might be tampered with. And there's all this aid we're giving you, a lot of peope back here will be rethinking that. Now obviously some of your chaps are going to lose some face if you find her guilty, and we know that's really hard for Asians to do, so as a sweetener for your law enforcement people who will lose face over this we'll give you nine traffickers thast our boys and girls have been tracking and they're carrying heroin and lots of it. What do you reckon, do we have a deal?"
Of course if Schappelle is found guilty (from what I've read, I don't think she is) then this theory will be shot down in flames.
While we're on the subject, I don't believe that prohibition is the answer. The US tried it with alcohol and it just made the gangsters rich. Unfortunately you won't stop people using it and as long as the demend is there people will find a way to supply it. Restrict the supply and demand and price go up. I believe that by suppling users in a govenrment controlled program would put the traffickers out of business and in the long term would cost our community less. But I don't think the voting public is ready for this so no government will be game to introduce it until they knew they couold do so and still remain in power.
Having said this, I still wouldn't feel comfortable about actually making the drugs available myself, hell I won't even buy a packet of ciggies for anyone.
Mick
I'm with Mick on this one (first bit at least). Given the way Asian's value keeping face this is a good way to allow Corby to recieve a lesser sentence and still look like the Indonesian's are trying to stamp out drug trafficking.
What worries me is that the authorities were able to magically find the supplier who had been elusive for years. And he was shot during the arrest. A cynic would make someting of this.
But one last thought. We are basing our discussion and position on what we have been fed by the media. They are only motivated by what sells a paper. Lindy Chamberlain is a great example of that. I don't know if she killed Azaria or not but I do know that the media found her guilty and she was jailed. Some years later the media decided it was a raw deal and the free Lindy campaign started..... Bingo she's out of jail.
A sad day for Australia I reckon.
As for the 9. The warnings are everywhere. They knew the penalty and now they are probably going too pay for their stupidity with their lives. It doesn't seem fair but it's the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter57
Call me a cynic. Witnesses stated that they saw him being quietly led to the car and taken away in handcuffs. Then the next thing you know he turns up dead. I reckon there might be something sus there.
Who are you trying to kid? Tell that to the victims of the burglary's and armed robberies and thefts that are perpetrated in the pursuit of cash to fund the habit. The Bali 9 and every other smuggler are a threat to every person in this country, not just for those who get themselves addicted. To me they are all the scum of the Earth and I'm not at all bothered that they might cop the death penalty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty
Dan
When I had faith in our legal system I would have thought what DanP said was cold, draconian, callous etc, unfortunately I agree with him.
When the druggies take a compassionate softly approach when they don’t burgle our houses, when they don’t kill little old ladies for $15 then I will strongly support taking a softly softly approach.
Druggies have been given an opportunity to revise their burglary habits after we have given them the soft approaches – rehabilitation, smack on the wrist (excuse the pun), minor fines (less than speeding fines).
These measures haven’t worked. Druggies couldn’t care less about anyone but themselves.
If a druggy broke into my shed, knowing the cops won’t turn up in a hurry, knowing if they do get caught they will be let off, knowing the insurance companies will try to get out of paying me …….. I could be easily tempted to take measures myself that would put the druggy out of his/her pain of withdrawal, assist them not producing offspring with a habit, keeping my tools and keeping the neighbourhood safe.
What would my penalty be? Would the drug world be campaigning for me to be treated lightly?
Laws and threats aren't going to stop it. Woodwork might!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wood Borer
Government sanctioned murder is no better than any other kind.