Lending Tools

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Originally Posted by Corunetes

There's one thing about lending your tools to a person........... The return will tell you more about that particular person than you would learn in a long time!:o

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yep thats my philosophy as well, the loss or damage or even non return of a tool is a very cheap way of determining a persons worth.

So I happily lend with the " its a boomerang" line and wait and see.

It's rare but rewarding when you find people that have the same values as yourself about returning on time and in same nick, but to be truthful if they had the same values as me they wouldn't dream of borrowing another persons tools unless it was an emergency.

It applies to books as well. No!

Geez , you feelin' OK, ya scared me. :o

"The idiot who will let you borrow his tools is out of the workshop at the moment."

-sign in mechanic's workshop in Rosedale, Vic.

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Originally Posted by Honorary Bloke

I believe this falls under para. 6.4.2 of the Code if widely interpreted. Mayhap Driver will want to expand this para. to include these circs. :((

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Bob

I'll give this a bit of thought. It certainly needs to be covered by the Code.

Speaking personally, I would never lend my tools to anyone in whom I didn't have complete confidence that they would return them on time and in the same condition as they were when they left my care. In practical terms, that is a very small list, presently comprising one person - and he is a direct descendant of your present correspondent. :wink:

Col

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Originally Posted by pawnhead

When I started in the game I used to be so proud of my tools and the condition they were in, but now if I saw two tradesmen, one with immaculately maintained tools, and one with beaten up/home modified tools, I know who I'd hire. It wouldn't be the Nancy boy who farts around all day instead of getting stuck into the job.

Your tools are meant to be beaten up, and if you don't like it, then don't lend them to anyone.

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I look after my tools, so it seems that must make me a nancy boy!:q Personally, I've noticed the smart builders disregard the chest beating & utilize the variety of skills & abilities to their benefit. Some blokes are good at the fast major construction parts, & others are better at the detail work. Thats why the Yanks have framing & finish carpenters as almost separate trades. As for the "tools meant to be beaten up",:o I don't find it much trouble to use & handle them correctly in a way that keeps them in good condition. If you give the OK to treat them bad, thats what happens, & I cant see how that gets the job done any quicker. Finally, tools in Oz are pretty expensive, so unless your packing a truck load of low quality crap (in which case it doesn't matter) I buy well once & look after it. This way, I'm not replacing stuff every year & I can get ahead & build up a more comprehensive kit.:2tsup:

At the suggestion of our septic mate: Honorary Bloke, the Drafting Committe (of which said HB is now a member, incidentally) has added a new section to The Code, as follows:-

6.5. Borrowing and lending tools – a touchy subject.

Important note: on the subject of lending and borrowing tools, please note that whether or not a bloke is prepared to lend his tools it is entirely his prerogative to determine. Whether or not he is prepared to lend you his tools may depend upon how well you understand and follow these guidelines.

Further important note: The preceding paragraph was, in all previous editions of The Code, the only passage that dealt with the subject of the borrowing and lending of tools. However, there has recently arisen some controversy on this subject and The Code’s Drafting Committee considers that the issues raised merit inclusion in The Code so as to provide some guidance for blokes in what can be a difficult area.

6.5.1. A bloke shall never ask another bloke for a loan of a tool or tools.

6.5.2. On the other hand, a bloke may choose to offer to loan another bloke a tool or tools.

Note the crucial difference. It marks the yawning gulf between unblokeliness and generosity of spirit.

6.5.3. If a bloke accepts the generous offer of the loan of another bloke’s tool, the receiving bloke (the loanee) shall treat the loaned tool with enormous respect, shall handle it with an excess of care and attention and shall return it to the owner (the loaner) in a condition at least equal to that in which the tool was loaned.

Note: In these circumstances, it is recommended that the loanee enquire of the loaner at the time that he accepts the loaned tool whether he, the loanee, should sharpen, hone or add protective and/or anti-corrosive substances to the loaned tool prior to returning it. This is important. The loaner may wish to do any or all of the above himself. It would be presumptuous (not to mention unblokely) of the loanee to carry out such work on the loaned tool without permission.

6.5.4. If a bloke accepts the loan of a tool generously offered and, in the course of using said loaned tool, he should break or damage it, he (the loanee) shall replace the loaned tool with an equivalent or better tool at his own cost. Not to do so shall be a serious Code violation, leading to immediate loss of blokely status.

6.5.5. If a bloke, possessed of a spirit of generosity, should loan a tool to someone else and should receive that tool back in broken or otherwise damaged condition – without any offer from the loanee to replace, repair or offer appropriate restitution, the loaner shall:

6.5.5.1. know never to loan a tool to this person again,
6.5.5.2. know, also, that this person is not a bloke; he is not even a chap; he is, in fact, lower than a snake’s belly and a very poor specimen of humanity.

6.5.6. As a general guide, if a bloke is contemplating loaning a tool or tools to another bloke, he should first have a good look at the other bloke’s own tools. Their condition will provide a clue as to how well the potential loanee is likely to treat the potential loaner’s tool(s).

6.5.7. As stated, this whole subject is touchy. A useful solution to the potential problems that can arise when a bloke is concerned about the probity of another bloke’s attitude towards tools is – instead of loaning tools when asked - to offer to carry out the work for which the tool is requested.

This new section is now included in the updated issue of The Code, to be posted today in the following thread:

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...=33205&page=11

Yes, I should have qualified my words a bit better. It's just that I've met carpenters in the past that are incredibly fanatical about their tools, and the sharpness of their edges. They are usually the ones that spend all day getting every little detail of their work perfect instead of getting a decent days work done. Of course there's a difference between framing and finishing, but some blokes treat a frame as if it's a Mona Lisa. A half blunt chisel or saw blade will probably still cut through a 4X2 quicker than spending half your time on a grind stone.
As for tool quality, of course there's tools and there's tools. I've found that a small $20 hammer drill/screwdriver will last almost as long as one I've paid $200 for. I reckon a $20 chisel would last me a lifetime if I don't break it whilst using it as a lever. I've only broken one that way so far, but the time I've saved in mucking around going to the truck to get a pinch bar would have made up for it.
I certainly wouldn't pay $300 for a Japanese chisel no matter how long it keeps an edge. It's no problem whipping out my belt sander and putting an edge on my $20 job, and if I'm doing detailed work then I might use my oil stone to hone it as well. If I'm doing framing then I wouldn't bother with a stone. It's just a waste of time since I might end up driving it into an unseen nail.

Col,

May I offer my congratulations to you and the rest of the drafting commitee?

As usual, a most comprehesive update to The Code.

Well done!

:D

I know what your saying John. I'm a bit particular myself (the misus calls me Mr Meticulous) & I recon on of the hardest things I had to learn in the trade was how to best use my particular skillset to my advantage. It all fell into place when a bloke said to me one day "quality is a variable thing", meaning the tolerance for inaccuracy can vary depending on what your doing. I had to fight the urge to make everything perfect, because it was a liability. Now, when the time is right I can bodge it with the best of them, but I can always call upon the finer skills I'm more comfortable with when the nature of the task dictates. As you say, its the same thing with the tools. No point having the razor sharp chisel in the tool pouch if your doing lots of framing. I have a set of razor sharp chisels for good work, but only because after 25yrs I've finally worked out how to get that edge very easily, & they're nice to use. I don't sharpen my stuff on the job, it's done at home after hours.

Way back then ..around 25 years ago I made the decision to lend a mate a 7.1/4" Skilsaw for his pergola he was building outta heavy Jarrah.
The saw was relatively new and then I saw no problem with the lending of it as he is an honourable bloke who does do the right thing by folk,the saw motor was consequently burn't out with him obviously trying to force the cut and not paying attention to the blade which had dulled after a lot of work.:(

He notably replaced the saw (which I still have)with profuse apologies about his lack of attenion to working the saw,together with the financial pain of a scotsmans purse he then had to endure.

I said to myself that from that moment on I would never lend tools so that no-one person would find themselves in an embarrassing situation with the necessity of having to replace a borrowed tool.:B

Money was tight for him then (not only was he a scotsman but he was also building a new home) but I guess the lesson he took from that which he later told me was that if he had of gone out and bought a saw for himself he would'nt have been in the situation he found himself in.

As the moral is wont to quote "Never a lender or a Borrower be"

Cheers:)

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Originally Posted by John Saxton

..................As the moral is wont to quote "Never a lender or a Borrower be"................

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Shakespeare actually, can't remember which play though.:-

Mick

Merchant of Venice I would guess

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Originally Posted by journeyman Mick

Shakespeare actually, can't remember which play though.:-

Mick

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At the risk of being a smartarse, it's Hamlet. Polonius' advice to his son Laertes. OK, so I'm a smartarse. (Spent 2 whole years of English Lit. at high school studying Hamlet. It tends to stick :rolleyes: ).

Mate it obviously didn't stick to me.:D