Rant from a workplace counsellor

Reader's Digest had a 'feature' article on this about 10 years ago - Professional Victims they called it.

At least some of the real problems that occurr with Police, Fire & Ambulance (and the rest of you guys) is the modern management idea of 'nose to the grindstone, every minute, every day'. Way back - say early 1970's when I joined up, there was time in the daily routine for the crew to sit around & discuss what they had done or were doing, swap stories & whinge about the 'boss'. You quickly learnt that S.H.1.T. happened, had happened & would happen, there was nothing personal about it & little you could do about it.

Now every one is not supposed to know squat about what anyone else is doing, no discussion, no sharing of information, just stick in your own box & don't look outside. So when the cracks start to appear, the 'boss' is now faced with getting someone in to sit around for hours with each employee, individually, and perform the same task that half an hour's 'stitch-and-bitch' would have achieved at minimal cost in time & $$$.

And the people who are really having problems rarely complain or get/seek help until it is too late to make any difference, while the loud do-nothings soak up all the available resources.

Oh, Bah Humbug!:D

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Originally Posted by Clinton1

The foetal one, thats actually quite good!.

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no it didnt work!! I was prosecuting officer and i pointed out that the soldier was enlisted without any qualifications on his enlistment medical board and was still at his latest medical assessment without restrictions desp-ite what may or may not have happened before he was born and for which he presented no documentation
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ons/icon14.gifhttp://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ons/icon14.gif

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Originally Posted by Clinton1

It seems most degrees now have a wank word course element, i.e. business administration has four 1st year subjects that are nothing to do with business administration.

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A friend is in the final throes of a multi-media degree. in the final year they have to pick one subject from another faculty for some reason. she chose a unit whereby she could write on the affects on society of the vietnam war. whats that got to dowith multimedia anyway?

Anyway she faileds the subject because she included serving soldiers and returned soldiers in her definition of society. the professor said they werent society, society was the people who remained in australia and didnt serve at all. that happened in 2005. that professor was living in the 1960's. No wonder the vietnam veterans are still struggling for recognition.

I particularly like the attitude of some of the younger blokes we get on site.

Before taking them on we make sure they get the "You understand you are starting at the bottom to work your way up and to learn all you can on the way. Remember, if you show effort and initiative, you'll progress faster"

Two weeks into work, a job starts to come to a close and they have to get on the broom and chip in and clean up, when they have spent the previous time watching and handing things to tradesmen.

Someone on site requests them to smarten up their act - possibly in colloquial terms they may not have previously encountered directed at themselves, but they have certainly directed at others in a social environment.

All of a sudden: I can't work anymore the stress is too much; I don't appreciate the way I am treated; and my favourite: I shouldn't have to do something I don't want to

Oh and "Can't we get someone else to do it..."

There's a very good book about an infantryman's experiences fighting in Burma during WWII. It's called "Quartered Safe Out Here" The author is George MacDonald Fraser. He is, amongst other things, the author of the Flashman stories.

In "Quartered Safe Out Here" he recounts his real-life experiences as a young kid, drafted into the army and sent across to the other side of the world to put himself in mortal danger, fighting to the death against a fierce and extremely dangerous enemy. He writes the story the way he lived the experience - as an adventure.

Towards the end of the book, he gives his opinions on the subject of this thread. It won't be any great surprise to you to learn that he (like most of the people who experienced Workd War II - my parents, for example) is dismissive of counselling and disparaging of the modern trend to seek "professional" help to overcome problems.

MacDonald Fraser, like my dad and all his brothers and brothers-in-law, had a different experience on demobilisation from what Vietnam vets faced on their return. The WWII warriors were met with - generally speaking - the appropriate welcome for heroes of a just war. The great majority of their countrymen and women were glad to see them back, glad it was all over, delighted they were all still alive and looking forward to the future.

Vietnam vets had faced all the bloody awful horror of war (adventure or not) and came back generally to be scorned, put down or ignored and to face, subsequently, the kind of attitude presented by the dickheaded professor in Doug's post.

So there was a significant difference in the post-war experiences of George MacDonald Fraser and my dear old dad compared to that of some of the blokes of my generation who went to Vietnam. Nevertheless, MacDonald Fraser's views on counselling and the blame culture are worth reading if you get your hands on his book.

Col

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Originally Posted by dazzler

This garbage has even extended into policing.

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Extended into? I think we invented it.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by dazzler

Its now mandatory to undertake counselling after attending a "critical incident" - death, accident, violent domestic etc.

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That's what they tell you. Truth is, no one can be forced to go to counselling (not in Vic anyway).

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Originally Posted by dazzler

if you are a callous bugger and use black humour to get over it you are frowned on.

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Black humour has long been the defence mechanism in many different careers to stop people from being affected by seeing things that other may never have to see. Those who don't have to deal with these sh it jobs can not possibly understand why you are making jokes about a gross situation.

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Originally Posted by dazzler

Oh and the other one was a recent recruit working the club district with us two older guys. Put up with cr*p from two young blokes picking fights with others most of the night. Made one too many pig grunts so decided they were coming in for a sleepover. They Decided to play up so away we go only to find it was just two of us playing.:D

The newbie just watched and did nothing. :confused: Finally took em down after calling for assistance and being helped by another crew.:D

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That's the sh it they feed them in the various academy's these days. I had a similar one where the crook threw a punch first and then we just went at it, toe to toe. No time to get gear out, just stand and fight. The trainee actually ran away. Luckily the Frankston van was only a minute off.

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Originally Posted by dazzler

Asked the newbie just "What the expletive is going on"

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Same. He said he was trained to get distance when the poo hit the fan so that he could consider his options. I don't think they meant when your offsider is going hammer and tongs with some POS on a train station platform.:mad:


My take on the 'run to a counsellor' mentality is simply another way of getting someone else to deal with your problem. No one wants to take responsibility for their own stuff ups and just fix it.

Dan

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

Your friend hey??? :rolleyes: :D

Al :p

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:p

Clinton,
I don't think I'd last long in your job. (They'd sack me for sure!:D ) My wife has had a really rough trot, healthwise for many years now with lots of operations, radiotherapy and chemo. I give her all the love and support I can, and then some, but when she starts feeling sorry for herself I am merciless. She hates it at the time but thanks me for it afterwards because self pity is a sure way to despair and depression. My advice to all those self indulgent, moaning whingers who refuse to take responsibility for their own lives? "Life's tough, deal with it."

Mick

Well, over the years reading and hearing all the excuses being talked about here I have decided that my life has gone down the wrong path. Instead of being a home owning, married, normal fringe lunatic, based on my lifes experiences I should be:-

A serial killing axe weilding bank robbing paedophile rapist dole bludging wife bashing homosexual neurotic bastard. Only the last word is correct. The previous also assumes that I survived multiple suicide attempts.

Where have I gone wrong. :D

Is the Uni denominator because these days to attand one must a) have a wealthy/priveliged background, b) Be totally selfless and competitive during the course, me me me, c) be brainwashed during it to think that because you can retain knowledge long enough to pass a few exams, and thus pull a higher salary, you're better/superior to the 'no letters' scum that you have to work with.

Clinton, play these people The Eagles 'Get over it" ("I'd like to find you as a child and kick it's little ####") to help them with thier perspective.

Jeez fellas.

There seems to be a lot of uni-bashers here isn't there? It seems everytime I look at a non-woodwork thread someone is blaming everything on uni. students... Sometimes it may be fair, sometimes not, but I would suggest these people have a think about it before they say it, otherwise they are being as bad as the whingers that everyone here is complaining about.

Anyway, as for if there is a difference between the courses, I can only really speak for engineering at Uni. of Tas. But we have a drop out of about 50% in the first 6 months. If you get through the course it is because you are a tough bastard.
Sure, you have some people who feel threatened, some people who feel like the world has been unfair, but in being here for over seven years now (undergrad and almost finished my PhD) I have only heard about one official complaint and it was resolved pretty easily. Thus, I reckon that it is unlikely that it is engineers who are doing the complaining...

Cam

When I did my BA any 'lefty' influences always seemed to stem from the Sociology Dept, when I got to Phd I was too bloody busy to notice and really didn't give a rats, it was my life, my subject and I had to work as well, sod 'em all.

That's coz the engineers are the cause, not the problem Cam :D

I agree though, the uni bashing that goes on on this forum is thoughtless. Perhaps I should start talking about plumbers with gold plated tools etc. I've dealt with the 'me me' type from all backgrounds, and when I was in the public service, the ones rushing to counsellors and blaming others tended to be non-uni types ... perhaps because I was in an engineering department and most of the uni types were engineers or surveyors :confused: :rolleyes:

Personally, I think the problem is through the whole of our society. Yes, it is the result of changing attitudes and to a large extent, it's been a good move. Like everything though, take it too far and it falls down. Anyone who thinks the 'climb into your shell and tough it out' route is the best way to handle life's traumas are fooling themselves - it's as destructive as racing off to your counsellor for reasurance. The answer lies somewhere in the middle.

Richard

I brought up the uni comment as it has been the only common denominator I have identified so far.
Not trying to bag uni's, its just that its been identified. Others have identifed that it's being found in others as well.

I'm hoping others can throw some more thoughts into the mix as to where this culture is coming from.

Some good thoughts so far.

Iain's comment re "the given number of problems in a specific area are directly proportional to the 'services' available" <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->is interesting - trying to get to the bottom of that might be like arguing about what came first, the chicken or egg though. Not sure if I'd get an answer, only opinions.

I am actually all for counselling, where appropriate, and agree that talking about the stuff that happens in life and work with workmates and family/mates is a good part of life.
The best form of counselling is simply blowing off steam with mates, IMO.

I also find that concepts such as self-reliance, teamwork, espritit-de-corps, sacrifice, mental/physical toughness and mateship are not well developed in young people. Its there, but often needing a lot of work.

Maybe too much sitting around studying and "being involved with people through electronic means" is part of it.
A lot of the whingers have social lives, but not too many meaningful relationships. Thats one of the reasons that they focus so much on their work relationships... and the things that happen at work, that I wouldn't think twice about, cut them to the bone.

Maybe I could include that conforming to peer pressure is crippling as well. Its not often that I come across 'tough nuts' that don't give a stuff as to what others think about them. The bloody minded individuals are getting rarer. Now its often a case of "I'm an individual cause I choose to conform to this groups dress/behavioural/language/piercing code".

I have not found a country-raised person that blames others either.

Not having a go at young people now either, as I've said before 95% are great to good... its the 5% that give me the irrits.

G'day Clinton1,

I'll add that I'm one of those that don't give a stuff what others think of me, I'm an honest bloke, give loyalty, respect etc., but if someone doesn't like me, then really I don't care - because they're probably not the sort of person I like anyway or more to the point, tolerate.

But all this doesn't make me a bloody minded individual, maybe it's that I don't tolerate fools or similar. I don't go along with thinking that such and such a thing is popular so I have to like it too.

:)

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Originally Posted by CameronPotter

Jeez fellas.

Thus, I reckon that it is unlikely that it is engineers who are doing the complaining...

Cam

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I wasn't counting the engineers. We all know we're different:rolleyes: :D and superior, and don't need to be told.:p

Maybe there are tossers everywhere, and some of them went to uni?