:doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Dean
:doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Dean
My life experiences plus running part of the finances at work has long ago taught me not to worry too much over amounts like $400.
Get the board replaced and the air-con working. And make damn sure the hole is fixed so it doesn't happen again.
Then, if you have the time and are willing to use it to try and recover the $400, contact the installer and see if they'll pay up. If not then use a legal threat of some type. And finally there's always the small claims.
That said, if paid overtime is available where you work then just earning another $400 would likely be quicker and easier.
Yeap, you'll live longer. :2tsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurf
Never. Why should a company accept dodgy workmanship?Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Elec
How many split systems work fine in Shanghai and Dubai? Thousands on skyscraper buildings.
Not that they get them installed by half-starving uneducated slave labourers. Cannot be possible. Impossible!
I am not an aircon tech but I reckon I could install a system better than many installers with licence. Correct installation methods are all in the installation manual.
How many aircon installers even bother to buy and use torque wrenches?
Shame! Shame! Shame!
For your kind information the WORD PUTTY IS USED IN THE FUJITSU INSTALLATION MANUALQuote:
Originally Posted by journeyman Mick
Putty has many compositions/applications
put·ty1 http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif/ˈpʌthttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/g...una/thinsp.pngi/Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[puht-ee]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciationnoun, plural -ties, verb, -tied, -ty·ing.
–noun
<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">1.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">a compound of whiting and linseed oil, of a doughlike consistency when fresh, used to secure windowpanes, patch woodwork defects, etc. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">2.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">any of various other compounds used for similar purposes. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">3.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">any of various substances for sealing the joints of tubes or pipes, composed of linseed oil with red lead, white lead, iron oxide, etc. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">4.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">a creamy mixture of lime and water, partially dried and mixed with sand and plaster of Paris to make a finish plaster coat. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">5.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">putty powder. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">6.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">any person or thing easily molded, influenced, etc.: We were putty in his hands. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=luna-Ent minmax_bound="true"><TBODY minmax_bound="true"><TR minmax_bound="true"><TD class=dn vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">7.</TD><TD vAlign=top minmax_bound="true">light brownish- or yellowish-gray. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
–verb (used with object)
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/putty
???????? LIES!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers
i NEVER LIVE LONGER WITH THE KNOWLEDGE OF BEING CHEATED WITH SHODDY WORKMANSHIP.
:~
Well I have seen many installation manuals which tell you to do the purge method. A propper tech will evacuate the system suitably using a multistage pump.Quote:
Originally Posted by Learner
They don't, at least from what I have seen. With a propper flare, and drop of oil, a fridgy will be able to feel the connection. The correct torque will not make up for otherwise incorrect procedures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Learner
You won't if you let it continue to bother you, get over it & move on. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Elec
YOU MUST BE JOKING. They tell you they supply extra refrigerant for purging?
Show me those manuals?
Well if the manufactorer doesn't honor warrantee using this goo, then I would tell the mechanic to remove the system, and refund the $$. Simple. Otherwise go to fair trading.
What many people don't realise with AC systems, is dodgy work will often allow the unit to work fine in the short term (albeit not as efficient). The problem is inside the system things are happening, and it could be the difference between lasting 3 years, or 20 years fault free.:o Think about that when there is a difference in the install quote is a couple of hundred dollars...
I am not joking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Learner
I was an AC mechanic for 10 years, but left 6 years ago. Believe me, there are manuals which say that... Not that we followed them, we just did it the old fashioned way. I was predominately in service/maintenance. I would have installed less than a couple of dozen splits.
I don't even think Artick licence was established then. At least it wasn't inforced as I never got certified. No one ever asked me to do so.
Interesting!Quote:
Originally Posted by Learner
Did you take the cheapest quote?
P
:?
You are saying you would buy a new car which bolts have been fitted in the factory without a Torque wrench?Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Elec
We all earn money honestly and expect a good worker to use the right tools and do a good job for our hard earned money.
No!Quote:
Originally Posted by bitingmidge
I am saying I have never seen a fridgy use a torque wrench on a flare nut. I have known dozens of fridgys.
Torque wrenches were not used on flare nuts at TAFE in either the trade, or the advanced course either. Should I dust off the old notes?
Not all bolts on a car require a torque wrench anyway...
Move on! :~
Nothing but posts whinging about air/con, globes and other carp. :angfire:
Go sharpen a few chisels or do something with a bit of wood.
before i start i don't to start a argument, but i have never used a torque wrench to tighten up flares on any system and have never had any problems, that is why you are ment to pressure test for leaks. as stated with practice you know when they are tight enough. properly done flares seal really well with out problems..
but on the original message i would go back to the dealer or to who ever recommened this guy and get a exlenation as to his qualifications and abilitys.. otherwise contact artick.. they are now the regulating body.. best of luck
Great sweeping generalisation...Quote:
Originally Posted by Learner
Do you like aircon installers giving you (free) advice when you ask for it??
Who was your teacher. Name of your Tafe please?Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Elec
http://www.airconditioningadvice.com...hp?p=91#post91
http://airconditioningadvice.com.au/...hread.php?t=33Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrob
Why do I need free advice. I pay for a job and manual supplied with the equipment gives correct installation methods and tools to be used for the job which I expect to be followed.Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Elec
There is only one way to do a job. And that is the correct way!:wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Elec
Ultimo TAFE for both Fridgy trade, and advanced certificate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Learner
Followed on with Electrical trade, Electrical engineering cert4, industrial electronics, Austel, PLC's..........
Can't remember the teachers name. Is it even relevant? He was old, and very experienced though...
And your qualifocations are...
Were you asking for advice in your other thread, or just winging??Quote:
Originally Posted by Learner
It seems to me you have an agenda, so I will bow out of this discussion now.
Good luck with your mouse problem...
Every manual I have read so far says "use a torque wrench". Your teacher must be smarter than them.Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Elec
Of course I did some wood work recently. If that makes you happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldo
Why are you whinging about your rulers made wrong by 10mm?:((Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldo
You are also qualified to install a split system with a 1 week course. Not sufficient IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Learner
And your qualifocations are? (Apart from reading manuals)
My qualificationsQuote:
Originally Posted by AV Elec
Reading forums. See thread below
http://airconditioningadvice.com.au/...hread.php?t=33
http://www.airconditioningadvice.com...hp?p=91#post91
Learner. For 3 weeks, 1 day and 23 hrs (at the time of writing) you have asked for advice, got it, ignored it and gone on your merry way of denigrating all A/C installers and other sundry trades because of your own lack of experience in dealing with people.
You have gone into other threads with the same lack of understanding and tolerance and hung it on everyone in there as well.
If you are so smart from reading all the manuals and searching the web, fix the thing yourself. I am sure there is somewhere that can tell you how to fix the circuit board and install it so that it is vermin proof.
I am also sure that if you search long enough on the web you could probably find out how to exterminate all the rodents so that it wouldn't happen again.
You may also learn that tradies that do a job for years have a "feel" for what they do and don't have to use a torque wrench on non critical components.
You have had your bitch, now do as others are telling you, move on and get over it. This thread will be closed in 24 hours.
Learner keep it civil.
The reason for the torque wrench is to make sure the torque is correct. It wouldn't be impossible for an experienced person to do the same job without that tool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Learner
It's like cooking. They tell you to measure all the ingredients. But professional chefs just chuck things in without actually measuring. They get it right due to experience.
I see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smurf
Anyway with an airconditioning system we need precise torque. I do not think there is scope for inaccuracy. Who wants a a system that does not last 20 + years?
Sometimes the cost of installation is more than the unit itself. And to realise that the technicians who install these units do not want to invest in quality instruments like digital guages, quality vacuum pumps and torque wrenches makes me upset.
The vacuum pump that my installer used looked like those tiny cheapest 15 dollar air-compressors for car tires.
They do not want to invest in quality deep vacuum pumps.
At the cost of 750 dollars for a single split system installation I do not think I was asking for too much.
The vacuum pump below is the type I expect to be use for my system-not some 15 dollar el cheapo toy rubbish that was used for very short time.
http://www.jbind.com/catalog_multi-p...07_catalog.pdf
Danger.
Regarding the discussion on what is "putty", please note that there used to be a product made with oil and asbestos. This sets white in colour where exposed to the sun and never goes hard (stays a grey colour) where not exposed. The hardened putty will easily break and release fibres.
As most would be aware, asbestos is highly dangerous - get a licensed removalist to deal with it and don't DIY unless you can simply dispose of whatever it's on without disturbing the actual putty.
Whilst this is no longer sold, I just thought I'd mention it given the discussion about putty. Don't use any old putty in brown paper wrappers if you aren't sure what it contains.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hey I did not denigrate other sundry trades. You put words in my mouth.
Thank you to all who defended the Refrigeration trade (except Peter who suggested that if houses were designed correctly the Fridgy would be extinct, what would Architects know anyway:D)
I have a full ArcTick licence and have completed an apprenticeship as a Refrigeration Mechanic.
The one thing I have noticed in this whole post is that "Learner" has chosen his user name wisely, as far as I can tell he will always be a learner and never be learned:)
Cheers, Jack
Learner,
Fujitsu, a Japanese company, used the word "putty" in its installation manual, a manual which was written to be distributed to many English speaking markets. You've also correctly idenntified that this word has many and varied dictionary meanings. However, when used in the context of building work and air con installations in Australia "putty" is not used. There is everyday language, slang, legalese and technical jargon. People in certain industries/professions/trades use technical jargon because everyday language is not sufficient to communicate the intricacies of their specialisation. In the context of building and air con installations "putty" is not used for sealing air con unit service penetrations. It may be used for stopping holes in timber prior to finishing (but rare nowadays) and it sometimes still gets used for glazing work in timber frames (but it's mostly been replaced with timber beads and a smear of silicone). Quote the manual or the dictionary all you want, but book knowledge doesn't equate with real life training and knowledge.
By the way, what makes you think a mouse crawled up the service duct and into the wall cavity to chew on your cabling? It's much more likely that it was already in your house, either in the ceiling crawl space or under the floor and accessed the wall cavity from there.
Mick
You are a rare breed. They mentioned the other day that Fridgys were the number one listed in the skills shortage. There should be plenty of work on.:UQuote:
Originally Posted by Jack E
Is it even possible to use a torque wrench on a flare nut????:? I can't see it, you could use a crow's foot wrench - a bit like a short open ender with a square opening for a 1/2" drive but this would lengthen the effective lever and make the torque wrench setting incorrect. I'm not a fridge mechanic but I've rebuilt a fair bit of machinery and fitted high pressure dive compressors as well as brake lines and gas lines and refrigeration systems etc all with flare nuts. I can't imagine using a torque wrench in preference to the feel of the fitting nipping up as you tighten it. A torque setting would assume that all the pipework used had exactly the same hardness so that it would seal with the same torque every time. I don't think I'd trust that the metallurgy was that consistent.
Mick
Learner,
As all your facts so far are based on web learning, perhaps you should look at the ArcTick page and check the requirements for an AC installer.
He is required to have a vacuum pump.
If you can find a cheap vac pump in Australia, I suggest you buy them all and sell them to tradies.
Is the vac pump you referred to OK for all refrigerants or do we need a different one for each type.
Can you please let me know what you do for a living so I can do 30 seconds of internet research and have a crack at your job too!
Cheers, Jack