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Mick,don't know about mental anguish but about 5 years workers comp on stress leave if you are inclined for a bludge :D TIC. Then of course a permanent disability payout, would guarantee you never work again at least for a boss.Quote:
Originally Posted by journeyman Mick
Sorry no laughing matter:B
OK. I've read all the posts in this thread. In a previous life I was a union official and industrial advocate in both the state and federal industrial courts. As a Ministerial Adviser in 2001 I was closely involved with developing Tassies new (and much maligned I should add) Workers Compensation and Rehabilitation Act 2003
The law states clearly that if you receive attention in your workplace which you don't invite and it's unwanted then its harassment. Doesn't matter if you're man, woman, bi, gay, old, young, black,white or brindle, Moslem, Jew or Christian.
Harassment and discrimination, particularly in the workplace, is illegal and carries huge penalties in the most serious cases.
You have a case for Workers Compensation. If you're in Victoria I'm fairly certain that the definition of injury has been changed (as it was in Tasmania in 2003) to include mental illness as a compensable injury.
You sound as though you are going through a period of severe anguish (mental strain or stress) due to your harassment at work.
If you're in a Union (and everyone should be) call a rep and ask them to earn the dues you pay and sort the problem for you with the ahole managers. Then go see your GP. Tell him/her you are stressed out due to workplace harassment and want to lodge a Workers Comp claim. The doctor will give you a certificate which you then take to your gutless boss who should then (by law) give you a Workers Comp form to fill out. Fill it out, attach your copy of the doctors medical certificate then go home and recover. While you're recovering get a notebook and as best you can document every instance of harassment you can recall include the fact that you told someone about and that nothing was done (implies the employer condoned the behaviour).
Under industrial law you CAN be sacked whilst on Workers Comp but you continue to receive a percentage of your wages (not sure what it is in Victoria). In any case why anyone would want to continue working in a place that treats its workers as they treat you. The fact you've put up with it for 3 years indicates to me a strength of character which will put the lie to any counter-claim that you're a malingerer
You won't get any brownie points from anyone for feeling as you do for the so-called "nice fella' you mention.
Loyalty means nothing these days. As an aside, it occurs to me that they want you out of the place but don't wan to risk an unfair dismissal case or a payout.
Anyway i hope this is useful. I wouldn't bother with lawyers at this stage as the union or the Vic Department of Industrial Relations or Work Cover can give you plenty of guidance.
Good luck and don't put up with it any longer.
Cheers
Mike
Hi MickQuote:
Originally Posted by journeyman Mick
Technically I think you are right. Becoming a victim through the process is the problem IMO
cheeers
dazzler
Onyu Sheddie:2tsup:
I agree. Mike, that was outstanding.
Rgum old mate, I feel your pain. I feel it rippling through each of your posts. You are a good bloke caught in a bad situation. But you are fearful for the future--what if I lose this job? What will I do? Mate, you will do very well indeed. With an apparently relentless work ethic, you'll have no dramas getting a better position.
Don't give in to the the paralysis of fear. That's what these bast*rds are counting on. They believe you won't do anything because you are weak, but you are strong! After all, they can't kill you and they can't eat you. :wink: Everything after that is gravy. Listen to Mike and tell 'em to, well, you know . . . :cool:
Having said all that in my last post here:
30 odd years ago I was unemployed and too old for the CES to find me a job (their words - not mine)so I doorknocked a lot of places near my home and luckily snagged a job with a timber and hardware place. Though I'd just completed matriculation as an adult student and done 1 year of a B Sc degree (family illness killed my uni days off) all I could get was a place in the timber yard, racking, loading and preparing timber sales orders. There were 4 other staff in the draughty old timber warehouse. An old Pom near retirement, a little fat guy full of his own importance, a croation fork lift driver and the Fonz. The Fonz thought he was the ducks guts. He had one of those duck hairstyles, an Errol Flynn moustache, a swagger like middleweight boxer and an attitude to match. He always had a lit fag in his mouth and he "owned" the most comfortable chair in the lunch-room. Into this environment came I. On introductions the Fonz hit me with a gimlet stare and declared he was in charge and he owned the best chair. I laughed thinking he was joking. He got nasty real quick. Anyway for the next few weeks he needled me, hid my lunch, added cold milk to my coffee when the cup was half empty and left fag butts everywhere and blamed me for it. One day I was sitting in "his" chair on the phone to a customer and I noticed him standing in the doorway looking really peeved. I finished the call and he scruffed me by the shirt and pulled me out of the chair. I'd had enough. I said, Foxy (his last name was Fox), I'm tired of your infantile behaviour (the words I used) so why don't we go round the back and sort it out. And when you go home looking like a war casualty you'll only have yourself to blame you idiot d -head". I took my work shirt off and headed round the back of the timber store.
He didn't follow. He never carried on or made a threat again. In fact we ended up good mates. Unfortunately the fags killed him.
The other problem was that his behaviour made the other 2 guys stand-offish towards me because they didn't want to offend him.
The moral of the story - nip it in the bud and stand up for yourself. :wink:
I too would have nipped in the bud like many others here. I would have warned him once and then not feel guilty or responsible for what happens after that.
That's what I learnt in the playground at school when I was a bit younger. That's how I treat low life (people trying to get an unfair advantage by physical threat, legal threat, psychological threat etc.)
Not everyone takes this approach. Why don't they?
Perhaps they lack self confidence, courage, or perhaps it is just not in their nature to take this approach. Perhaps they believe the doom and gloom stories that they will never find another job.
I think that governments have (under sufferance) introduced laws to help those who for whatever reason don't deal with it themselves or to perhaps discourage these mongrels.
Our mate rgum for whatever reason has endured the bullying for three years which indicates he requires external assistance. I suppose that's why he started this thread.
If it is not in his character to behave in this manner, I don't consider him a wimp or a weak person.
We are all different and there are solutions out there for all of us to achieve the same result whether it be have the mongrels in casualty or court or perhaps neither.
What ever happened to the good old days when an errant apprentice could be hoyked by his overalls on the overhead gantry to hang for while; used bodily to mop out the drip trays; or gaffer taped over the fire hydrant!!?:D
We knew our place back then...:rolleyes:
rgum, you must hate getting up mornings. Thinners eh? Two can play at that. But I'd find another place... this has gone on too long to be nipped in the bud. It has gone to seed from what I hear. Soddit....
Not exactly nipping it in the bud since it's been going on for three years now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shedhand
It's obvious that a pecking order has been well and truly established. He shouldn't have to fight (physically) for his rights, and if he does, and loses the fisticuffs then it may only make things worse.
There's no easy solution to this, but there have been some good suggestions in this thread so far. It comes down to one of four choices as I see it.
1. Fight back on their own terms:
Pros: If you win, you might gain some respect and all will be sweet.
Cons: You might loose, and things may escalate.
2. Pursue it from a legal aspect.
Pros: You won't have to eat any more sh*t. You may get some compo.
Cons: You may not hold on to your job, and you may not want to work there any more with the increased animosity that will be going around. If word gets out then you may find it hard to get a job elsewhere.
3. Look for another job with a different mob that has workers with a bit more maturity.
Pros: You won't have to eat any more sh*t.
Cons: ?. Unless there's something about this place that attracts you, then I can't see any cons.
4. Cop it sweet:
Pros: ?
Cons: Escalating emotional trauma, and ongoing misery. IMO the least desirable option of the four.
It's a decision that you'll have to make yourself, but unless you reckon there's a chance that you'll get your head punched in, I'd just prepare to explode in a calculated manner the next time you face any harassment.
"LISTEN YOU BUNCH OF MOTHER@#$%ERS. I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS SH*T. I JUST WANT TO DO MY JOB IN PEACE. IF YOU HAVEN'T GOT THE MATURITY TO TREAT A FELLOW WORKER WITH THE RESPECT THAT HE DESERVES, THEN I'M OUTA HERE, AND I WON'T SHED ANY TEARS ABOUT NOT HAVING TO WORK WITH A BUNCH OF LOW LIFE'S ANYMORE"
If that doesn't work, then I'd just look for another job with some normal people, instead of a bunch of sadists.
If you like working there I think you would love working somewhere else where you are respected for your talent and work.
Take the initiative and find another job - no place is acceptable with what you have described and if you can't change the environment then change the place.
There are plenty of places these days that are occupied by respectful humans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boban
Don't worry Rgum, so is mine..................Its one on the hazzards of being self employed:-
Change jobs. No job is worth it to put up with sh?t like that. Your mental health needs to be looked after, no one has got the right to mess with your head. Staying there and fighting them wont make it better. Cut your loss and leave the loosers to themselves, just smile as you try to pick who will be bullied once you are gone! If you want a new start, head out West, we can't get workers of any description here for love or money.
Good luck and I hope you sort this out soon.
Well this is a bad situation for sure, you certainly have been given a LOT of good advice, so now the ball is in your court, I certainly hope that you can work it out, in a manner that pleases you, but I do think you have to do something.
I learned the hard way to deal with this crap when I was a kid. I played baseball when I was about 12, I was even able to make the starting line up, but we had one kid on our team, you know the type, big for his age, and his dad was a "_____head" and egged him on tormenting the other kids. The coach was a coward, and this kid could knock a baseball out of the park just about on demand.
He did crap like in practice he would kick you with his cleats when he ran by, or as you ran the bases he'd trip you and stuff. One day I came home, rather upset and my Dad asked what the problem was, I told him. He knew about it, he had talked to the coaches, with little effect, and my Dad had even confronted the other kid's dad, who basically told my Dad that I should grow some balls, or go home. My Dad told me that sometimes you just got to stick up for yourself, that he could not do it for me, I had to, he told me the next time the punk did something, hit him as hard as I could, right in the face, so I did.
The next practise, as I was running the bases, the punk tripped me as I rounded first, I got up of the ground, and while he was laughing and looking for approval to the others, I wound up and hit him with every ounce of strength I had, the look on this guys face was worth it, I don't think he had ever been hit in the face before, he was shocked, and I gave him a fat lip. It took him a moment to fight back, and by that time the coaches were on their way, so I did not get beat into the ground.
He NEVER bothered me again.
The really funny thing was, when we were 16 or so, we played on the same American football team, by this time, I'd more than caught up to him, I was a lineman, and he was a running back, I had nearly 6" on him a fair bit of weight. In practice, I got to hit him, and while they were always "clean" hits, I made them count, payback is a......... well you know! :D
Later, when I went to work, I got all the usual crap the new guy gets, "get me the left-handed pipe wrench" and the classic "go get me a sky hook" etc, I knew they were coming and I played along, but one day, a guy at work took my lunch. I complained about it to him, he told me to pound sand. Fine, I said, you will get yours, I went out to his truck, and removed one of the vacuum hoses to his carb, I knew his truck would barely run with that hose off. After work, I was sitting there on my bike and when he started his truck up, it ran so poorly, he could barely back up, and it would stall, he finally gave up, and opened the hood. I walked over and said "What's wrong?" he barely knew where the motor was in his truck, "Dunno, won't run right" :?
I told him to get in the truck and try it again, he did and I fiddled with this, and then with that, then I put the air hose back on, and the truck ran great! He was so happy, he asked what was wrong, I showed him the hose and said, it must have fallen off, it happens some times. He asked me what he owed me, I said "lunch".............
The next day, he brought me lunch, and we got along just fine, and no one messed with me either, I just did my job, and got paid.
Rgum, I guess your problem is well beyond this stage, which is too bad, but, when you do get away from these useless excused for men, make sure you nip anything in the bud at the next place you work, no one deserves this kind of crap.
Hoping for better days for you!
:2tsup:
Ozwinner......Felixe.....Lignum......mC2I1w.....Tamerize ( Wendy? )...Groggy....Echidna.....Gra....manoftalent....rufflyrustic.....Dazzler.....
SheddyH....Sawdustmike.
To ALL of you besides naming a few.
Gawwwwwwwd did I open a can of worms or WHAT! :C
I'm still humiliated daily. The boss comes over to me to joke around many time s a day. Sometimes its fun but he just will not have a serious conversation with me. I an idiot basically. It's frustrating. :~
I'm a kid in his eyes. No idea on how to do things and so on.
Then how come I'm in charge of setting and fitting and quality control? :?
Some panels crashed to the ground on Fri. The wind blew through the door and got'em. I closed that roller door. To avoid this. Then he opened it later . Then CRASH. Scratched expensive board panels. I got a yelling and he went nuts. " How can this happen on its own"? " It doesn't happen on it's own!!! " I couldn't even attempt to tell him ....he opened the door I closed to avoid a crash from the wind. It's ????????.
When I send some formal letters I will be an outcast as said. I will have to leave. I will be unpopular.
I will show the boss this site and thread.
My work does suffer and my confidence some days, to do my work go's down hill.
I stuff up things cause I'm a little nervous. Thankfully, this hardly happens or I'd be outa there. We all make the occaisional mistake.
They said it's hard to find another person to train because there's soooo much to know about cutting sinks in benchtops, fitting lights and blah blah. Soooo many little tricks you need to know.
I've learnt them all.
I also have to initiate and innovate on some jobs to get a favorable outcome in fitting something or making it look nice when its fitted. You know....cut it this way then nail it in then and not before, then bog it then shave of one side. blah blah. :doh:
Maybe I should go with the runny PVA in a sandwhich trick. ha he:no:
Anyway...It go's on. I don't want to go on about it here any more though.
We all want to get into our sheds and make beautiful sawdust right? :;
Thankyou all for your links and words. I'll take them on board. All of you are kind.
Tony......
Tony,
We're all waiting to hear the end result of you sending some letters.
Do keep us posted. I'm even going to hold off being angry at you until I see some result. And yes I do want to get angry. Your first posts made me angry enough to stop reading over my partner's shoulder and go and get a login of my own.
Grow a set of kahunas and do something about this. Choose any of the wise words of the guys here or think of something yourself but DO SOMETHING. How long do you plan to lay down and let these guys take the p outta you? (See now I'm angry. I used the p word) You're obviously a nice guy. Obviously intelligent, have a good work ethic and most likely talents and skills highly desirable in your industry. Don't believe for one minute that you wont get another job in a place that you'll be respected. I'm guessing that it's either just a fear of the unknown or believing these tossers you work for are respected by others in the industry, that makes you think you'll be 'unemployable'. I'm tipping that anyone worth working for will think your employers and their references are not worth a pinch of goatie poo. You'll get another job on your own merits.
Now get out there and get on with it! What are you waiting for?
Wife of frog,
(delivering a wifely type serve)
Seen WAY too much of this kind of crap in my working career.
The problem is NOT you. Go find another job with people who are reasonably respectful of other humans rather than scumbags who are so pathetic that they need to beat someone else up to feel worthwhile.
Get out before they beat you to death (mentally if not physically).
There is your answer, if they abuse you enough they save money and keep you around.Quote:
Then how come I'm in charge of setting and fitting and quality control?
GET OUT.
Tony,
I agree with Frog's wife and Fox3.
Apply for other jobs now, then when you get one, give notice and leave. If it was me I would just quit, then look. Don't put up with this S**t.
Cheers
TM
ps. i have had 15 jobs in the last 10 years:doh: so some people I know would say don't take my advice, but I am happy:rolleyes: and I like my current job:p
All of the above, Tony. You can't take pride in your work in this situation. Might be a bit awkward to find the new job while still employed, but the common wisdom is it's easier that way. When you've secured the new position, or while interviewing, advise the new employer that your responsibilities demand giving adequate notice; that should be good for a few points. Then, give about a week's less notice, and take the time to recover your wits.
Best of luck.
Joe
Tony, life's too short to stay there, mate.
Move on. It IS better out there, the biggest fear is that of change.
Sounds like it is beyond physical retaliation, you need to decide whether to go down the compo route or just leave & find something else.
Regards...................Sean
Rgum. Check your messages.
Cheers
I appologise if your sick of this ongoing episode clogging up your forum.
Simply ....you dont read any further. If your not immpressed with my crap, dont read any further and don't tell me please. :o
Workplace harrassement. Or is it me?
Mitch?????....thankyou for all your advice.
I had another incident at work...... again! :~
Right now I'm fumming.
Please tell me if I overeacted. Really!. I'd like your thoughts.
All taken with pride intact....:U
Panel saw person...who tries to cause me trouble nearly every day, was at it again. His behaviour toward me has been quite nice and civil for two and a bit weeks. But!!!!!
Late afternoon today. I was cleaning upper part of a cab. Soon to go and start making kick rails for nxt job going out.
He sais " Boss sais to go and start on this job now cause your wandering around doing bugger all".
I replied " Why does he think I'm doing bugger all " ? That was all.
He then returns to the boss, other side of the factory and sais" Tony said that was uncalled for". Knowing that boss man will get very angry thinking I'm being disrespectfull and march on over to confront me.
Last two weeks boss has been ?????? with me and barely talks to me cause I told him off for harrassing me. He hates that. It's better that way cause I don't get harrassed. :U
I mean, I didn't hold back. I told him well and truely. I did that during lunch when he kicks me in my shins as he passes out the door, to come out into the sun just before the bell rings, to go back to work.
It means to him that I won't let him have his fun.
Anyway....I over heard panel saw person return to boss and say " He sais that was uncalled for", so I marched on over to tell boss man, " I did not say that " and then I walked up to idiot and fogged up his eyes and waved my finger at his face. Yelling ofcourse. Swearing too. :no:
Boss man sais " I didn't come over and say anything did I?, So get on with your work" !
BUT! If I didn't come over....what do you think he would have thought?????? How dare he respond to me like that. And march on over. Right???????
I told new CEO who also gave me grief this morn and said , " I wanna talk after work".
I was berrated for yelling and told, " if it's about so and so ( panel saw person) , I don't wanna know about it". Walks off.
Now I'm really fumming.
This coming from a CEO who previously said to me.....3 .....times that so and so will try to F me up with my work. Meaning miss lead me into making a stuff up with a cab or bench top or something.
So then, he sais he will try to f me up then DO something!!!!!!!!
I can't leave now till all my debts are paid off. No more car debt....credit card or other stuff. Woo hoo. I'm free. February , March o8.
I will be going down the legal action path. Logistics to be thought through soon. you know....leave after finding new job then action....blah blah.
Again....appologies if you sick of this as I am.
I will not be treated like this. Will not!
Thankyou......Tony. Phew! .......:C Cooling dwn now. :roll:
Tony,
All power to you, remember document.. Write it all down NOW...
Good,
but start looking for another job now.
You might not need to wait till next year
See what Echidna says?
He knows about this stuff.
Don't even think about legal action! It will just take all you money and what's left of your spirit. What are you going to achieve? What possible damages are there if you haven't been fired, if you left of your own accord after taking notes for a year?
I don't want to rain on your parade, but you CAN'T win, some things aren't fair. DON'T shout. DON'T swear. NEVER be aggressive. They can take notes too you see.
Why not make an appointment after work to see the boss, and ask him how you can sort it out? Just tell him you want to keep working there, but you don't know how to fix the problem. (Make careful notes of that too! :wink: )
Good luck with it, but keep looking for another job.
Cheers,
P
.
.... or you could take ozwinner to work for a day!
:D :D :D
P
Sorry, but either they would be dead by now, or I would be.Quote:
Originally Posted by rgum
Why put up with any crap from anyone?
I always live by the rule live, and let live.
Leave me alone, and Ill leave you alone, anyone who harasses someone else, then complains about the treatment they receive for what they have done are cowards.
Once someone starts on me they either better be good at fighting or good at running. :U
If more people stood up and fought, win or lose, there would be non of this crap.
Freakin do gooders have brought this on, not too long ago if you had a dispute it was sorted out man to man, now people are too afraid to say anything in case they upset the other party.
Step up to the line and sort it out.:((
You will find most of the bullies that back stab you or intimidate you are nothing more than chicken tihs when it come down to toe to toe fighting. :((
Bring it one....:2tsup::2tsup:
Available for parties, weddings, and work break ups by appointment.
Al :U
Tony, do you think you should also look at your attitude or let me say more neutrally, the way you percieve and react to situations, life etc? I'm not saying there aren't sphincters out there, but I do know now that in my life many of the people I thought were asreholes were not. Either I misjudged and over reacted to a completely innocent situation or people picked up on this and deliberately had a bit of fun - which at the time wasn't all the much fun. All I'm saying is that many of my apparent external problems were really my own internal problems. Lifes a short journey mate -try and enjoy the ride. Goodluck:)
Cheers
Michael
Mr. Gum.... I suspect that they are trying to give you a hint.
You can take it or you can turn mean & nasty.
I don't think you are the mean & nasty type.
Find a new job ASAP.
Your own reactions are not exactly agression free, it might just be that you are part of the problem. Pre empting the bosses reaction shows in part you are pre judging and in part very sensitive to what was a conceived threat at best. Perhaps you have good cause but you either walk after finding a new job, or talk to the boss and suggest you find a way to work together.
Perhaps its time you both drew a line in the sand and agreed to make a new start with some understanding on the boundries of behaviour you should both maintain.
Fix yourself first otherwise you will just take the same issues to the next job should you meet a similar problem as you are experiencing currently.
John.
Do something they won't expect........... go up to panel saw guy one morning and kiss him squarely on the lips. . And when he calls you a poof.....grab his jewels and twist em a couple of times....... and...........and don't forget to write it all down.
probably not a good idea trying that until he's off the panel saw though eh.
Hey Jake, is this how you sorted out your problem with the smartasre appie when you first started. :D
no. not exactly. But it be fun watching someone else attempting it eh. :UQuote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers
Tony,
I have gone back and re-read your other thread and now this one. It appears you have changed your reaction from one of passive acceptance to confrontational. Doesn't matter, mate. Too little too late. Might have worked in the beginning but now it's just a big distraction to your boss, the CEO, and everyone, including you. Besides, shouting up the boss (if you did) is a one-way ticket out.
Now nobody recommends that you become homeless or a bludger, but if you are not actively seeking another job right now, today, this minute, this second, then mate I don't think we can help you. February my asre. Do you want to get up every morning sick? Shorten your life by years? Hell, I'd sell tools at Bunnies first. :oo:
You seem a nice bloke who has gotten into a nasty situation with no hope of remediation. They obviously want you to leave, for whatever reason. But you may need them for a reference, so steady on--don't burn all your bridges, you may need to cross them again.
Consider as well some counseling to help you deal with your apparent anxiety over leaving. The current situation is FUBAR and can't be fixed. :)
So... You've been there Bob?Quote:
Originally Posted by Honorary Bloke
Tony, in all seriousness, unless you have a bundle of money tied up in leave credits, get out now. Whether its harrassment or paranoia is irrelevant. Start looking for somewhere else yesaterday. It would be my suggestion to you that you are now something that needs relocating without the company transgressing the unfair dismissal laws.
LGS
Hmm, time for a new tactic.
When something happens, don't say anything, don't react, just freeze up and glare at them and make sure they see your eyes. Then after 10 seconds, get out your Notebook and pen and write down what happened. MAKE SURE THEY SEE YOU WRITE Stuff DOWN!!!
Next, investigate Vicarious Liability, get some info sheets on it and leave them in prominent places, oh gee whiz, why not the CEO's intray.
Point out this other fellow seems to have heaps of time to watch what your doing.
If he has soooooo much time up his sleeve maybe he could give you a hand or someone else and that way it gets orders out the door quicker.
Why is he such a lap dog of the boss doing all his running back and forth does he get treats when he does good (Roll over Rover, sit beg good dog). You might even take in a dog collar and leash and suggest he be tethered to his tools as he keeps wandering off.
If the bosses don't listen their not interested in their company's profits and why he's spending time causing trouble shyte stirring
Why would you want to work somewhere like that?
I did a stint in a joinery in Sydney and I was at the bottom of the pecking order because I was the only guy who wasn't either an apprentice or a qualified carpenter. They like to have their fun, and you just shrug it off or laugh with 'em. But the bosses son was a nasty little ????. He spat on me once when I made a remark to him he didn't like. So a mate who was a Ramset rep got me a labouring job on a building site for another $50 a week. There were a holes on that site too, but I didn't have to be nice to them because they weren't the bosses son!
All this talk of legal action and whatever, I just say get the hell out.
I can't beleive how restrained all the answers to this tortouos whinging has been.
Sorry rgum I'm not that sort of person - personally I think you deserve a kick in the back side you weak ....
Get a life, grow a spine and take responsibility for your own life and stop being one of life's little victims.
You have had good advise already ...either take that advise up and do something positive or stop whining.:((