Ethics - is it OK?

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Originally Posted by Exador

If it's crap, yes. I assume you're referring to a comment of mine and as I said, the product was good, so no need to return it.

Personally, I reckon the 30 day return warranty is a good statement of confidence in one's product and it occasionally prompts a sale. Nothing wrong with that.

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Exador, I was referring to your post:

'I needed a biscuit joiner on the weekend and Carbatech aren't open on a Sunday, so down to Bunnings I go and come home with a shiny new GMC 1200W model, thinking "I'll take it back next week, tell them I'm not happy and trundle down to Carbatech". Problem is - it's too bloody good to do that so, sorry Carbatech.'

By the way it is written it is very clear you never intended to keep it, and only when you found it useful did you decide to keep it, but there is no doubt this was to be used and returned - a free loan. If you meant that you would try it and return it if it was no good, you did not say it. If I am wrong then I apologise, but I am going by what you wrote.

What about if you buy a drill ie $69.00 hammer drill with a "home warranty" use the crap out of it at work then take it back causes it died. I think this just as bad.

I did return a tool once after i used it but it was a piece of crap and was not a cheapy either, plan to buy new one next time is required. (different brand)

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Originally Posted by Sturdee

My experience has been that not enough people claim their rightful entitlements and have paid too much instead of claiming extras. :D :D :D


Peter.

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I reckon your probably right, but as an example I know someone who claimed a Toyota and a Corolla in the same tax year - not me, I should point out.

Who else hasn't exaggerated their tax claims - those log books just seem to fill themselves up beyond 5000km :) And continuing the theme, what is the difference between bodging a tax claim and returning a used item, after use? Just an hypothetical at this stage :)

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Originally Posted by Eddie Jones

What a bluddy stupid question.

What answer were you expecting? Yeah, fine, stuff honesty!
Get real mate.

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I guess I expected some discussion, which is happening, not someone to attack the fact the question was asked in the first place. I've seen in other forums people answer yes, and argue their case. You are the first I've seen that has nothing of value to add and have been purely negative.


BTW, one person in the poll has voted yes.

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Originally Posted by namtrak

And continuing the theme, what is the difference between bodging a tax claim and returning a used item, after use? Just an hypothetical at this stage :)

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There's a world of difference.

Nobody compells you to buy the tool in the first place

Taxation is theft.

The ability to return faulty goods is part of our legislation. For a company to try and snare customers with the " 30 day satisfaction" are asking for trouble even though they would have assumed that the average good joe would be drawn to their lower price and at best get the market share from the weekend warriors. I have know of a few cases where people have bought items like portable generators etc., took them away for a weekend and returned them claiming they did not get enough power to do the job etc.
These low lives are a burden on all of us by increased costs and the destruction of trust between retailer and customer. I have had a situation where I wanted to buy a particular tool but was apprehensive because of the cost. I was invited to take it home and try it out. It did such a good job that I bought it even though it was more than I was initially prepared to spend. I must admit that I knew the retailer reasonably well for him to trust me.
Those who deliberately "buy" these tools and return them once the job is done are really only social parasites on the community and business. It would be much simpler if there was a no return policy for items that are 100% functional, and return only those that fall within the warranty parameters. I read that some one bought a tool and found it to be absolutley wrong for the job and that happens. Before you leave the store you need to establish if there is a return policy for cases like this, or do more reasearch in a forum like this to get a multiple opinion before you buy.

re original question, if you have to ask "is it ethical?" the next question would be "who taught me my ethics ?":(

obviosly the answer is no.

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Originally Posted by Bodgy

Taxation is theft.

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Bodge, Taxation WITHOUT REPRESENTATION is Theft. If you get taxed for a worthwhile purpose (such as improving hospitals or water quality its fine, if you get taxed to fund the local council slush fund thats wrong...)

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Originally Posted by ernknot

The ability to return faulty goods is part of our legislation. For a company to try and snare customers with the " 30 day satisfaction" are asking for trouble even though they would have assumed that the average good joe would be drawn to their lower price and at best get the market share from the weekend warriors.

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I don't think it is a matter of "snaring" customers, more a matter of aleviating their concerns about buying a cheaper tool of an (then) unknown brand.

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Originally Posted by ernknot

I have know of a few cases where people have bought items like portable generators etc., took them away for a weekend and returned them claiming they did not get enough power to do the job etc.

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The real test is: in returning it, have they bought a bigger one to cope with their needs.

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Originally Posted by Gaza

What about if you buy a drill ie $69.00 hammer drill with a "home warranty" use the crap out of it at work then take it back causes it died. I think this just as bad.

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Absolutely, and in fact the GMC warranty does not cover you, so if you have used it for trade, you are not entitled to the warranty. There is an exception: Platinum GMC tools are warrantied for trade use.

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Originally Posted by Groggy

Exador, I was referring to your post:

'I needed a biscuit joiner on the weekend and Carbatech aren't open on a Sunday, so down to Bunnings I go and come home with a shiny new GMC 1200W model, thinking "I'll take it back next week, tell them I'm not happy and trundle down to Carbatech". Problem is - it's too bloody good to do that so, sorry Carbatech.'

By the way it is written it is very clear you never intended to keep it, and only when you found it useful did you decide to keep it, but there is no doubt this was to be used and returned - a free loan. If you meant that you would try it and return it if it was no good, you did not say it. If I am wrong then I apologise, but I am going by what you wrote.

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I did fully expect to return it, as I fully expected it to be sub-standard, but I needed the tool and I was prepared to take the chance. the chance paid off and I actually paid more for the GMC that I would have for the Carbatech tool. I should also say that if the GMC unit had been the 850W unit that was on display in Bunnings, I would have walked out without it, simply because it looked like a piece of junk. I can see how you could misinterpret what I said originally though - I perhaps wasn't as explicit as I could have been. Still, GMC can't complain, they sold a tool.

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Originally Posted by Bodgy

Mate, if you send this to the GMC marketing people, they will probably send you a free tool.

What you've just written completely vindcates their marketing strategy.

Gotta admire them!

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I agree. Their warranty is exceptional and their tools are getting much better. Still a bit too much of the gimmick in some of them, but the biscuit joiner in question is a fine, easy to use, fit-for-purpose tool. The only thing I can really criticise is that it could do with a soft-start, as the starting torque is enough to screw it off line when machining into large panels away from the edge (when the top plate can't be used), but I'm sure every other unit out there is similar and it's just a matter of doing final alignment with the thing running.

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Originally Posted by Gumby

bluddy (sic) stupid response :cool:

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Please explain why you think my response was stupid. Did you really think anyone was going to defend being morally bankrupt?

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Originally Posted by Eddie Jones

Please explain why you think my response was stupid. Did you really think anyone was going to defend being morally bankrupt?

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Since you called my original question "bluddy stupid", I'll answer.

Your response:

• Did nothing to add to the thread and only sought to aggravate others.
• Assumed in advance that no-one would argue the case - without knowing (in fact, one person who responded does think it is ok).
• Did not allow for the fact that the original question did not require anyone to "defend" anything, only to select an option from an anonymous poll - what have they got to lose?

If you have nothing of value to add, why waste your time being negative? Just ignore the thread and move on.

Pretty sad day when someone cannot express an honest opinion on a forum without being called negative and told to move on.

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Originally Posted by echnidna

Pretty sad day when someone cannot express an honest opinion on a forum without being called negative and told to move on.

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But it's ok to call someone else's questions "bluddy stupid"? It was an honest question.

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Originally Posted by echnidna

Pretty sad day when someone cannot express an honest opinion on a forum without being called negative and told to move on.

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even sadder day when an 'honest opinion' is delivered with such malice.

Even sadder state of events when Gumby doesn't make fun of Blokes taking 'emslves way too seriously:p IMHO that is;)

Yeah, those were the days :D But I've reformed. ;)

Plasticine does that

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Originally Posted by Stuart.

Sadly, as discussed in the other thread, it is exactly this attitude of buying something then returning it after the weekend (a free weekend hire) that has cost GMC a small fortune,

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Not an acceptable practice at all - if something had to be termed un-Australian then surely this goes against "A fair go for all"

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Originally Posted by Stuart.

as there are a LOT of people who do it, and the reason that the 30 day satisfaction guarantee will not be available from GMC in the near future.

So it is reassuring to see that there is a general consensus against it, but sadly, it is not a true reflection of modern society.

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Have never met any of these people but I would like to enlighten them as to what their selfishness mean to others.

Bob

You lot don't reckon the gurus at GMC weren't aware that there were people out there that would take advantage did you?

C'mon, these blokes are smart, real smart. They knew exactly what they were doing, how to do it, why to do it, and when to stop doing it.

I have been to an auction where they sell faulty/returned goods back to the retailers, all be it, I have only been to one.

The prices received for these goods at this auction, were generally 40-60% of the retail prices as far as I could tell.

I believe the manufacturers are not losing all that much if these prices are the norm.

Cheers.

No way

I've got to be honest here and say that I inadvertently did this the other day.

I bought one of their framing guns for a one off job I was doing. The way I saw it was that it would get the job done ( I included the price of the gun in the quote to the customer) and then hang around in the shed waiting for the next job.

As it turned out, the safety lockout often didn't reset after firing the nail and removing the gun from the timber. Sometimes the nose needed to be pushed into the timber 4 or 5 times to get it to fire. It was also pretty stiff even after oiling so it made skew nailing a pain in the ####.

I persevered with it for a few days and got the job done and went back to bunnings with it. After explaining the problem they offered me a new gun or a refund.

I thought about it and then said bugger it and asked for the refund.

If it had worked faultlessly I wouldn't have been back in Bunnings with it but given the circumstances I didn't feel too bad about getting a refund for it even though it had been used on the job.

The cash did however go towards a new Hitachi NT65 C bradder (such a nice tool :D ) that will get a heap more use than the framing gun would have.

Edit: As for the members sending reddies and calling me a crook for this post, surely this is what the 30 day satisfaction guarantee is all about. It's not about taking it home and looking at it in the box for a month. It's about taking the tool, using it and deciding if it's up to scratch. It wasn't... I took them up on their guarantee. Simple as that.

If you are going to call me a crook, do it in the forum where everyone can see it and we can argue about it in the public forum.

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Originally Posted by Groggy

Since you called my original question "bluddy stupid", I'll answer.

Your response:

• Did nothing to add to the thread and only sought to aggravate others.
• Assumed in advance that no-one would argue the case - without knowing (in fact, one person who responded does think it is ok).
• Did not allow for the fact that the original question did not require anyone to "defend" anything, only to select an option from an anonymous poll - what have they got to lose?

If you have nothing of value to add, why waste your time being negative? Just ignore the thread and move on.

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It seems logical to me that anyone who would waste electrons by asking such a question is either (1) very bored or (2) is seeking group approval because he does that sort of thing himself. Wonder which?

OK now I will do as you suggest, ignore this thread and move on.

You waste your share of electrons too.

Please close the door on your way out :cool:

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Originally Posted by dalejw

As it turned out, the safety lockout often didn't reset after firing the nail and removing the gun from the timber. Sometimes the nose needed to be pushed into the timber 4 or 5 times to get it to fire. It was also pretty stiff even after oiling so it made skew nailing a pain in the ####.

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Clearly defective and dangerous. Needed to be returned for your own safety.


Peter.

MMMM Bought a GMC Compressor the other day and was casually informed verbally that bunnings dont do warranty returns on gmc stuff any more.
On the packaging writ large is the 30 day satifaction / 2 yr replacement jargon plus "return it to the place of purchase".

Under the trade practises act they could not refuse to take it back.

Any one who buys or has bought a tool with the intent of returning it after a weekends work has done all of us a disservice and stuffed up a great consumer oriented sales policy. A policy that got many of us into tools we would normally not have purchased at a price hitherto unavailable.

To all those who have done it
!@$#$#@!#$%$%$%$^&$$#&%$&**(_(

In future I will be looking at whether it is worth getting into a major hassle with gmc plus the risk of getting stuck with a piece of crap tool. In other words I would be looking at paying more for a tool that has good reputation for quality instead of taking a punt on the cheapie. It was good while it lasted.

I have acually noticed things arent quite as friendly at bunnies lately and also noted that a few things they used to sell are no longer avalable.
IE CMT router Bits and brad point drill bits to mention just two. I have found myself at the local Mitre 10 and total tools a lot lately.

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Originally Posted by dalejw

I bought one of their framing guns for a one off job I was doing. As it turned out, the safety lockout often didn't reset after firing the nail and removing the gun from the timber. Sometimes the nose needed to be pushed into the timber 4 or 5 times to get it to fire. It was also pretty stiff even after oiling so it made skew nailing a pain in the ####.

I persevered with it for a few days and got the job done and went back to bunnings with it. After explaining the problem they offered me a new gun or a refund.

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There is a huge difference between the pre-meditated act of fraud/deception and what you did. Your actions were precisely what the 30 day satisfaction policy was all about. You were dissatisfied and got your money back for a sub-standard and somewhat dangerous tool. Why would you want one of these given your experience.

Had your intent from the start been to return it under all circumstances for a refund then my comments would have been somewhat different.

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Originally Posted by Markw

There is a huge difference between the pre-meditated act of fraud/deception and what you did. Your actions were precisely what the 30 day satisfaction policy was all about. You were dissatisfied and got your money back for a sub-standard and somewhat dangerous tool. Why would you want one of these given your experience.

Had your intent from the start been to return it under all circumstances for a refund then my comments would have been somewhat different.

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Yep, that's what I thought. Didn't think it put me in the catagory of a crook.

Other things I do put me in that catagory but I keep them to myself :D

If there is one tool you definately want to be sure when it's going to work and when it's not it's something firing 90mm nails :rolleyes:

Dalejw,
The nail gun problems, especially with the safety feature, sound like a warranty return, so with or without the satisfaction guarantee you would have to return it as the faults clearly make it an unsafe and unsuitable product.
I have returned tools to Bunnings, a crappy ozito stapler (what was I thinking:eek: ) and a terrible ozito belt sander that the tool guy convinced me to buy instead of the makita; it was a piece of s$$t, the plate was not flat, so I got my money back and went to trade tools instead (what was I thinking:eek: :eek: )

For the record my answer is NO!:D

Whilst this is, at best, only peripheral to this thred, I'd like to put things in perspective, at least from my view.

I have, or had had, the following GMC tools, all bought on 'special', as is my wont:

Big 235 circular saw - Ripper
Jack Hammer Drill - Only used 3 times, lug driving the bit in hammer mode sheared, returned full refund. Product now discontinued.
1200 watt router - Ripper
Powered router table - POS, nuff said
Dowel joiner - Average, but works
Steel cut off saw - Ripper
9" angle grinder - Absolutely ripper
Tile cutting saw bench - Sort of OK
Compressor - works as to specs (shoudl've got a bigger one)

I would not have bought the above without the 3 yr warranty. The 30 day return helped too, but it was the warranty that was most operant. Trade Practices says you may return goods that do not do what they are sold to do.

gmc tools I bought:
Tiny Portable compressor - ripper used it for 18 months stilll goes
1200 watt router - good tool use it heaps
Jig saw - works fine no complaints
Drill press [small one] - POS had it replaced got a refund on #2
18 watt drill - damn good tool
table saw - crappy and downright dangerous - took it back
40 litre compressor - just got it seems to work fine.

and i am pretty fussy about tools....
bought 7 tools by gmc and kept 5.

The keepers are great tools for the price but the returns were totally POS

Well, the thread seems to have pretty much run its course by now. Some interesting comments throughout.

The question never related specifically to GMC, it was very general in nature and was meant to cover those people who deliberately buy something and intend (before even arriving at the store to buy) to return an item for a refund even if it performs well and has no flaws. In short, a free hire.

I know there are some who have no qualms whatsoever doing this, stating the retailer or manufacturer know what is going on and if they don't like it they should not offer such a warranty.

Others, myself included, see the warranty as there only to be used if the tool does not perform to spec, is damaged or does not meet the stated role it is built for.

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Originally Posted by old_picker

gmc tools I bought:
Tiny Portable compressor - ripper used it for 18 months stilll goes
1200 watt router - good tool use it heaps
Jig saw - works fine no complaints
Drill press [small one] - POS had it replaced got a refund on #2
18 watt drill - damn good tool
table saw - crappy and downright dangerous - took it back
40 litre compressor - just got it seems to work fine.

and i am pretty fussy about tools....
bought 7 tools by gmc and kept 5.

The keepers are great tools for the price but the returns were totally POS

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agreed, i love the planer thicknesser ($199) belt and disk sander, circular saw, used for docking to length of long pieces so i can bring them into workshop. the only gmc tool ive returned under warranty was a whipper snipper and that was because it was a gutless piece of sheet.