Help-Mouse ate my fujitsu split system head aircon electronics

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Originally Posted by journeyman Mick

Learner, you are making assumptions about the system and all
the people that work in it based on your one experience.

Do you know for a fact that all installers follow the wrong practices and have done so for years?

Like I said earlier, if you can show that the problem was caused by the installers not following the manufacturer's recomendations then they should be liable for repairs. You could/should have followed it up via consumer affairs in your state, or failing that, get a solicitor to write a letter to the company threatening legal action.

I find it extremely offensive that you pronounce that all air con installers in Australia do a bad job when clearly, you have no way of measuring this. Only a narrow bigotted mind passes judgement on an entire group of people based on a single experience with one person in the group. Oh, and in case you're wondering, I'm not an air-con installer.

Mick

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I have spoken to countless aircon installers and they are following the same crappy methods of installation.

Here is what the fujitsu manual says

1. Use a vacuum pump for R407 exclusively.
- No aircon installer had an exclusive vacuum pump for R407

2. Use a clean guage manifold and charging hose for R407 exclusively
-Not followed

3. Use the wall cap provided (like a rubber grommet) for through hole pipe connection on the indoor wall side
-Most installers discard this grommet and do not make a proper circular hole of the dimensions specified in the manual. They make a hole of a size they are used to.

4.Use cloth tape provided by fujitsu. It is like a bandage of special material for the joint heat insulation between indoor and outdoor pipe .
- Discarded by installers. They use crap ducting tape.

5. Fill the gap between the outside wall pipe hole and the pipe with sealer putty so that water and wind cannot blow in.
- They just cover the outdoor hole with outdoor capping. No putty sealing.

If you want more information on crap jobs by SCREWDRIVER AIRCON TECHNICIANS JUST ASK.

THANKS

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Originally Posted by Learner

I have spoken to countless aircon installers..............

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I find that a bit hard to believe. I mean there's what, 20 million people in Australia and I'd assume that only some of them are A/C installers. Let's say there's 20,000 AC installers in Australia. I can count to 20,000 so it's not a "countless" number of installers. Just make a guess now, how many installers did you talk to, 5, 25, 50? So why did you expend all this energy questioning them? You might have been better served exploring and pursuing ways of recovering the repair costs you incurred due to an incorrect installation.

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Originally Posted by Learner

1. Use a vacuum pump for R407 exclusively.
- No aircon installer had an exclusive vacuum pump for R407
..............

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Are you sure that Fujitsu specifies that this model A/C can only be evacuated by a pump that is designed exclusively for it and no other model or brand? :? I would suggest that the manual is a poor translation of Japanese and what they mean is that a vacuum pump is to be used to the exclusion of any other method (ie purging the lines by gassing them). A vacuum pump is a vacuum pump is a vacuum pump. As long as it's got the correct connections and gets down to the correct vacuum pressure (or whatever the term is) I can't see that it would make any difference.


You're trying to make out that you've carried out an in depth investigation into the practices of the majority of A/C installers in Australia or a representive sample of them so that you can slander an entire group of people. You've had a bad experience and lost money due to a combination of misfortune and poor practices, maybe it's just Karma. :roll:

Mick

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Originally Posted by journeyman Mick

Are you sure that Fujitsu specifies that this model A/C can only be evacuated by a pump that is designed exclusively for it and no other model or brand? :? I would suggest that the manual is a poor translation of Japanese and what they mean is that a vacuum pump is to be used to the exclusion of any other method (ie purging the lines by gassing them). A vacuum pump is a vacuum pump is a vacuum pump. As long as it's got the correct connections and gets down to the correct vacuum pressure (or whatever the term is) I can't see that it would make any difference.


You're trying to make out that you've carried out an in depth investigation into the practices of the majority of A/C installers in Australia or a representive sample of them so that you can slander an entire group of people. You've had a bad experience and lost money due to a combination of misfortune and poor practices, maybe it's just Karma. :roll:

Mick

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The manual was written by experts . It is 100 percent correct english and acurate technically. The use of an exclusive vacuum pump is based on scientific principles of contamination or mixing of different substances which must be avoided.

Here is another sentance from the manual

"Use a vacuum pump for R407C exclusively.Using the same vacuum pump for different refrigerant may damage the vacuum pump or the unit."

Any other questions please?

Learner your post has come to my attention.

Are you asking for help or have you another reason for your post?

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Originally Posted by jow104

Learner you post has come to my attention.

Are you asking for help or have you another reason for your post?

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Unfortunately no one is willing to help when you have a big bill for repairs. You are basically on your own and not covered under any sort of warranty or insurance etc..

Learner,

from what you've posted Fujitsu are not specifying a pump specifically for that model of AC unit but for the type of refrigerant gas Perhaps there's other stuff in there you've not comprehended correctly.

Some more questions:
1. How much effort did you put into resolving the original issue you had? (ie solve the problem rather than playing the blame game)
2.How many A/C installers did you quiz about their work practices? C'mon a guess will do, you must have some idea.
3.How much time did this take you?
4.What reasons did you give for polling all these A/C installers for your in depth questions regarding exclusive pumps for your model of AC?
5.Didn't any of them explain to you that you were mistaken in believing that Fujitsu required a vacuum pump for exclusive use on your particular model AC and no other?
6. How did you know that they weren't using a clean guage manifold and charging hose? Did you ask, or was it observation?
7. Do you know how to tell if these items were clean?
8. How do you know that "Most installers discard this grommet and do not make a proper circular hole of the dimensions specified in the manual. They make a hole of a size they are used to"? Have you asked most installers? have you gone around and measured the size holes they drill? You must have been a very busy boy the last few weeks.
9. How do you know that "most" installers use duct tape rather than the tape provided by Fujitsu"?
10. How do you know what's under the capping of all those AC units? You are right in that they wouldn't have used "putty". Putty is a mixture of whiting and linseed oil used to fit glass in frames in traditional style glazing. It's highly unlikely anyone would use it to stop holes for an AC installation. They'd be more likely to use expanding polyurethane foam, acrylic gapfiller or polyurethane sealant.


Mick

Learner,

Mick is quite right in what he points out. You have had a bad experience but that does not give you the right to go off like some brainless hot head and blame every installer in the country. I am sure there are many good installers, and I have had no problems with anything I have had installed. Stick to the problem you have with the installer you ended up with and you have my sympathy but to slander an entire industry on the basis of what appears to be a single experience makes me wonder if you have any idea about the subject you are pontificating on.

John:~

Hey Learner, you've been moaning and carrying on like a pork chop for two weeks now. But I'm not sure if you are asking for advice or just trying to impress us with how much you know about installing one model of airconditioner.

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Unfortunately no one is willing to help when you have a big bill for repairs. You are basically on your own and not covered under any sort of warranty or insurance etc..

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Sadly, it doesn't look as though you know the right people.

Two weeks ago you were given some advice that you should be covered by insurance. Did you make a claim? Or were you too busy talking to countless air conditioning installers?

Don't tell me you didn't have insurance? Perhaps the well-written insurance manual didn't advise that you need that in case of rodent attack?

How do you know the mouse came from outside? From my experience it's more likely that it was hanging around in the wall cavity, but you never know. If the job was so shoddy, and you knew it was because you've obviously fully supervised the bloke what he was installing it, why didn't you pull him up when he was doing it?

Why did you pay for it?

Hey, you've had a bit of hard luck. How about getting on with life and fixing it and forgetting about it? You could have had it fixed in a day I'm sure.

Cheers,

P

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Originally Posted by Learner

Unfortunately no one is willing to help when you have a big bill for repairs. You are basically on your own and not covered under any sort of warranty or insurance etc..

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Have you tried helping yourself yet?
Have you contacted your state's department of consumer affairs or its equivalent?
Did you write a letter to the installers pointing out that the reason the mouse was able to access the unit's electronics and damage them, was due to their installation practice and that you would hold them liable for repair costs?
Did you get a solicitor to write a letter of demand?
Did you try to make a claim on your home insurance?

Sometimes having a bitch and moan to get things off your chest is good, but if that's all you do rather than trying to identify and solve the problem, well you're going to be an unhappy chappy who blames everyone else for his own unhappiness.
If you want to blame anyone then blame the original installer, don't blame the entire industry. That's the sort of thinking that gives the world racism and terrorism.

Mick

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Originally Posted by journeyman Mick

That's the sort of thinking that gives the world racism and terrorism.

Mick

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And the Aquaducts! Don't forget the Aquaducts!

P
:D:D:D

are you sure it wasnt a Rat?

Learner,

Quite often installation manuals are written for global use and don't necessarily comply with the relevant codes of practice. Not so much in higher end units but it still happens.
It doesn't matter what vac pump is used. You do however need to change the oil in the pump before pulling down a system. If a pump can pull a sub 100 micron vacuum, it doesnt matter.

Also it makes no difference if its a 407c or 410a system. I can explain simply. 407c is just 410a with a 52%blend of 134a to bring the pressures down to the similar characteristics of r22. HFC refrigerants need POE, and a lot of new r22 systems also carry the same oil. really the vac pump oil should be changed for every pull down.

Now with system evacuation, the minimum vacuum required for a deep pulldown is 1000 microns. I doubt any tradesmen would go any less than 500. I personally aim for 100 microns. Whether or not a pump has been used for another refrigerant isn't a factor.

It is true though, you need one set of gauges for POE lubricated systems, and another for mineral oil systems.

The fabric tape supplied with most splitties is rubbish. proper UV stabilised thermal tape is a better product, it costs extra but is worth it.

BTW I'm a refrigeration/airconditioning mechanic, not an installer. i spent more than the 5 days at tafe that it takes to get an arctick licence.

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Originally Posted by Timmo

BTW I'm a refrigeration/airconditioning mechanic, not an installer. i spent more than the 5 days at tafe that it takes to get an arctick licence.

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Well spoken Timmo.

Don't all installers have to be techs? Or is there a dodgy way round it?

P
:wink:

Electricians and plumbers can get a license to instal and commission split systems up to 18kw with a 1 week course. you can also do a course for a restricted license up to 18kw installation. not sure on the details but its on the arctick website. www.arctick.org.

I can whinge and moan about them having a license, but in reality, these trades are over regulated anyway. Me holding a license does not make me a better tradesman, it just makes me insurable.

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Originally Posted by Timmo

Learner,


The fabric tape supplied with most splitties is rubbish. proper UV stabilised thermal tape is a better product, it costs extra but is worth it.

BTW I'm a refrigeration/airconditioning mechanic, not an installer. i spent more than the 5 days at tafe that it takes to get an arctick licence.

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They do not use any thermal UV tape. Just duct tape