replacing a beam???

Hi there,

firstly let me say i've found this forum to be very informative and other people's questions have sustained me for the past few months... but this is one i need some advice on :D

i've recently purchased a circa 1890 qlder and the kitchen has a bad case of the shudders. walk around in there and it creaks and groans and generally makes scary noises.

so i went and had a look underneath at the stumps to see if the ones around the kitchen had sunk or rotted or similar... turns out the main beam which im guessing SHOULD run all the way to the back of the house like all the other beams.... it stops about 2 foot short of the back of the house (all the other beams seem to run right the way to the back and are anchored). it's just kind of hanging in space with a pathetic attempt at a stump jammed under the middle of it (no other stumps in this row... it's someone's attempted repair?) the stump thats in there has a coupla bricks on top of it but there's still at least 2 inches between the beam and the top of the bricks!!!

so my plan is to get another beam (that goes the full length) and put it next to the existing beam... get it level and then fix it to the back of the house with some gal clips or similar and pack up under the "middle of nowhere" stump to add some extra support.

my questions are...

1 - is the above idea ok?
2 - it's about a 5.5metre span.... any particular type of timber i should be using? i figure it has to be hardwood and the same dimensions as the existing "floatinig beam" but what kind?
3 - should i bolt the new beam to the existing beam once it's in position and affixed at both ends?
4 - should i nail the floorboards to the new beam?
5 - any ideas why this beam would be different to all the others?

all advice appreciated :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gurumon

2 - it's about a 5.5metre span.... any particular type of timber i should be using?

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RSJ!! Springs to mind....

Al :eek:

dig some holes and put stumps in under the existing beam.
a bit of 4" x 3" should do to fill in the extra length

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ozwinner

RSJ!! Springs to mind....

Al :eek:

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excuse my ignorance (i'm a computer geek not a carpenter :o )

rsj is an acronym for what? :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by echnidna

dig some holes and put stumps in under the existing beam.
a bit of 4" x 3" should do to fill in the extra length

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sorry i should have mentioned it's at the low end of the stumps (less than 1/2 metre clearance... digging holes would be difficult)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gurumon

excuse my ignorance (i'm a computer geek not a carpenter :o )

rsj is an acronym for what? :confused:

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Rolled steel joist.

Al :)

500mm clearance is ok. dig the stumpholes with a shortened shovel or even a garden trowel. If the dirts real hard use a masonry bit in a drill to loosen up the dirt in sections

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gurumon

I've recently purchased a circa 1890 qlder and the kitchen has a bad case of the shudders. walk around in there and it creaks and groans and generally makes scary noises.

so i went and had a look underneath at the stumps to see if the ones around the kitchen had sunk or rotted or similar... turns out the main beam which im guessing SHOULD run all the way to the back of the house like all the other beams.... it stops about 2 foot short of the back of the house (all the other beams seem to run right the way to the back and are anchored). it's just kind of hanging in space with a pathetic attempt at a stump jammed under the middle of it (no other stumps in this row... it's someone's attempted repair?) the stump thats in there has a coupla bricks on top of it but there's still at least 2 inches between the beam and the top of the bricks!!!

so my plan is to get another beam (that goes the full length) and put it next to the existing beam... get it level and then fix it to the back of the house with some gal clips or similar and pack up under the "middle of nowhere" stump to add some extra support.

my questions are...

1 - is the above idea ok?
2 - it's about a 5.5metre span.... any particular type of timber i should be using? i figure it has to be hardwood and the same dimensions as the existing "floatinig beam" but what kind?
3 - should i bolt the new beam to the existing beam once it's in position and affixed at both ends?
4 - should i nail the floorboards to the new beam?
5 - any ideas why this beam would be different to all the others?

all advice appreciated :D

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Hi gurumon...welcome.

First congratulations for your purchase, hope you enjoy it. A Quenslander will turn you from a computer gig to a carpenter in no time.

From your description it seems you are talking about a joist. You can definelty extend that joist that is too short with another 4"x2" hardwood next to that one, runt it all the way onto the bearer that is supporting the end of all the other joist. What I dont' understand is where are your bearers? Bearers are the beams usualy 4"x3" that support the joist, and run on top of the stumps. They shouldn't be spaced at more than 1.8m you are talking about 5m (?)
Anyway perhaps I am not understanding you description. Idealy your new joist should run next to the old short one and sit on two consecutive bearers, the one at the very end next to the wall and the next on that shouldn't be further than 1.8 meters one would hope. You then get a car jack or similar gadget and jack the old joist up until both are leveld, drill 3 3/8" holes, pass 3 bolts and Bob is your unkle.

If what you are saying is that the joists are 5 meter long and no bearers to hold them .... well you are in the poo, unless the joists are hum 12" wide.

If you are in the poo, don't panic, all you need is to install a bearer across all the joists...(well for 5 meters it should be two, but lets not bee too picky), in the center of the room,(under the joists that is, not in the room). I would use steel piers, the one that are adjustable, and space them 1.8 meters, about 1 bag of concrete mix per hole should do the trick...oh forgot they now make those sissy little bags for ladies with polished fingernails ... hum 2 of them will do ... :)

Keep on asking questions and eventualy they will make sense ... :)

I'm guessing that someone may have removed the little "outhouse" type construction that housed the original woodstove. These were usually at a diiferent level to the rest of the kitchen floor (can't remember if it's lower or higher). So when they remover this thay may have gotten rid of some of the different level stuff and then not replaced it. Like Marc says, usually you have floorboards sitting on joists (@ approx 450mm crs), which in turn sit on the bearers (@ around 1800 to 3000 crs).

Mick

thanks everyone for your replies... my dodgy terminology has confused a few people :D (on the upside i now know the difference between a joist and a bearer)
i spent a bit more time crawling around in the dirt this morning and now have a better idea...

the joists are all good... approx 550 centres.
the bearers are at approx 1600 centres. there's a good bearer on each external wall of the kitchen.... it's the bearer in the middle of the kitchen that is the problem, it's too short and it's about 300 off to the side of the stump at the back of the house.

so my plan now is.... put in a new bearer that lines up with the stump at the back of the house, put an adjustable pier in the middle of it and bob should be my uncle? (this will mean a span of approx 2500 between piers - which is in line with the existing spans)

questions now are....

1 - how do i attach the new bearer at each end? im thinking skew nailing the end that will sit on top of the stump at the rear of the house and one of those galvanised nail on mount things for the other end that attaches to the bearer running across the house.

2 - the new bearer will be too far away from the existing bearer to bolt to it (because i want to line it up to sit on the stump).... does this matter?

3 - do i need to nail the new bearer to the existing joists?

3 - where can i get an adjustable steel pier in brisbane? bunnings / mitre10? or do i need to find a steel place?

thanks everyone for the ideas.... keep them coming :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gurumon

thanks everyone for your replies... my dodgy terminology has confused a few people :D (on the upside i now know the difference between a joist and a bearer)
i spent a bit more time crawling around in the dirt this morning and now have a better idea...

the joists are all good... approx 550 centres.
the bearers are at approx 1600 centres. there's a good bearer on each external wall of the kitchen.... it's the bearer in the middle of the kitchen that is the problem, it's too short and it's about 300 off to the side of the stump at the back of the house.

so my plan now is.... put in a new bearer that lines up with the stump at the back of the house, put an adjustable pier in the middle of it and bob should be my uncle? (this will mean a span of approx 2500 between piers - which is in line with the existing spans)

questions now are....

1 - how do i attach the new bearer at each end? im thinking skew nailing the end that will sit on top of the stump at the rear of the house and one of those galvanised nail on mount things for the other end that attaches to the bearer running across the house.

2 - the new bearer will be too far away from the existing bearer to bolt to it (because i want to line it up to sit on the stump).... does this matter?

3 - do i need to nail the new bearer to the existing joists?

3 - where can i get an adjustable steel pier in brisbane? bunnings / mitre10? or do i need to find a steel place?

thanks everyone for the ideas.... keep them coming :)

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On the adjustable pier three things spring to mind,

1. Bluescope steel have an adjustable pier on their website
2. Give Scotts metals a call at the Gabba
3. Brisbane posts and beams are another

Tom

excellent... thanks for that - will chase up bluescope in the morning