Woodworking Coffee Adicts

New member BlIss posted a thread about making timber accessories for his espresso machine in this thread:

Off cuts & Advice on Timber for Coffee Machine

As you will see he has made timber group handles. BobL has made timber tamper handles and timber knock boxes:

And you can read about all that there, but it became apparant that the thread was going to be hijacked, primarily by yours truly, on the subject of coffee itself.

BobL clearly has more than a passing interest, I have bemoaned on many occasions the failing of so many commercial cafes and it occured to me that there are probably many of you out there who are truly passionate about one of the world's oldest brews.

So to kick it away I thought the type of issues we might ask you to discuss are:

Your favourite coffee establishment.
Your preferred coffee beans, where you get them and cost.
Pet hates about the way people or establishments make coffee
The terrible things you have observed when coffee is being made
Recipes. BobL has a tecqnique for iced coffee as an example.
Reviews and verdicts on coffee machines would be good too.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

I will begin with a story.

When we had our cafe in the Hunter Valley, we took over a business on a whim and like so many, hardly knew what we were doing, but as time went on we learned, mainly the hard way. For me as the coffee maker (I don't like to think of myself as a barrista at that time, although by the end I was approaching that status) I chanced on a stoke of luck.

I was invited to use a coffee by the name of Don Adan. I was sent a sample and loved it from the moment it passed my lips. At that stage I wasn't even making it correctly and I still loved it. It became clear that "coffees ain't coffees."

The owner and importer of this coffee came from Honduras where his family had had a plantation for more than five generations. It was in his blood, but he never drank coffee when he was out. Friends asked him why and his reply was that most establishments in Australia didn't know how to make coffee.

So they challenged him to set up his own shop. He did this and roasted and sold coffee to a limited number of other establishments of which ours was one. He would verify that they would do justice to his coffee before allowing them to buy it.

Gerrad came from Sydney to where we were and gave me an introduction on how to make coffee! He was pedantic and it was an eye opener to say the least.

I was fortunate to be taught by an expert, but many of the coffee companies run barrista courses so there is no excuse really not to know. The fundamentals are the same, the mistakes made by cafes are also the same.

So over to the woodworkers. This could fizzle like a "why bother" or it could hit a caffeine high:wink:.

Oh, I have just posted a single picture as the only remnant of our cafe (besides my trusty tamper, which serves no purpose at the moment as I only have stovetop espresso machines.) It is called a deli grinder. We used it only to grind coffee for customers who wanted to take some home. For every day use we had a couple of burr grinders. Now we just grind our own beans with it.



Regards
Paul<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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__________________
<!-- google_ad_section_start(weight=ignore) -->Bushmiller;

"Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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Good story BM!

My coffee life bio is as follows:
Continental parents so coffee is big from when I was a kid even if it was kind of cross between sump oil and Guinness.
Left home and was dripping and stove topping until I got my first espresso machine (La Cimbali Domus) about 15 years ago.
At work we set up a coffee club and started with a Saeco auto espresso machine and Segafredo Beans.
Not long after we discovered FiveSensesCoffee and that's when we really started learning what it was all about. We're still ordering from them and we are the corporate client that has been buying from them for longer than any other.
Dean Gallegher runs 5 Senses and had us over for tastings and trying new varieties and blends. He has really done and continues to do his homework. For about 5 years they were blending a roast especially for us called Burton's Blend. They have roasters in Perth and Melbourne. Their decaf is about the best I can find in Oz.
Bought a Cafe standard machine (La Cimbali Junior) in 2004 and Mazzer Mini grinder.
Spent way too many years of my life on international and Aussie coffee forums - mainly coffeegeek.com - only really got off it when I discovered WWF.
Did a barista course at the Australian Barista Academy but didn't learn much as I had gotten into it with the guys at work in a fairly deep way.
Did a barista judging course and judged a couple of state barista championships.
I visited Seattle a couple of times and despite being the home of Sickly Starducks they do have some seriously good coffee establishments. I did a "cafe bar crawl" tasting over a period of 3 days and spent a week of sleepless nights in the process.
This is as far as I went - I still like making and drinking coffee but don't drink as much as I used to because of sleeping issues. At one point I was drinking 8 doubles a day but now I'm down to about 3 doubles and 2 double decafs in the evening

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Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Your favourite coffee establishment.

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I'm not a big cafe coffee drinker. 95% of cafe coffee is swill and if I'm out somewhere I often drink tea.

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Your preferred coffee beans, where you get them and cost.

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5 Senses on-line - FiveSensesCoffee.com.au. Order one day and they are delivered freshly roasted within 2 days. I rarely keep beans more than 3 weeks before ordering new. My favourite single origin is probably still Purosa (New Guinea)

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Pet hates about the way people or establishments make coffee.

The terrible things you have observed when coffee is being made

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Crikey - where do I start?
My main observation is that 90% of ALL coffee is made with water that is too hot - if you don't know why this is bad, just ask. Stale beans, over roasted beans, cheap nasty beans, dirty machines, over extraction, water run through machine for too long, or too fast, served in the wrong cups, . . . . - I could go on and on.

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Recipes.

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My heart starter is a 14g semi-ristretto. 14g of freshly roasted ground coffee, reject the first 2-3 drops and then run in only about 20 ml of liquid - YUM!
Milk wise I like iced coffee and well made cappucinos with minimum froth.
I like affogatto - just google for the recipe.

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Reviews and verdicts on coffee machines would be good too.

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Coffeegeek.com has a serious range of user level reviews (see CoffeeGeek - Consumer Product Reviews) - I put mine in there somewhere.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...1&d=1234933663

Bobl

Will reply at later date. May be an issue where this thread is posted. Got to go for beauty sleep:)

Regards
Paul

Any time you want to write up a coffee making tutorial...

Good coffee is hit and miss in Toowoomba. More miss than hit, actually. And rarely worth the price of admission...

Thread fixed, Bushmiller :2tsup:

I totally agree, q9:rolleyes:

I don't like instant coffee but I am not a complete coffee snob.

Most places making espresso coffee make it too strong for me.

At home & when we travel, we use a plunger & organic coffee from Goroka.

These people are the Aus distributors.
Tradewinds :: The Official Website

Bearing in mind that the coffee is not meant to get too hot during the process, they way I have found to get a good coffee that is still hot when you go to drink it is to preheat the plunger & the cups & spoons in hot water, doesn't have to be boiling water, just hot water out of the tap in the kitchen, it makes a big difference.

I can drink espresso but I order it as a long black, 3/4 strength & get a little bit of milk on the side that I can then add to my liking 'cos I only have a dash.

I prefer raw sugar with my coffee.

:think: If the cafes make coffee with water that is too hot how do they change it if it is a machine?

Coffee abominations are nothing. Try getting a decent cup of tea. :doh: Who would have thought boiling water would have been so difficult. Some places that have even gone to the trouble of getting "special teas" still give you a cup of hot water with a pretty tea bag on the side. :gaah:

I wentr through a stage when I lived in Fitzroy, of having Long Macchiato. But I had to give it up cos I was turning into a coffee nazi. ITS SUPPOSED TO BE COLD MILK. NOT A SPOON OF FROTH ON TOP. :minigun:

Bushmiller OH I am SO happy to see others with like interests, and to find a few more on line is even better.

BobL I have seen that series of events posted by many as a more general introduction into coffee. If That makes sense. Alos like the Groups and Gauges etc. (Just made my own scace unit)


Loved the pics and my mouth just drules over the Knock Box....

In short, I am a Jack of all trades, Bush to City and then to many places OS.

IT / Electronics / F&T / Gaming / Fishing (Beach) / Coffee and most recently Wood Turning, oh and work is there some where :o:o

Sir Stinkalot knows me as AngerManagement and most recently from Coffeesnobs but have now joined Crema for any number of reasons. Lots of great Sites and some very useful places that cover off on the coffee process. Home Barista and their How to Pages is a good start.


Just sold my Dela Corta Mini and still have a few other basic home machines to get rid of and a couple of Commercial Grinders.

I will be at the Brisbane Wood Show and will be looking for suitable off cuts to try. If my mate from Nth NSW gets me some old Coffee tree would I will post and let you know asap.

The issue with coffee is that many get TOO caught up in the Technical and numbers side..

Good Beans +
Good Grinder +
And a person that has a understanding / feel =

Great Coffee.

The best machine can not cover for poor product or operator it is about what's in the cup.

PS. Too many; Tampers, Hand grinders, Roasters, EM6910's etc to count let alone about 60 or 80 kg of green beans....

AND NOW

I have to find space for all this new wood and timber stuff :o:o

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Originally Posted by tea lady

:think: If the cafes make coffee with water that is too hot how do they change it if it is a machine?

Coffee abominations are nothing. Try getting a decent cup of tea. :doh: Who would have thought boiling water would have been so difficult. Some places that have even gone to the trouble of getting "special teas" still give you a cup of hot water with a pretty tea bag on the side. :gaah:

I wentr through a stage when I lived in Fitzroy, of having Long Macchiato. But I had to give it up cos I was turning into a coffee nazi. ITS SUPPOSED TO BE COLD MILK. NOT A SPOON OF FROTH ON TOP. :minigun:

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You people should make the odd post on the Crema Forums... But way too many forums these days.

As BobL said... CoffeeGeek / Home Barista etc lots out there and lots of personalities :;:;

As for to HOT.. Big argument as it comes down to the Equipment type and the work flow and how the tec sets teh machine up and what the Owner will let the Barista (use that term loosely) do. So just - Monkey see monkey do and do not understand; others do, but management and or busy are not given the freedom. Then there is the issue that if all teh staff are not clones, then the cup will be different...

AND that is with out even considering how beans are managed :~:~:~

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Originally Posted by q9

Any time you want to write up a coffee making tutorial...

Good coffee is hit and miss in Toowoomba. More miss than hit, actually. And rarely worth the price of admission...

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How to make a good cup of coffee is the same as how long is a piece of string. The best way to learn is to do a barista course - all I can provide here are some pointers.

Like WW and a lot of other craft, good espresso and espresso based coffee is s triple input process; Operator, Tools and Input materials.

Operator: Has to be skilled enough to manage the equipment and materials to produce the desired output.

Tools: Whether its plunger, stove top, drip, espresso machine doesn't matter. A roasted coffee bean contains a mix of good, neutral and bad components and The equipment has to be able to extract the good bits and leave the nasty behind. Ever seen a barista smell a used coffee puck? If the good bits have been properly extracted the puck will have a faint sewage smell about it, if not then that stuff is in your cup. The most neglected piece of equipment is the grinder. A whirling blade type grinder is hopeless since it smashes/chops the bean into too wide a range of particle sizes making it too easy to extract the bad bits from the powder and too hard to extract anything from the big bits. The better types of grinders are burr and the best are conical burr grinders. Unfortunately the price of a basic grinder such as a Sunbeam 0408 is about $200.
http://worldbaristachampionship.com/

Input material: Two key words here are "Quality" and "Fresh". Freshly roasted coffee and milk. Roasted coffee reaches it's optimum 1-2 days after roasting (before that it still contains too much CO2 and just makes a lot of brown froth. Coffee beans start going stale after that and the extent you can retain then depends on many things but within 2-3 weeks the beans will become oily on the outside and lose that elusive coffee aroma/flavour. After four weeks most beans are only good for compost. The most neglected input is the temperature of the water which should DEFINITELY not be boiling as this quickly evaporates a lot of the goodies out of the coffee.

The world barista championship (WBC) defines a good espresso as follows.
A. An espresso must 30 +/- ml of liquid including crema.
B. Each single espresso should be produced with an appropriate and consistent amount of ground coffee.
C. Espresso shall be brewed at a temperature between 90.5- 96 degrees Celsius.
D. Machine brewing pressure will be 8.5 to 9.5 atmospheres.
E. Extraction time must be between 20 to 30 seconds.
F. Espressos must be served in a 2 to 3 ounce / 60 to 90 ml cup with a handle.

Cappuccino
A.A Cappuccino should consist of a single shot of espresso, and steamed milk and frothed milk (usually in equal amounts with no discernible boundary between the liquid and frothed milk.
B. A traditional cappuccino is 150 to 180 ml beverage served in 150 to 180 ml cup with a handle.
C. Any additional toppings, spices or powdered flavourings are not allowed.

WBC are not being prats about these specifications, there has been an enormous amount of research done on this and the consensus by professional expresso coffee tasters includes all of the above. If you get your equipment and yourself to meet these specifications you will make a better coffee.

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Originally Posted by tea lady

:think: If the cafes make coffee with water that is too hot how do they change it if it is a machine?

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Assuming the machine has been properly serviced (many are not) most quality machines have a temperature adjustment mechanism. For machines that do not if a machine has been sitting and not being used they will over heat and just need a simple flush for 20 seconds or so to bring the temp down.

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Coffee abominations are nothing. Try getting a decent cup of tea. :doh: Who would have thought boiling water would have been so difficult. Some places that have even gone to the trouble of getting "special teas" still give you a cup of hot water with a pretty tea bag on the side. :gaah:

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I agree. Tea needs very hot water to get the full flavour out of the leaves. Ever tried to make a good tea at altitude? As for tea bags . . . . well putting tea in porous little bags is a excellent way to wick flavour from tea leaves as quickly as possible.

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I wentr through a stage when I lived in Fitzroy, of having Long Macchiato. But I had to give it up cos I was turning into a coffee nazi. ITS SUPPOSED TO BE COLD MILK. NOT A SPOON OF FROTH ON TOP. :minigun:

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In Italy I have seen them all use all manner of milk including room temp milk or milk from the frothed milk that has been sitting on a counter for an hour or two and even from a little packet of long life milk. Mind you most Italian barista's cannot make a cappuccino either.

Macchiatos, lattes, flat whites, long, short, tall, grande, half cafs etc have no meaning or definition in the world of pro coffee makers. The world barista championship only defines an espresso (as determined by research) and places a specification on a cappuccino in terms of the integrity of the milk and froth. Other coffees are considered as fashion.

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Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

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Most places making espresso coffee make it too strong for me.
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Thats usually because they usually over extract it with water that is too hot and are probably using poor quality stale coffee. What they end up with is horrible black liquid with all the unwanted bitter components of the coffee in the cup instead of leaving most in the puck.

The holy grail of espresso is to try and make it as close as possible to the way freshly roasted coffee smells - what we usually smell is the volatile sweetness of caramel chocolate like substances and a little less of the bitter and even less sour although sometimes you can get hints of berries in the aroma.

Making a good espresso from a single dose of ground coffee (7 g) is really difficult because it gives no leeway between the good and the bad. I use 12 or 14 g of ground coffee - that should be enough to make 2 shots but I under extract it, this extracts the sour component but leaves the excess bitter behind. If the beans are fresh then there should be enough caramel sweetness coming through to retain some balance but if one is after an overall sweet taste then that can be balanced with sugar although I prefer not to do this. As the coffee bean ages the volatile caramel flavours evaporate away and some sugars are converted to other more bitter compounds.

A good espresso should have a tan (not cream and definitely not white) crema with flecks or stripes of a deep orange/dark brown. The correct crema colour is the number one indicator of the freshness and quality of the beans and says there are still caramel components present in the bean.

The chemistry is exceedingly complicated - which is one reason this appeals to me. The chase is fun - like aging a good wine or even a good set of dovetails .:D

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Originally Posted by tea lady

... Long Macchiato. But I had to give it up cos I was turning into a coffee nazi. ITS SUPPOSED TO BE COLD MILK. NOT A SPOON OF FROTH ON TOP. :minigun:

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Yup, I order a long black with a bit of cold milk on the side & I get told "Arh, you want a long mac." & then most of them make a long black & spoon milk froth onto it.

I even had one bloke in Kuranda get up me 'cos I was a stupid aussie that didn't know what I wanted.
I said I did know what I wanted & that most coffee snobs made what 'they thought' I wanted & got it wrong.
He said that what I was asking for was a long mac.
I said OK that is what I'll have.
When I went in there again, not 2 weeks later & asked for a Long mac, the bastard made it with hot milk froth. :~

There is a silly cranky old Mexican in Mt Molloy who won't even sell you a long black if you are going to put cold milk in it. :rolleyes:

Fantastic thread guys/girls. Really enjoying it - thankyou.

FYI, I approve coffee machines, amongst other electrical appliances for Australia and NZ, and there are machines and there are machines!

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Originally Posted by Cliff Rogers

Yup, I order a long black with a bit of cold milk on the side & I get told "Arh, you want a long mac." & then most of them make a long black & spoon milk froth onto it.

I even had one bloke in Kuranda get up me 'cos I was a stupid aussie that didn't know what I wanted.
I said I did know what I wanted & that most coffee snobs made what 'they thought' I wanted & got it wrong.
He said that what I was asking for was a long mac.
I said OK that is what I'll have.
When I went in there again, not 2 weeks later & asked for a Long mac, the bastard made it with hot milk froth. :~

There is a silly cranky old Mexican in Mt Molloy who won't even sell you a long black if you are going to put cold milk in it. :rolleyes:

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Your experiences are just one reason why I don't frequent cafes , OTOH an awful lot of Aussies buy their coffee at Macas coffee so I can sense the frustration of a good barista when a customer says I want my coffee so hot its boiling.