Asking a Client for money

Just did a finished a job this weekend, putting in some shelves and hanging a clothes dryer. Took me 11 hrs and I only charged $35/hr Totalling $385 in labour. The materials were $385, I only put a VERY small margin on the materials, about $30 in total! This was also for cash, NO GST.

When I gave her the bill, the client looked at me like I'd 2 heads! I could read her eyes saying WHAT WHY SO EXPENSIVE!!! A handyman would have charged more!

Thing is though I felt guilty!

Anyone else get this when the bill is produced??!!!

I always try to give clients some idea of total costs prior to starting the work I find this eliminates that look you got.
the problem is not knowing exact amount of time before doing the job so I give an hourly rate and if I think its going to take 10 hours I quote for 15 this does lose me some work but clients are happier when the costs aren't a surprise.

Been there done that had the same reaction.

Even worse is mates rates when the so called mates aren't really mates but users.

$35 an hour is cheap $65 to $120 is coming closer to the mark.

When I was in business as a painting contractor, I always gave a "fixed price quote" for work to be carried out. This figure included labour and materials. I only charged extra if extra work was added by the customer. So there was no hassle with the customer.

I fail to understand (although this is common practice today) why some tradesmen leave the quote open with an hourly rate and materials charged for according to what has been used.

A tradesman should be able to quote accurately for work. I was painting 365 days of the year and when it came to quoting, I knew almost, exactly what the cost to me would be to complete a contract and how long ti would take me to complete it. If they don't know or can't figure it out, they are not much of a tradesman. I will not have any work carried out by a tradesman if they cannot give me a fixed price for the work.

It brings back memories of the days when builders didn't give fixed price site costs for building a home, It invariably ended up costing a lot more than the original quote. I lived in Sydney some years ago and all builders worked that way until a big building company opened up in NSW and gave "fixed price site costs" Strange then, how most other large builder contractors gave a "fixed price" site costing when for years before, they couldn't.

On the other hand, if a customer is prepared to hand out work on the basis of an hourly rate and pay for materials used without having an idea of the completed cost of the work being carried out in advance, then they have to be prepared to pay the price when the job is completed and shouldn't be surprised when the bill is higher than they thought it might be. This method of quoting can leave customers with a nasty taste in their mouth.

$35 an hour seems a fair enough rate for work that is really somewhat unskilled. I'm not sure what the going rate is for a handyman these days.

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Originally Posted by munruben

$35 an hour seems a fair enough rate for work that is really somewhat unskilled. I'm not sure what the going rate is for a handyman these days.

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I've used a handyman to do (mostly) cleanup work on a country investment property. He charges $40 an hour.

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Originally Posted by snowyskiesau

I've used a handyman to do (mostly) cleanup work on a country investment property. He charges $40 an hour.

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Thanks for the info . Not bad income eh? unskilled work, 40 hour week $1600 a week and mostly cash in hand I would say.. I think I was in the wrong line of business.:)

I have always had a problem charging the proper rate for a job. Thats probably why I failed twice at self employment long term. I would give a fixed price quote and would stick to it.
I stupidly gave a bloke a quote which had a labour content figure far below what was the actual cost because I used a subtotal when adding up to give the quote. I of course got the job but did not find my mistake until I went back to paperwork to give the invoice. Because I believe in firm pricing a did that job for the quoted price even though I was well and truly out of pocket
Guilt should not come into it! You spend the time, do the job (to the best of your ability!!!) and charge accordingly!!! I still have trouble adhering to this statement but we MUST

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Originally Posted by munruben

Thanks for the info . Not bad income eh? unskilled work, 40 hour week $1600 a week and mostly cash in hand I would say.. I think I was in the wrong line of business.:)

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Who says the work was unskilled?

How many contractors get 40 hrs a week?

What's left by the time you've paid GST, tax and various insurances?

When I used to accept private restoration work, I'd always give an estimate (not a firm quote) and explain that all sorts of issues can arise that aren't initially obvious and therefore the final bill could vary somewhat. If they raised an eyebrow at that point, I wouldn't entertain further discussion and would walk away.

What's more, if they were a new customer and it was a substantial job (perhaps a number of pieces of furniture) I would request a deposit (more of a test of their will to part with money than my need for it) and then I'd sometimes ask for periodic payments too, and when the work was all finished, I'd submit a small final bill (including carriage) which was payable before the furniture was returned. In return, I'd make it clear that they were always welcome at the workshops to inspect progress.

I was only shafted once, and that was by an old 'family friend', who, at the request of my father, I didn't "embarrass" with an estimate or quote. That was almost an entire house full and I lost many thousands of pounds. After that incident, friend or foe, I always sorted out the money aspect prior to arranging collection of the furniture or commencing any work. It's only fair to both parties to be fully aware of the likely cost and time frame.

I would often have to explain that it could be six, nine or twelve months (depending on my work load – trade and shop restoration always came first) before I could get around to their job. Regular customers were fine with that and some new customers would become quite irate and attempt to assert their importance. Again, I would smile politely and walk away. It's always prudent to leave every situation on the best possible terms!

In your case Gary_H, you've gone ahead with the work without giving the customer (who's probably totally ignorant of the cost of materials and hourly rates) and she's understandably arced up at the cost even though you've charged her below the going rate. Try explaining the reduced hourly rate to her now and she'll likely think you're a right cowboy trying to sweet talk her. I think you should be prepared to negotiate what ever figure you can and learn from the event. No customer's that desperate that they can't wait a day or two for your estimate or quote.

Agree.

When I started consulting I set my rates too low; attending to a guess about client capacity to pay rather than the worth of my work.

If you undervalue yrself likely the client will too.

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Originally Posted by rsser

Who says the work was unskilled?

How many contractors get 40 hrs a week?

What's left by the time you've paid GST, tax and various insurances?

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I wouldnt call cleaning up around a property skilled work in the true sense of the word. The original post stated the quote was for Cash so wouldn't be too sure that GST was collected or paid in this instance. Not sure how many contractors do 40 hours week. A contractor is free to work the hours that suits him/her I guess so the more hours they work, the greater the income. I might add that many contractors work well in access of 40 hours a week. I am not suggesting that contractors overcharge for their services. I only commented on the post by snowyskiesau above where the fee of $40 was what he paid for having some clean up work done.

OK, but the OP was about hanging shelves and a drier.

I recall going over this topic just after joing the forum its still a hot topic.

John I understand what your saying aout a fixed pricein many lines of repair its easy such as yours. I know computers are not as you know it may not be that simple to diagnose or repair. Similar with auto's, rstorations as Wouldwood has said. Plumbing and building construction al have hidden areas you can always see.
Look at Sydney years ago when slab homes where first built plumbing was thrugh the concrete under the floor many burst through movement, damn engineers dsigners builders should have had more brains.

LOML's cousin runs major computer IT their hourly rate is $175 :o regardless then parts etc.

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Originally Posted by Woodwould

. If they raised an eyebrow at that point, I wouldn't entertain further discussion and would walk away. .

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It's great if you were in a position to do that WW and in your line of work, being very specialised, you can probably adopt that attitude however, it is not always that easy with all trades. Competition is very strong in some industries and, excuse the expression, "a dime a dozen" In other words, it would be much easier to find a good painter of my caliber than a good Furniture restorer of your caliber. Guess you could call it supply and demand.

It brings to mind a quote of my daughter when she was just starting out in the real estate business. She was being interviewed for a job with a competitor of the company she was working for and the interviewer asked my daughter her thoughts on what the company should pay her for her services. My daughter mentioned a figure and the interviewer replied that his company could not pay that amount to employ her, as they were only just starting out in business themselves, to which my daughter simply replied "Well in that case, you can't afford me"

Munruben
Good on your daughter for her straight up answer!
When I started working for myself, the second time, my accountant BIL said to make sure "I" fired the bullets in my company NOT the client.Looking back it was good advice but when you get caught up in the hurley burley of a one man business, its hard to keep in the right direction. I started off doing mainly cabinet work ,which I liked because I was working at home using my workshop, then site work to install it. I was also doing long hours just trying to keep up. But very slowly I ended up doing more and more site work which created problems in myself.
Any way its all in the past and I am on a pension.
$40 an hour looks awfully tempting but I don't think I could handle the stress ( I know I couln't handle the stress)