Gas Heater in the shed.

[zymurgy]

Is anyone using one of these 'industrial' type of LPG gas heaters in their shed?

It's so bloody cold here lately, I need something to make it bearable.

[ptc]

i need some heat to,
but have not done any thing about it.
re dust etc when turning.
any ideas on how to go about getting a warm shed.
when in qld it was coping with the sweat.!
ptc

[ozwinner]

Hi Gordon

I have used these types of heater before, I think they are a good thing as far as heat goes, I would be a little concerned about fumes though.
Especialy in your in your garage with no ventilation.
I have no idea if the fumes from lpg are bad, but I suppose all fumes are bad. :(

Al :)

[zymurgy]

Al,

Concerned about fumes as well (then it really would be a coffin garage).

I can leave the roller door open a tad. I'm sure that'll suffice.

I had a four burner unit demoed today, it was warm therefore - cool :cool:

[ozwinner]

You could always vent out to where your fish pond is.


Al :)

[journeyman Mick]

LPG is pretty safe fumes-wise, byproducts of combustion are water vapour and carbon dioxide. That's why they use it on forklifts and other engines used indoors. I would be more worried about the fire danger :eek:

Mick

[soundman]

I'd be a little concerened with it as a cource of ignition.

have you thaught about reverse cycle aircon.

[zymurgy]

Last two replies are from fellow woodworkers who probably haven't felt Melbourne cold nights - a quick explosion would be warming at least :D

But seriously, please be more specific. I use a sander with dust extraction (Festo). Attach the 2Hp dust extractor to planar and jointer, so minimal dust.

I will be leaving door up a tad for fresh air.

[RETIRED]

Gooday.

Because of some other work I do (repair and build motor homes) I can tell you that LPG can be lethal in closed unventilated situations and regulations are very specific about where, when, how and what can be used where.

You can die from asphyxiation. Another byproduct of LPG combustion is moisture, watch the tools rust.

You do run a very low risk of having an explosion.

A better option that we have in our workshop is a wall mounted unit that draws fresh air from outside and exhausts the same way.

My .01c worth.

And yes it is bloody cold here at the moment.

[Ian007]

I'd be a little concerened with it as a cource of ignition.

have you thaught about reverse cycle aircon.

R/C air con in a woodworking enviroment will not work unless you dont mind cleaning the filters at least once every time you do any work in the shed.
& if you dont have filters then the heat exchangers clog up with the dust and it wont work then either, at least not very well and will cost a bit to fix it when you stuff it from not having a filter, the filters are there to catch the dust in the first place.

Cheers Ian :)

[jackiew]

used gas cylinder heater in my garage in uk ( unit was used in the house til I got central heating :) ) . We didn't keel over from the fumes , though they do smell a bit. They do kick out A LOT of moisture, I agree with - expect rusting of anything prone to rust in the vicinity - they also kick out a lot of heat. Just don't use an aersol spray next to one. :eek:

[bitingmidge]

And yes it is bloody cold here at the moment.

WHY NOT MOVE NORTH?? :rolleyes:

Without wanting to open up the silly old interstate rivalry festering sore, I cannot understand why so many people spend so much money trying to keep warm.

I know there's Mum, and the job and the house and the kid's at school and all that stuff, but really....what are the reasons you guys like the cold?

We live where we live because I was raised in North Queensland, and couldn't survive in a colder climate, my wife was born in Wagga, and doesn't want to get any warmer in summer...so it's a compromise!

It's just that the cost of airconditioning or a decent central heating system would just about equip a decent workshop, and the savings on fuel bills would buy enough timber to keep you going for the rest of your life.

Cheers,

A soon to be enlightened,

P

[silentC]

Why not move north?

We don't have an air conditioner at all. We have an LPG gas heater (Bowen, made in Sydney - excellent brand if you're in the market). It gets quite cold at home in July-August (I'm in Sydney at the moment). We probably use the heater in the evenings for about a month. How many months does the average Queenslander run their air conditioner?

I love the cold. When it's too cold for a T-shirt, I put on a shirt or a jumper. On the other hand, I hate hot-humid weather. Dry heat, well that's another story. Good beer drinking weather. But hot and humid is lousy if you have to work in it. The sweat gets in your eyes and drips all over your machine tables. You're knackered after a couple of hours.

Why not move North? Too bloody hot - nice for a holiday but wouldn't want to stay. At least when it's cold down here I can do something about it.

(Notice I didn't say "'cause there's too many Queenslanders up there" ;) )

[Sturdee]

WHY NOT MOVE NORTH??


Soon after I got married my inlaws retired and moved to the Gold coast to live. My wife visits them once a year and they come down an visit us once a year.

So I have the best of both worlds - the kind of weather I prefer and inlaw free most of the year. :)


Peter.

[zymurgy]

You can die from asphyxiation. Another byproduct of LPG combustion is moisture, watch the tools rust.



,

Further to this. The brand I am looking at is the 'SuperRay'. Spoke with manufacturer this morning as I was concerned about minimum heights quoted (1.2m).

Since I have a concrete roof, no concerns. When I mentioned that I have a 'coffin' garage, we worked out the maximum unit for the given air volume and it came out just under their 3 head burner. So I can safely use the smaller 2 head unit without worry of using up all the oxygen (even with door fully closed).

I also mentioned the by-product issue (water) and he suggested that since the units are 97% efficient, that it should not be an issue.

[Wood Borer]

[QUOTE
At least when it's cold down here I can do something about it.

(Notice I didn't say "'cause there's too many Queenslanders up there" ;) )[/QUOTE]

Good point SilentC.

The variation in weather down South is good. Although I regularly visit QLD and enjoy the tropics and the desert and the people, I think the long spells of the same weather could be a problem with me.

I have read reports where scientists have thought bacteria and other minute nasties don't last very long in climates that vary which is good from a health point of view.

I can make my shed comfortable with the gas heater during the colder months but the heat can be uncomfortable in the warmer months in Melbourne.

Using hand tools can warm you up.

- Wood Borer

[Tristan Croll]

I also mentioned the by-product issue (water) and he suggested that since the units are 97% efficient, that it should not be an issue.

I'm afraid he has no idea what he's talking about. Natural gas (mostly methane, CH4) burns according to the formula

CH4 + 2 O2 --> CO2 + 2 H2O

If the units are 97% efficient, that means that 97% of the natural gas undergoes this reaction, and the remainder is unburnt.

What about an infrared heat lamp (like those used in bathrooms)?

Cheers,

Tristan

[gatiep]

Gordon

It is obvious that whoever gave you the story about it being OK doesn't know what he is talking about.
Running the gas heater in a confined, unventilated space will eventually consume very close to 100% of the available oxygen, to the point where the flame will go out. Unfortunately you will go out first.
Thet was a stupid statent by a stupid guy. Ventilate at all times or soon you won't need the heater!

[RETIRED]

I agree Joe.

Combustion requires oxygen, flammable material(in this case gas) and ignition source. It obtains said oxygen from interior of box(shed), flame goes out through lack of oxygen and so do you.

Having attended a couple of asphyxiations it ain't pretty.

[Eastie]

Gordon,
To use an unflued gas heater inside you must have extremely good cross ventilation &/or an extremely large internal room volume, which in my mind defeats any advantage of the price of mains gas and relatively low cost of these units. As for forklifts and the like there extremely tight controls that should be adhered to in terms of indoor use – if the risk can’t be managed or is borderline you will usually find electric is used.

If you are unmovable on getting one, check with a decent sales person who knows a lot more than the ****** you have spoken to already. Ask if it has an oxygen depletion sensor (I’d be looking for written evidence from the manufacturer), which will shut off the gas supply if the level of oxygen in the room drops to a level where is insufficient fresh air to support clean(ish) combustion, instead of continuing to burn and producing volumes of carbon monoxide.

Wherether or not it produces a major or minor CO2/CO risk, the longer you spend in a closed shed with one of these units running, the worse the indoor air quality will get, which in tern can directly affect your health. If you have or have previously suffered from a dodgy ticker have a chat to your doctor/specialist about the possible side effects.


If nothing else the problem with water vapor and rusty tools/equipment should steer you away from it.
Eastie

[hexbaz]

For what it's worth, I agree with the asphyxia comments made earlier in the thread. Ventilation is a must... But my greatest concern is that this is a wood shop. OK, you are using extraction, but sawdust (particularly if dry) is a very good explosive. I would seriously recommend a form of heating (infra-red, for instance) that does not involve a naked flame.

[jackiew]

Gordon,
[color=black]Ask if it has an oxygen depletion sensor

or buy a canary for the shed :eek:

for those not in the know canaries were traditionally used down mines to monitor air quality ... if the canary drops off its perch ... get out quick.

If you're using the shed during the day you could always make yourself a solar heater

http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/robkemp/SunLizard/SunLizard.htm shows a commercial one using a solar panel but somewhere i've got instructions how to make a DIY unit which from memory uses black paint and glass and other recyclables... which I haven't got round to trying yet ( its on that to do list that goes three times round the house and down the street :( )

[RETIRED]

Jackie, it is nice to see that like me you also write your to-dos on a roll of Sorbent :D

[Ben from Vic.]

I use an oil heater (column heater). We happened to have one lying around and I figured it would be just the thing for the shed (no naked flame).

The shed is just a bit smaller than a (small) one car garrage. The heater only has about 5 columns but it works fine. You just have to wait about 30 mins while it builds up heat.

It's rated to 1200w max.

Ben.

[Slavo]

Another thing to consider when using unflued gas heaters is the oxides of nitrogen that they can produce, which have been known to agravate respiratory problems, such as asthma.

[zymurgy]

Guys,

I haven't purchased one yet, partly because they're not cheap!

In fairness to the chap I spoke to, he calculated the air volume of the shed and the smallest heater fits well within the standards for an enclosed space.

Also, it's not as if the shed is sealed, there is a 25mm gap running the width of the shed (6m) at the top where the roller door is.