G'day all, newbie re termite damage

[I_hate_termites]

Gday Everyone,
Im Greg from Bidwill in Western Sydney. Just found your forum and I hope to learn and be of assistance to others here. I have always loved woodworking from highschool days and made much of my own furniture.

I am now in need of serious higher learning as termites have stuffed my house, my subfloor is destroyed, most bearers and joists in my house are eaten out and they have penetrated in to roof space eating the rafters. This has been a depressing nightmare as I cannot afford to demolish and rebuild, but lately I have been more positive thinking I can fix this myself over time, especially as I was sucessfull in replacing half of of the eaten facia boards myself so that I could put up new gutters and i can use tools. This took some improvising due to the eaten rafters but my neighbor helped me of which I am very greatful.

It is very bad damage as my kitchen floor has suck 1" from skirting boards to floor boards and the floors are very bouncy and noisy but the kitchen is worst and i hope to start there with the floor.

I know I cannot learn everything from one post but hope I can post questions to this forum and learn and others with similar problems may also be helped.

So I would be very thankful of any knowledge you can impart to me and any help with where to appropriatly post threads and for now maybe you can help with any web sites or books that deal with DIY ripping up & relacing floors ( I hope to reuse the old floor boards as these dont seem to be eaten) replacing bearers and joists on a limited budget and with a very small crawl space underneath ( I cant fit under the house in many places).
My house is a three bedroom brick veneer with wood frame and subloor on brick peers.

Thankyou and I hope to get to know you all better.
Greg

[Christos]

Welcome to the forum.

[snowyskiesau]

Welcome and commiserations.
I had a similar experience earlier this year. Damage still to be repaired.

There's another forum (http://www.renovateforum.com), sibling to this one, where there are several threads regarding termite damage. Here's one (http://www.renovateforum.com/showthread.php?p=763677#post763677).

[munruben]

Welcome Greg and sorry to hear about the damage that has been caused by termites.
I am sure you will receive plenty of advice on here and maybe some on hands help. The guys on here are unbelievable and more generous people with their time you will never find.. Good luck with your repairs.

[I_hate_termites]

Thanks Christos, sure weel chat on the forum sometime.
Greg

[I_hate_termites]

Welcome and commiserations.
I had a similar experience earlier this year. Damage still to be repaired.

There's another forum (http://www.renovateforum.com), sibling to this one, where there are several threads regarding termite damage. Here's one (http://www.renovateforum.com/showthread.php?p=763677#post763677).

Thanks snowyskiesau, sorry to hear you also suffered from termites. After a long time of hopelessness Im now looking forward to getting stuck into some serious building, though will take a long time, Im confident I can do it with some knowledge I hope to learn here. I Hope your repairs go well too.
Ban termites from the city I say. ( :

Cheers Greg

[I_hate_termites]

Welcome Greg and sorry to hear about the damage that has been caused by termites.
I am sure you will receive plenty of advice on here and maybe some on hands help. The guys on here are unbelievable and more generous people with their time you will never find.. Good luck with your repairs.

Thanks munruben, appreciate the replies and am looking forward to learning from all the experience here. Seems to be some nice people on the forum.
Ill post some questions as i come up with them, sure there will be lots.
Cheers
Greg

[I_hate_termites]

And thanks for links to the other forum snowyskiesau, appreciate it
Greg

[San]

Hi Greg,
I deal with problems such as your every day, and I kind of understand your situation.
Termite damage is more common than you think, and unless you have an annual inspection, you really are flying blind.

From a termite specialist point of view, it is firstly important that you eradicate the colony responsible for the damage, and have a termite management system in plce to prevent further attack. There are a few options when it comes to termite prevention and eradication and your pest control operator will advise you according to the construction of your home.

I would like to recommend our Termicure Termite Baiting System, however, I think you may need to use an integrated Termite Management system with the use of a Chemical treatment as well as a baiting system.

As far as chemical soil treatments go, the best treatment chemical is Termidor. It is undetectable to termites, so they will continue to feed, however as soon as they come into contact with treated soil, they will transfer tiny particles of the active constituant back to the central nest whilst feeding the colony via the transfer effect. This will begin the process of wiping out the colony.

Once you have created a termite safe area around your home, I would then begin to rebuild your home as you are able.

I look forward hearing you progress with the house.

[I_hate_termites]

Hi Greg,
I deal with problems such as your every day, and I kind of understand your situation.
Termite damage is more common than you think, and unless you have an annual inspection, you really are flying blind.

From a termite specialist point of view, it is firstly important that you eradicate the colony responsible for the damage...,
As far as chemical soil treatments go, the best treatment chemical is Termidor.
I look forward hearing you progress with the house.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hi San,
Thanks for your reply and your expertise. Just as you mentioned the pest inspector I last used recommended Termidor as well. However he ended up spraying my entire subfloor with "Bifenthrin", he also drilled and soaked 2 trees, He said this would kill the colony and it seems to have. However I am still a bit worried as previous quotes I got said that trenching and soaking the trench inside and outside the boader of my house would be needed but this gentleman did not do that, but he was also much cheaper than the other quotes and I went with what I could afford at the time.He did seem thorough and helpfull. He has given me a 10 year warranty as long as I get him back each year to check for termites which seems reasonable and as you suggest is probably necessary.

From your expertise do you think spraying "Bifenthrin" on the ground and the wood under the house is sufficient ? As I wonder about the termites attacking again from outside the boader of the house eg under concrete slabs next to the house which have not been drilled and treated as were recomended in other quotes I had. ?
Would termidor be better next time. ?

It will be a fair while till I am able to start repairing the damage I am still trying to save for the timber costs and I will have to rip out and pay fpor a new kitchen as well. Its a terrible experience but I suppose it will keep me occupied after work and on weekends for the next few years ( :
thanks again for your reply.

Cheers, Greg

[San]

At least you have had something done....
You did what you could afford, sometimes that's all you can do.

Bifenthrin is a cheaper termiticide, and is basically a termite "repellent". This was the most effective termiticide on the market a few years back after they banned Heptachlor and Deildron, and many technicians still use it as a cheaper alternative to Termidor. Termidor, when applied correctly, is undectable to termites, and they will continue to forage as usual, travelling through treated areas without their knowledge, carrying it back to the nest. The limitation with bifenthrin, is that termites will actively seek gaps in the treated zone, and once a gap is located, termites have an entry point. Bifenthrin will work fine in a nest treatment situation, and it seems that your pesty has located the nest in the trees, and treated it correctly. This will do the trick, provided the nest has been accurately located.

As for the areas your pestie has treated and the method, I am unable to comment. Most sub floor situations require both sides of the footings treated and concrete drilled and injected with termiticide where is cannot be trenched.
This is expensive in a sub floor situation. A slab on ground house would be around half the price as ther is only one side of the footing to be treated.

Something which many pesties do not class as part of their scope is sub floor ventilation. Insufficient sub floor ventilation can create a termite haven, as moisture is retained within the confines of the sub floor. We recommend the installation of sub floor fans wherever this is the case.

In our manufacturing business, we created a professional baiting product which has traditionally been expensive, and implimented a system where it is suitable for installation and monitoring by the homeowner. Treatment is still a job for your pest controller, but it keeps your costs to a minimum. With the use of Bifenthrin in your subfloor, and in the nests, chances are that there will still be active termites on your property, albeit from another colony, if the original colony has been killed.

I would still place some baits around your property to keep an eye on any activity in the area. If the baits become active, then treatment of the active baits is almost certain to destroy other colonies around your home. You would place them in areas which have not been treated with bifenthrin, as they will be repelled from the treated zones.

Our baits are sold with a text message and email reminder service for the homeowner, so that baits do not go unchecked. Again, we recommend the use of Termidor Dust, liquid or foam for any treatment to ensure the highest odds of colony eradication.

I would like to post a link to our website as there is lots of valuable information, however, I don't want to get banned from the forum. If the forum administrator will allow me to, I will post it.

Save it. Just go to my profile and visit our homepage. There's more termite info there than you can poke a stick at, and details on our termite baits and sub floor ventilation fans. Any questions, just send me an email....

The main thing is, that you keep your chin up. These things can be rectified. It may take some time and money, however, at least you get the opportunity to change some of the things you may not have liked about your home.

[I_hate_termites]

I appreciate the trouble you have gone to and the information you have helped me with.
It does sound like Termidor is the way I should have gone. I have had a look at your web site http://www.termicure.com.au/ and appreciate the 12 tips on termites and I will definatly consider the termite baiting. Can I buy termidor from you or do you have to be a registered pest inspector ?. I was able to buy some "Dursban" a few years back it was for sale without a licence needed when I tried to deal with the problem myself as I could not afford the thousands of dollars I was being quoted at the time and as most of the damage had already been done.
Cheers & thanks again for your help.
Greg

[San]

No problems for the info. Termites are my working life, sadly, I'm passionate about getting people the CORRECT information, as there are so many companies portraying the products which make the most money. Ane example: I went to a ladys house on tuesday because she wanted a second quote on a termite protection system for her home. A slab on ground house, I priced up a termidor barrier at around $2200. She immediately asked me if this was the best treatment so I gave her a Termidor DVD to watch which explains the process and the protection. She gave me the go ahead on the spot, and handed me a quote from another company which had a baiting system proposal of $3300, which is pretty standard. But what the proposal didn't have, was the estimated cost of servicing each year attached. So this poor old lady would have purchased a system which required an additional $1200 per year or more for servicing, without even being informed. And what's worse, is that the system she was quoted, still belonged to manufacturers, and if a service agreement was not extended to the following year, the installers had the right to remove it.

I do beleive that the best way to protect a property is with a Termidor Barrier. Sometimes construction methods make it impossible to do a Barrier, and then, I beleive baits come into their own. Baits are a great way to treat problem areas and eradicate termite colonies, but overall, a barrier is working for you 24-7 for up to 8-10 years.

Unfortunately, termidor is not available to the general public, and even if you could get some, I would have a pesty do the application for you, as it is easy to botch a treatment if you don't know what you're doing.

Keeping in mind that during tratment of a live bait, you must not apply too much dust or liquid as you will overdose the termites in the bait, and they will not survive long enough to get back to the nest. Alternatively, if you don't apply enough, there may be some decrease in colony numbers, but you won't be successful with a full kill.

[Coptotermes]

No problems for the info. Termites are my working life, sadly, I'm passionate about getting people the CORRECT information, as there are so many companies portraying the products which make the most money. Ane example: I went to a ladys house on tuesday because she wanted a second quote on a termite protection system for her home. A slab on ground house, I priced up a termidor barrier at around $2200. She immediately asked me if this was the best treatment so I gave her a Termidor DVD to watch which explains the process and the protection. She gave me the go ahead on the spot, and handed me a quote from another company which had a baiting system proposal of $3300, which is pretty standard. But what the proposal didn't have, was the estimated cost of servicing each year attached. So this poor old lady would have purchased a system which required an additional $1200 per year or more for servicing, without even being informed. And what's worse, is that the system she was quoted, still belonged to manufacturers, and if a service agreement was not extended to the following year, the installers had the right to remove it.

I do beleive that the best way to protect a property is with a Termidor Barrier. Sometimes construction methods make it impossible to do a Barrier, and then, I beleive baits come into their own. Baits are a great way to treat problem areas and eradicate termite colonies, but overall, a barrier is working for you 24-7 for up to 8-10 years.

Unfortunately, termidor is not available to the general public, and even if you could get some, I would have a pesty do the application for you, as it is easy to botch a treatment if you don't know what you're doing.

Keeping in mind that during tratment of a live bait, you must not apply too much dust or liquid as you will overdose the termites in the bait, and they will not survive long enough to get back to the nest. Alternatively, if you don't apply enough, there may be some decrease in colony numbers, but you won't be successful with a full kill.

Excellent and thorough information San :2tsup:, though just to be a bit pedantic as anyone dealing with termites day to day has to be,:)Termidor is technically not a Barrier treatment. While I agree Termidor Dust is a superb product, it is not always suitable for every situation, including but not limited to baiting systems or bait boxes, especially if you can't aggregate enough termites (label suggests minimum 15,000 termites) in the bait stations. Arguably the highest odds of colony control is the use of a registered termite bait in an active bait station(you can start baiting with a lot less than 15,000 termites), but this is the most time consuming and usually most expensive option.

Welcome and Good luck with all your renovations and as San correctly said subfloor ventilation and drainage for that matter is very important and often neglected. Termidor may be obtainable, but as the label says "to be used by licensed pest control operators only". An even cheaper bait box is this one.
http://www.csiro.au/resources/TermiteBaitBoxTechnique--ci_pageNo-4.html

But always leave the treatment of active termites to a professional.

With all these Termites in Sydney it sound's like I Live at the wrong end of the F3 freeway.:doh: Still I get my share up here too.:B


This post is general in nature and cannot be relied upon, as all situations are different it is strongly recommended that you have at a minimum an annual termite inspection ( more frequently in high risk situations) by a timber pest specialist.

[glen boulton]

gidday i hate

well it looks like you got the termite thing covered and i have nothing to add to that as you are in the hands of very experienced people....

as for the damage and how to fix it.
it's easy

SPEND LOTS OF MONEY !!!!!!!!

sorry there is no shortcut. you need to strip off plasterboard and start hunting. you need to find where the infestation is at its worst and start by removing plasterboard and cleaning out walls to recover your cavity again. my suggestion to you is a room by room basis. find a room that you can remove the floor and wall linings and start from scratch.
it sounds like you have cypress floor boards.... if that is right then i hope they have been laid properly(in between the walls and not under them.). if so then you have an easier job than if it was particle board.
i suppose a few more details would help to give you a better idea, maybe even a few photos. the biggest problem for us contractors is the budget. the right way to do it is expensive.
i will help as much as i can with advise
let me know more about it
good luck with it ... and as the book from the ABC shop says "DON'T PANIC"
i know your not in arther dents situation but at first it feels like you are.

[San]

Thanks Coptotermes,
The CSIRO information is great for anyone who wants to set up their own baits from scratch. The only thing with any baits, as was covered before, is to have it professionally treated. You may only get one window of opportunity, so do it right, and this does not mean you don't need your annual inspections....DO IT! You might find nothing for years, but then your inspector could come across something which is the beginning of a massive, expensive problem, if it were not to be found.

Well there you go Greg, probably more info on termites than you ever really wanted, but at least you know there are people out there who can help you make informed decisions without the fee....Cheers too Copto's, feedback on my own opinions are always good to hear.

San

[I_hate_termites]

Hi Coptotermes,
Thanks for the additional info and on the bait box. Ill be building one this weekend for sure.
Interesting that the termidore is not a barrier but sounds more similar to arsenic dust but a lot better. Glad you put me in the know. I think i needed the barrier that was put in and i may need future treatment with the termidor if the bait box shows up a new colony.
So how does one count 15000 termites ? to be sure he has enough to dust, very quickly i suppose before they all run away ?
I didnt get the bit about the lid on the bait box, if its made of clear plastic wont that allow light in when you look to see if termites are present. Or dont they mind light for a few seconds whilst you are looking.

Cheers
Greg

[I_hate_termites]

Hi Glen
Yes I think your right and i think the only way ill be able to afford to fix it is room by room. From your comments (and from my bulging plasterborads in a few places it sounds like I may have lots of mud hiding behind some of the now besies the pressure coming down from collapsed wood work.

Im planning on working from subfloor up, replacing bearers and joists room by room working up the walls after the floor is solid and finally in a few years doing the roof.

I think i do have cyprus floor boards. The thing that worries me most is how does one replace the eaten wood that is under the walls, can everythingbe jacked up enough to replace wood under walls ? . I dont think my floor boards go under the walls but there is certainly wood under there that the sirting boards are nailded to.

i dont suppose you would know of any good books or websites or information on how to do this would you ? it sounds like you know all about it.

I will post photos after i have started but i scared to start untill i have the knowledge i think i will need to finish what i start and not have the whole house come crashing down on top of me and ill be doing it out of my wage.

Cheers
Greg

[San]

Hi Coptotermes,
Thanks for the additional info and on the bait box. Ill be building one this weekend for sure.
Interesting that the termidore is not a barrier but sounds more similar to arsenic dust but a lot better. Glad you put me in the know. I think i needed the barrier that was put in and i may need future treatment with the termidor if the bait box shows up a new colony.
So how does one count 15000 termites ? to be sure he has enough to dust, very quickly i suppose before they all run away ?
I didnt get the bit about the lid on the bait box, if its made of clear plastic wont that allow light in when you look to see if termites are present. Or dont they mind light for a few seconds whilst you are looking.

Cheers
Greg

Hi Greg,
Don't get confused with Barriers, dust, Foam, liquid....
Termidor can be applied as a soil treatment, ie. "Barrier", and as I said before, is, in my opinion, the best form of barrier, as it is undetectable to foraging termites, where other products are repellent, such as Biflex, or Bifenthrin. They work in different ways.
Termidor is also available in a dust, or a liquid, and can be applied in different ways.
1-Barrier or soil treatment.
2-dust. For treatment of live specimens.
3-foam. Treatment of live specimens. Foaming helps the emulsion to spread into excavated workings.
4-low dose. Less concentrated liquid than used in soil treatmments, and is used to treat live specimens. The concentration of liquid is lower to prevent killing the termites before they are able to reach the nests.
5-As of late last year, Termidor has now been approved for some reticulation systems.

Versatile and effective.
As for the 1500 termites, this is excessive and in reality, is usually impractical.
Colony control can be achieved with less than 200 termites in a bait.
Once the transfer effect has taken place, 1500 termites will easily be "infected", and will be enough to spread throughout the nest.

Greg-Find yourself a Good Pest Controller who recommends Termidor, as they should be competent in its use. Then, when your baits are active, get them in for treatment.

...And start rebuilding your house!

Cheers
San

[luqiyi]

No problems for the info. Termites are my working life, sadly, I'm passionate about getting people the CORRECT information, as there are so many companies portraying the products which make the most money. Ane example: I went to a ladys house on tuesday because she wanted a second quote on a termite protection system for her home. A slab on ground house, I priced up a termidor barrier at around $2200. She immediately asked me if this was the best treatment so I gave her a Termidor DVD to watch which explains the process and the protection. She gave me the go ahead on the spot, and handed me a quote from another company which had a baiting system proposal of $3300, which is pretty standard. But what the proposal didn't have, was the estimated cost of servicing each year attached. So this poor old lady would have purchased a system which required an additional $1200 per year or more for servicing, without even being informed. And what's worse, is that the system she was quoted, still belonged to manufacturers, and if a service agreement was not extended to the following year, the installers had the right to remove it.

I do beleive that the best way to protect a property is with a Termidor Barrier. Sometimes construction methods make it impossible to do a Barrier, and then, I beleive baits come into their own. Baits are a great way to treat problem areas and eradicate termite colonies, but overall, a barrier is working for you 24-7 for up to 8-10 years.

Unfortunately, termidor is not available to the general public, and even if you could get some, I would have a pesty do the application for you, as it is easy to botch a treatment if you don't know what you're doing.

Keeping in mind that during tratment of a live bait, you must not apply too much dust or liquid as you will overdose the termites in the bait, and they will not survive long enough to get back to the nest. Alternatively, if you don't apply enough, there may be some decrease in colony numbers, but you won't be successful with a full kill.
Thank you San for the very very useful information!! :)

[San]

As new and more current information is available to me, I will be sure to post it for all to see. There have been some recent statistics released with regards to the amount of Termite Colonies throughout the country and I'll get a hold of them so you can actually see what you are up against.
I spoke to Stuart Patterson, who is one of the Termidor reps today because we have had a problem termite infestation which is being very difficult to control, and at the end of the conversation, he said to me..."I know you are frustrated, and it is understandable, but at the end of the day, you are trying to control nature, and with the restrictions placed on us as pest managers, with chemicals and contaminants, it's amazing how well we are now doing."

Cheers.

[Algester]

It seems that Termidor is the ants pants and bees knees of Termite treatment. However it seems it won't do any good in my situation. I have a sub floor, a part of which floods when we have prolonged extremely heavy rain. This happens about three of four times a year. I have a bilge pump to get out most of the water but most of it rises up out of the ground and what can't get pumped out sinks back into the dirt.
I've been told by two pest control companies that Termidor is no good in this situation as it will great weaken in all that water. Another two companies are prepared to go ahead and use it regardless, with the proviso of annual of two yearly top-ups of chemical, depending which company I go with.
Is there no chemical that does not dissolve away in water, what of Bifenthrin?