Nitrocelullose lacquer / Shellac / Poly ??

[bernie01]

Hello folks,
I have recently built a guitar amplifier, which is a replica of a 1950's Fender. In those days they covered the pine cabinets with a heavy cotton 'tweed' cloth, which was then sealed with nitrocellulose lacquer. These days most builders use Shellac or a tinted polyurethane product. I think this is because the 'nitro' yellowed with age and they are attempting to get that aged look 'right now'.
Anyway, I glued the tweed to the cabinet using a contact cement gel, and later noticed that the recommended clean up material is metho. So it seems I would be tempting fate to use Shellac.
The alternative is to use a poly product like Estapol (can get that in a spray can, handy) or try and find someone who can spray nitro for me (maybe a furniture repairer ?)
Any recommendations on nitro products, their pro/cons? If you want to see the cabinet, go here:
http://www.gretschpages.com/discus/viewtopic.php?t=4282
A finished one looks like this:
http://www.rhsdesign.com/fender51/57deluxeasm.htm
(That guy actually used nitro, not shellac)
Your comments would be appreciated. I'm in Wollongong by the way.
Thanks, Bernie.

[craigb]

I had no idea that there were enthusiasts that made replicas of old Amps. Guitars sure but Amps no.
For my own enlightment, what is the reason that people go for the replica amps? Is it the sound quality or what?

I'm just curious.

Cheers
Craig

[bernie01]

Hi Craig,
I guess it's a combination of things, but yes, mostly it's about tone. These amps are valve circuits which are 'point to point' wired (ie, they dont use a printed circuit board) and they sound great. You can of course still buy valve amps but they are printed circuts board which aren't that robust either.
And of course there's the sastisfaction of saying 'I made that' which I'm sure you understand! Also, the originals go for insane prices now (saw one like mine advertised for $5000 recently in Sydney, mine cost me about $1000 to make)
Regards, Bernie.

[soundman]

the nitro lacquer will be thinners bassed which may give you problems with the contact cement also. the estipol ia turps bassed that will also have issues with the contact.

the original tweed fenders were probably glued with pva or something similar Im not shure.

howerver
If you go light on with whatever you use yo may get away with it.

as long as you dont saturate the cloth the contact will probably hold. Make sure that the contact has gone well off befor you try.

If you spray the finish the solvents disipate quite rapidly.
If you havn't stretched the cloth too much near the corners & round the edges that will go in your favor also.

I have in the past "freshend up" black carpeted cabs with black nitro & havn't had any issues with the carpet.

jut by the way where did you get the tweed cloth from?

[bernie01]

Thanks, but now I'm really worried! Nitro/thinners/turps will affect it too? Wow.
The originals used animal 'hide' glue. I got the tweed from Retrosound:
www.retrosound.com.au , they use nitro and shellac but probably use the hide glue. I think I'll have to glue some samples to a piece of board and test everything first.

[Cliff Rogers]

G'day.

Hey Bernie, there's actually an Australian & New Zealand Amp builders/collectors group on yahoo here....
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ANZAmps/

It's worth joining for the local contacts.

There are a cople of blokes that have made VERY nice fender replica amps & rebuilds/restorations.

I have a bit of a collection of old stuff & a few that I'm building of my own.
I have a Fender Bassman 100 Silverface made in USA,
a Jansen 75 Bassman made in NZ &
a Vase Trendsetter Delux 60 made in Brisbane.

I'm trying to clone a Fender Blackface Bandmaster with the AB763 circuit &
also building a roll-your-own based on a Matchless Spitfire with a Matchless DC30 EF86 2nd Channel.

I've also made a couple of bombproof speaker cabs out of 19mm MDF.

[bernie01]

Whoa there!!! I got this all wrong!!!
I just went and read the label on the tin, intending to contact the manufacturer. The product is 'Gelfix Contact Cement' from 'Norton Abrasives'.
Anyway, the cleanup instructions says use 'Mineral Turps', not metho !!!
I must have been high on the fumes when I read it the other day!!
So I'm thinking that Shellac will be OK, (and probably nitro too) whilst oil based products like Estapol might be dodgy. Phew!!
So maybe someone can now tell me where I can source good quality Shellac in the Southern Sydney / Wollongong area? And after reading an old thread here, I believe I should even use a quality 'metho'? From where?
So sorry for the confusion!!!
Thanks to all, Bernie.

[craigb]

Whoa there!!! I got this all wrong!!!
So maybe someone can now tell me where I can source good quality Shellac in the Southern Sydney / Wollongong area?

Well I know that Neil, the owner of this BB sells shellac and I know it's very good. However, you will need to do mail order from him. But that should only take a couple of days.

www.ubeaut.com.au

If you simply can't wait, then the Mother of Pearl Trading Company in Edgecliff in Sydney supply good quality shellac in both button and flake.

www.motherofpearl.com

[bernie01]

Thanks.
I've been told by a local furniture restorer that Feast Watson products are available locally (Illawarra Industrial Supplies); either in flake form (Amber) or pre-mixed (clear or amber). IIS also stock 100% metho (IMS).
Are Feast Watson products OK quality?

[craigb]

Yes I think their quality is o.k. Only thing to be aware of if you buy pre-mixed is to know how long it's been sitting around for as it goes off after about 12 months.

I don't know if they have a "mixed on" date on their stuff.

[bernie01]

Thanks again Craig et al.
I was just speaking to a guy who said it's OK until it's opened, then it starts to go off. He also said if it's gone off it goes cloudy, so I should be able to tell.
Anyway, I'll check it out and maybe they have a date on the label. I could always just mix my own then I know it's fresh but I think the clear/blonde stuff
will look better than the amber on my cabinet. I'm after a light 'honey' finish like the one shown in the second link in my original post.
Some I've seen that used amber shellac turn out more a 'weak black tea' colour.
Regards, Bernie.

[craigb]

I can only say again to check out Neil's stuff. He does a premixed white shellac which doesn't alter the colour of timber at all.
His shellac also has a "mixed on" date.

He also has a hard white shellac now that might be useful on an Amplifier box for protection.

[bernie01]

Thanks Craig.
My girlfriend was driving past Mother of Pearl Trading in Rushcutters Bay today so had her grab 250g of the 'Blonde Shellac'. Will get mysef a bottle of IMS in the 'Gong next week and give it a whirl!
Incidentally, the helpful gent at MoP said if the Blonde Shellac wasn't quite dark enough for me (I'm after a light 'honey' look) to add tea leaves (or coffee) to colour to taste. Might experiment with a tea bag and some metho to see what happens. Anyone ever tried this? Anyway the first coat will be the plain Blonde and I'll see how it looks from there.
Regards, Bernie.