10inch table saw comparison

[Dengue]

With the help of Mr Rudd's bonus, I have decided to stimulate the economy by lashing out on a fair dinkum sawbench, and retiring the old Triton outfit ( although I will sorely miss the sliding panel table extension).

There are two saws in my price range that look pretty good, and are available locally, so I would like some help in choosing. I would welcome any users to provide the pros and cons , or even recommendations for either of the following that they might have experience with. Both are similarly priced at around $1,300, and are available locally.

1. JET JPS-10TS Proshop with Cast Iron Wings
http://www.jettoolshop.com.au/products.php?s_category_name=2&shopping_cart_id=4233



2. Carbatec 10in saw in cabinet base, model MJ2325B
http://www.carbatec.com.au/machinery-for-wood-and-metal-working/table-saws/cabinet-saws/carba-tec-10-cabinet-saw

All help and suggestions very much welcome.

regards,
Jill

[switt775]

OK, first I must state I have no hands on experience with either saw, so my comments will be general in nature.

1. Lots of positive comments about JET quality on this forum, few negatives.

2. JET saw has 5/8 arbor, so potentially may be able to take a dado brade (don't see anything in the specs but worth asking). Carba tec saw definitely won't. You may not think you need one, but one day you might.

3. Although the Carba tec saw appears to have a much stronger motor (3HP vs 1 3/4 HP), this may not be true. Chinese HP ratings tend to be very optimistic. In any case, 1 3/4 HP is plenty unless you plan to spend all day ripping 3" thick jarrah.

Given the above, if I were choosing between the two, I'd have a hard time going past the Jet.

[silentC]

I would go for the Jet. It has a wider rip capacity and it's likely to be of better quality all round. The fence looks like a true Beisemeyer clone, the one on the Carbatec looks like one of the cheap ones they put on entry level saws.

The motor power is a potential issue and that's why you're getting a better quality saw for the same price as the Carbatec. However I suspect that you'll have no problems with it because there are other Jet users here who do serious cabinet work with a 1 3/4 HP motor.

FWIW my saw has a 3HP motor but I rarely need it.

[JourneyMan]

I'm not qualified to comment on the quality of either saw, but that's a great price for the Jet. They are $1,625 in Sydney.

Ryan

[jchappo]

Go the Jet.
I was disappointed with the fence on the Carbatec.
Bought the Jet and have never regretted the decision.
The 1 3/4HP has never bogged down and has a 10 amp plug, the fence is very nice and the 5/8" arbour will take a dado set (I have the Northwood set).
On table arbour lock makes blade changes very easy.
Also has left tilt.
I find the mitre gauge to be reasonably accurate with no sloppiness.
The dust extraction is adequate with a 1HP dust extractor.
My saw is mounted on the Jet heavy duty base, and can be moved around the shed easily

[rdog]

I have had a jet proshop saw for 9 mts my( 3rd table saw in 5 years ).
others were triton 2000 then a carbatec contractor type saw its fence
was no good it would not lock up square .
the jet has an excellent fence, good finish , and adequate power i am very happy with it.:)

[Dengue]

Bad news!!! The JET shop in Townsville advises that the $1,300 price was for the sawbench only. The price they gave me did not include the rails, the fence or the mitre fence. Damn, damn, damn! Actual cost is $1,600+, with up to $200 transport to Townsville :(

regards,
Jill

[JourneyMan]

The mitre fence is not such a biggie, but not including the rails and fence?!?!?

For you info... I just got a quote from them today for $120 freight to Penrith outside of Sydney! Sneaky buggers...

[Wongo]

Wow the prices have gone up some much in the past 5 years. :oo:

I paid $6,250 for 5 machines and they are now worth $10,240. I am so glad I did it.

[BrettC]

I got my JPS-10TS from these guys http://www.majorwoodworking.com.au/catalog/default.php
FWIW I've never had any issues with the power and have been using a dado blade in it no problems. I agree not incuding the fence in the price of the saw is a bit iffy. Would they really sell it without the fence:?

[jchappo]

The Jet specs have always included the fence, rails and mitre gauge.
Is a retailer legally allowed to sell less than the manufacturers advertised contents?

Its like buying a car without the steering wheel :(

[Dengue]

As in most big decisions, the end result was driven by available funds. Although I liked the Jet machine, and it's better build quality, by the time I paid $150 for shipping , it was $1750+ all up delivered to Townsville, complete with a fence and rail.

I found a Carbatec 10in saw in cabinet base, model MJ2325B available locally from Glenfords for $1,200 with free delivery to my shed, fully assembled. This was the last one of a batch. The next order came in at $1350, and in the C/tec catalogue they are shown at $1600.

Could not justify the additional $550 for the JET :(

Things I liked about the Carbatec were:
1. The large 1200 x 800 cast iron table surface, and the 1500mm rails
2. The riving knife, which stays the same distance from the saw as it is raised and lowered, unlike the fixed splitter blade on the JET,
3. The dust extraction on the sawblade cover ( there is none on the JET) which is coupled into the 4" main outlet,
4. The ability to add my excellent Triton sliding extension table to the LH side of the table. (there is a great post and photos on this forum for this). If I ever need this, it would be for sawing a huge panel. http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=17759

The concerns I have are the fence, which of course is a crucial item for accurate wood work. Time will tell. Also, the main power switch could have been a lot bigger. It just has a small 'Off ' button which will be difficult to find in a hurry.

I will miss the opportunity of installing a dado (The JET has this), but have survived so far without one. The 1 inch arbour is a nuisance, requiring the use of sleeves. All my current 10 inch sawblades have a 25mm hole.

Thanks to everyone for their very helpful comments. They certainly helped me!

At last I have a proper saw bench.:wink:

regards,
Jill

[jchappo]

Congratulations on your new saw.
I am sure you will enjoy it for many years :)

[Dengue]

The new Carbatec saw arrived. The mitre slots on the main table are different widths ( 19.0 mm v. 19.1mm). Carbatec reckon there is no guarantee that another table would be any different.

The blade and slots are not parallel, and there is a significant difference in parallelism at 45 and 90 deg., indicating I have to insert shims between the arbor and the table too.

Took me 6 hours of trial and error ( actually hit and miss) to get the blade parallel to 4 thou at 90deg., down from 10 thou delivered. No adjusting screws or set points, just a hammer and block of wood. At one stage the deviation was 20 thou.

What is the experience with other users? Is this the norm?

Would I be entitled to return this saw table and ask for my money back?

regards,
Jill

[munruben]

I found a Carbatec 10in saw in cabinet base, model MJ2325B available locally from Glenfords for $1,200 with free delivery to my shed, fully assembled. This was the last one of a batch. The next order came in at $1350, and in the C/tec catalogue they are shown at $1600.The catalogue price for the MJ2325B from Carba-tec is currently $1049 and I was in Carba-tec a couple of weeks ago and it was on special at $949.
I have one of these saws and have found it to be quite satisfactory for my needs. I was a bit worried about the 15amp setup but it runs with no problems on my 10amp circuit.
The fence would be my main criticism. It does not lock in square to the blade without a bit of fiddling around. I took my fence back to Carba-tec and they adjusted it for me. I didn't realize it could be adjusted but it can with the 4 grub screws. Another gripe of mine would be the wheel that winds the blade up and down. It is secured by 2 grub screws and they do come loose from time to time and that is a pain in the neck.
I would like to have had the luxury of dado blade too but that apparantly comes at a price which I didnt want to pay.

The saw has never failed no matter what I have put through it, it handles the work with no problems.
I think overall the MJ2325B is not bad value for money and if the Jet is the price you quoted in your post then it is not fair to compare the 2 saws. You cannot expect a product that cost considerable less to be of the same quality as the more expensive one. The saw (MJ2325B) comes with a 3 year warranty from Carba-tec and they are pretty good with their backup service. For the money, I dont think it's a bad buy.

If the saw doesn't perform as the retailers led you to believe then you would have a case for a refund. Good luck with your new saw.

[silentC]

Getting the mitre slot parallel with the blade should just be a matter of unbolting the table from the base and rotating it fractionally. Clamp a dial gauge to your mitre gauge so that it is touching a tooth at the front of the blade, then slide it to the back and move the table until both readings are the same.

Mine wasn't exactly square but it was easy to fix.

[JourneyMan]

NSW Department of Fair Trading regarding refunds:

"The goods consumers purchase must be of merchantable quality. Goods and services supplied to consumers must also be reasonably fit for any particular purpose made known by the consumer to the supplier except where the consumer does not rely, or it is unreasonable for the consumer to rely, on the skill or judgement of the supplier.
Consumers may ask for a refund if the goods purchased:

have a basic, serious fault that was not known by the consumer at the time of purchase
do not do the job that the consumer was led to believe they would do
do not match the sample the consumer was shown, or
do not fit their description.
Consumers and traders may negotiate other solutions such as a repair or replacement but under these circumstances a consumer has a legal right to cancel a contract (rescind) and receive a refund if there is a breach of that contract.
Where a dispute arises between a consumer and a trader, the Office of Fair Trading can negotiate with the parties to achieve an acceptable solution. However, Fair Trading is unable to direct the parties to a particular course of action. Only a court or tribunal is empowered to make a determination in such circumstances."

I would argue that you could refund it on this basis. But i guess it depends on how well you argue it :~

[Dengue]

Many thanks for your considered response, John, (post #15 above) it certainly puts things in perspective for me. I might be making a mountain out of a molehill, for the price that I paid ($1,200).

All the same, I don't think it unreasonable to have the two slots of equal width, so that I don't have to use two mitre gauges and jigs.

kind regards,
Jill

[silentC]

If you do decide to send it back, I wouldn't mention that you've been belting it with a hammer and a block of wood.

[munruben]

All the same, I don't think it unreasonable to have the two slots of equal width, so that I don't have to use two mitre gauges and jigs.kind regards,
JillI agree and I think you would be able to claim a refund on this alone. If they have another one in stock, why dont you see if the slots on that table has equal sized slots and if so ask them to replace the TS for you. You say that they told you if they got you another one, there would be no guarantee it would be any different from the one you have, well I would insist that they replace the one you have now and if its the same, you are certainly no worse off and you may find it will be "perfect" So you have something to gain at least.
On the other hand, you may find that .1mm may be acceptable. I have just checked my saw slots and they both seem to measure the same with an ordinary ruler but there is just a hint of movement in the mitre gauge when its in either one of the slots. I haven't found this to be a problem.and haven't noticed it before until you mentioned it.

[colbra]

Hi JillB
I have just been reading about your problem with the table saw and was woundering how things ended up, I will be going down the same path in a couple of months, so far as buying a new table saw
Regards Colbra

[Dengue]

Hi, I have returned the original saw table and taken delivery of a new TCS - 10HB cabinet saw from Carbatec for $2,000. Guess what - the mitre slots are also of different widths. Am in the process of removing the grease on the worm gears and the trunnion bearings, and applying dry lubricant.

Looks like I have used too much dry lubricant ( Dry Glide with PTFE (http://www.crcind.com.au/catalogue.nsf/web_brands/Dry+Glide+with+PTFE?openDocument)) on the worm gears, as it is now much more difficult to wind the blade up and down :(

regards,
Jill

[Wongdai]

I'm starting to think that maybe Carbatec kit is not so great. :(

[munruben]

Hi, I have returned the original saw table and taken delivery of a new TCS - 10HB cabinet saw from Carbatec for $2,000. Guess what - the lots are also of different widths. Just can't win sometimes Jill. :((

[Big Shed]

How much do the mitre slots vary by Jill?

[Dengue]

19.0 and 19.1mm Fred, enough to make the mitre gauge a sloppy fit in the larger one

[wally peat]

19.0 and 19.1mm Fred, enough to make the mitre gauge a sloppy fit in the larger one


Geez Jill, you made me go and check my slots in the TSC 10HB. The slots in my saw are 19.4, both the same, the bar in the mitre gauge is 19.39, so by my reckoning, not enough to get concerned about. At least they are both the same width.

Funny thing is, I've been using the same mitre gauge in the 17" Carba-Tec bandsaw, and the slot in that table is 19.41, but I've never noticed the slackness. I guess it's just the degree of wander you get with a bandsaw anyway.

Sorry to hear that you didn't get the same size slots in your saw top. I had issues with a router table wing for my TS, and the guys at Carba-Tec were as helpful as could be. They replaced the top with no questions asked, and didn't want the old one freighted back. (I'm in Townsville too).

Failing an offer of replacement from them, you could take the top off and have a mil machined off the narrower slot so that you could shim the mitre gauge bar to fit both. I've done all that table top adjustment before, and it's just a few bolts to remove the table. Pretty heavy to lug around, but no probs to remove from the machine.

Good luck with the corrections.

[Big Shed]

19.0 and 19.1mm Fred, enough to make the mitre gauge a sloppy fit in the larger one

That also depends on what size the mitre gauge bar is, if that is well below 19.0 mm then yes you wil have a sloppy fit.

To be honest, I would have thought that 0.1mm variance, all of 4 thousands of an inch, was outside manufacturing specifications for a machine of that calibre.

I haven't measured the mitre slots on my TS10L yet, will do so tomorrow. But I will say that the mitre gauge supplied with any of the tablesaws I have looked at, and that includes the one supplied with mine, is not of the highest calibre.

I went out and bought an Incra 1000SE gauge and have been very happy with that, but it does cost quite a bit extra.

I think it is very easy to fall in the trap of wanting to pay for a Holden and expecting to receive a Mercedes.

[Big Shed]

Just went out and braved the cold.

Took several readings in each mitre slot, fairly consistent, with the lowest being 19.08 and the highest being 19.12, so a maximum variance of .04 mm or 1.5 thou. Not bad.

As you have only given your readings to 1 decimal place, if I did the same then they would all be 19.1. Be interesting to see what your readings are to 2 decimal places on a digital caliper?

[damian]

Incra V27's are relatively cheap nowdays, if you don't need too many stops. I would prefer a longer slide though.

The incras have a nylon bush and screw. You tighten the screw until the bush is hard against the sides of the slot then back it off a tad, result smooth sliding and virtually no play. Takes seconds.

wally peat: You don't want to sell the old wing do you ?

[wally peat]

Damian, I'd be happy to sell the defective router wing for the table saw, but you may not want it when you factor in that (a) the reason it was defective was that the slots for fixing the router to the table were incorrectly machined, making them so thin that they broke out as soon as I strapped the triton into place, and (b) the freight on this sucker from Townsville to Brisbane was the reason Carba-Tec didn't want it back in the first place.

Other than those small considerations, it's a bargain, and I'm happy to do business. PM me if you are really interested and we'll see if there's a mutually satisfactory outcome.

[paul k]

Everything said , make sure you can fit a dado on there .

Paul , k