Reality Check

[funkychicken]

Okay I wanna build a 12x6 timber framed shed (eventually.)
What kind of sizes and amount of timber would be needed for the frame?
How hard will it be / how much will it cost to get an engineer to approve the design?

I can get hardwood (eucalypts) from work for decent prices, or cypress from in town for (most likely) alot more. Termites aren't rampant around here but they do exist.

Cheers,
Andrew

[Rossluck]

Hello Andrew,

Are you talking about building a 6X12 metre shed? That's pretty big.
Are you building on a slab?
You need to draw up a basic design, then you can take that to a drafting consultant to work it into plans suitable for council. The consultant should also be able to organise any engineering approvals.

The hassle and the expense of all of this is why we tend to buy pre-fab steel sheds like Titan and so on. When they supply a shed they also give you all of the plans and specs you need for council approval. You are more than capable of erecting a prefab metal shed.

By the way. Those quiet and invisible termites in your area will become rampant whenever you provide food for them. Place a lump of dry timber in your back yard and watch it disappear. :D

[snapman007]

Hi last weeks KFC,
You shouldn't need an engineer if ur in Qld but I believe u will need plans drawn by a Building Designer if the structure is higher than 2.4m & more than 10m2. (u talking metres or feet?) should be someone on here that can sort u out with plans when u need them, if not PM me & eye'l help get ewe sorted.
Cheers,
Paul

[echnidna]

Theres various types of timber framed sheds.
Stud walls like a house.
Pole frame (often metal clad)

My shed will be about 12.6 x 6 when I get round to it.
Been distracted by a few unavoidable things.

Weatherboards over stud walls, coupled rafters with collar ties and NO trusses
all designed from timber span tables so I won't need to use nor pay for an engineer.

Wall plates 90 x 45 pine
Studs 90 x 35 at 600mm centres
Rafters 200x50 F7 oregon (I've already scrounged them)
Roof/ceiling battens 70 x 45 or 90 x 45.
I'll use concrete stumps, not a slab foundation. I'll put a concrete floor in after the stumps are in. After the sheds built I'll drop a floating floor over the slab.

I'm considering treated pine for wall framing

Narrow windows under the eaves all around to let light in but not the direct sun.
Very inclined to fit ceilings/sarking & insulation.

ps you're welcome to a copy of my plans (though they are not finished yet ).

[snapman007]

There u go, you can use someone elses plans then get your own site plan drawn.

[artme]

Some good info and offers of help here my feathered friend.

The idea of building on concrete stumps and putting the slab in later (Echidna) will help to spread your spending spree out of a longer time.

We are all awaiting the call to a working bee and, therefore, your mother's fine cooking.:D:D:p

[echnidna]

While treated pine is appealing to me the wombat saw mill has opened other timber opportunities and the wall frames might end up being made from home sawn macrocarpra. I've got a few logs in the backyard and access to many more logs if I want them.

I used to have a timber grading lisence many years ago but the system changed so it's gone. But as I recall ungraded timber is regarded as F4 so I'll just use F4 span tables.
I have designed to class 1 standard not to outbuilding standards just to ensure a little flexibility if I ever need to convert it from a shed to another use.

[echnidna]

As Artme noted putting a slab in later gives you an immediate workshop.

[funkychicken]

Hello Andrew,

Are you talking about building a 6X12 metre shed? That's pretty big.
Bah, it's tiny



By the way. Those quiet and invisible termites in your area will become rampant whenever you provide food for them. Place a lump of dry timber in your back yard and watch it disappear. :D
I'll test that


Hi last weeks KFC,
You shouldn't need an engineer if ur in Qld but I believe u will need plans drawn by a Building Designer if the structure is higher than 2.4m & more than 10m2. (u talking metres or feet?) should be someone on here that can sort u out with plans when u need them, if not PM me & eye'l help get ewe sorted.
Cheers,
Paul

Ta:2tsup:




Weatherboards over stud walls, coupled rafters with collar ties and NO trusses

ps you're welcome to a copy of my plans (though they are not finished yet ).

Sounds good, I was thinking of a cottage look. So weatherboard outside, stud walls.
Can I borrow those plans:-

What's the argument about rafters vs trusses?

[echnidna]

Rafters come out of span tables whereas trusses have to be designed by a qualified engineer.

But you could do coupled rafters as a truss like assembly.

I'll try and whack a pdf on here.
Note the collar ties need to be 1/3rd of total roof height above the top plate.

The drawing in the pdf is vector format so you can print out at any scale you want (if you have a printer big enough)

Its only a rough drawing at this stage and I didn't have span tables when I drew it so some revision is necessary.

I'm thinking of eliminating the drawn windows in favor of clear polycarb ones between the rafters and having a narrow eaves. This will admit indirect light in around the top of both side walls without losing the wall area of standard windows. This means that instead of solid blocking between the rafters they will need to be strutted herringbone style to prevent the rafters racking.

[echnidna]

With this design which is a cathedral ceiling with collar ties a ceiling can be fitted on top of the rafters and under the roof/ceiling purlins (ie battens in this instance)

[funkychicken]

I've worked out a price on F17 Hardwood, from the bottom up:

Posts 150x150x1500 x 15 $867
Bearers 125x75x3000 x 12 $538
Floor Joists 125x50x3000 x 48 $1437
Flooring 100x25x12000 x 30 $1137
Wall Plates 100x50x36000 x 2 $478
Studs 100x38x2.4x 60 $727
Weatherboards $4032
Rafters 150x50x4000 x 40 $1915
Ceiling Joists 150x50x6000 x20 $1436
Ridge Board 150x50x12000 x 1 $143
Battens 75x38x12000 x 12 $492


$13247 in total. Yikes!
Plus $1600 for Zincalume roof. $14847 all up.
The biggest cost is Weatherboards, solution: Have the shed clad in Zincalume for $600 or so.
Another big cost is ceiling joists. Can I just have shorter collar ties instead?
Rafters are a big cost. I worked out the price with 600mm spacing, can I use 900mm?
Instead of 100mm wide wall plates and studs I can use 75mm wide, correct? That'll save me $376

If I choose the cheapest options the total will be $8844

What size and span can collar ties be?

[echnidna]

where are you getting your timber from?
The weatherboards are more than double bunnings price for new baltic

[echnidna]

Without going into span tables and checking things out.
You could use anything from F5 up, F17 is over the top, which is why its high priced.
75 x 38 should be ok for studs and plates if there is a stud directly under each rafter though I like to double my plates as you can get very straight walls with doubled plates.
150 x 50 rafters should be ok at 900 cts maybe even at 1200 cts perhaps even 1800 cts with F17.
An unstrutted ridge board needs to be a minimum 25 wider than your rafters but it can be 25 thick, so you need 175 x 25 for ridge board
You don't need ceiling joists unless you want a low flat ceiling.
You can put a ceiling on top of the rafters cathedral ceiling style.
For coupled rafters with an unstrutted ridge and no underpurlins you will need a collar tie on every set of rafters. 75 x 50 up to 4.2 span, 100 x 50 over 4,2 span.

[jackliveshere]

Hey Funky,

Sounds like an ambitious project you are undertaking :) But it'll be a good shed once you've finished it. Just thought I'd put across some of my thoughts as I'm in Queensland as well & working in the building industry.

Are you planning to build this yourself mate? From what I gathered you are - any new construction work over the value of $1100 needs to be licensed. Easiest way would be to use someone's builders number - hard bit is finding someone willing to do so. Dunno if you or someone you know is licensed, just thought I'd bring it up.

For overall costs, I reckon there'd be a few more areas to look at. I know you've costed the bulk of the timber and framing materials, but there is also plenty of other costs involved. For example:
- Machine for post holes (would be a dog digging these by hand)
- Concrete for posts
- Fixings - plenty of these....things like bolts for framing, nails for cladding, roof screws, etc
- Windows
- Access doors
- Electrical (power points, lights, etc)
- Couldn't see anything about internal linings - are you doing that or just leaving exposed frame?
- Drafting fees
- Council fees
- Licensing/BSA fees
- Painting (assuming you'll paint the outside)
- steps up to floor (anything 190mm above natural ground level will require additional steps)

That's a couple of areas off the top of my head that you'll need to look at to get an idea of total cost of the shed.

I'll second what Echnidna about the weatherboard cladding - where are you getting that pricing from? I did a roughie calculation based on using Hardiplank cladding and was about $1500 for the whole shed. Hey about what about something like yellow tongue sheeting for your floor? Would be something like $400-500 instead of $1137 for your hardwood.

Also, make sure that the timber you get is appropriately termite treated as required by BCA & Australian Standards. That is H4 treated for your stumps in the ground, then H2 & H3 treated for the rest of your structural members. Though there are a whole swag of naturally resistant timbers listed in Appendix C of AS3660.1 so if you used them you'll probably be right.

Anyway, just a couple of points to ponder on.

Cheers,

WILL

[weisyboy]

i think you should shop around for better prices.

• Posts 150x150x1500 x 15 = 22.5m @ 46.50 = $1046.25
• Bearers 125x75x3000 x 12 = 36m @ 12.75 = $459
• Floor Joists 125x50x3000 x 48 = 144m @ 7.50 = $1080
• Flooring 100x25x12000 x 30 = 360m @ 2.75 = $990
• Wall Plates 100x50x36000 x 2 = 72m @ 5.50 = $412.50
• Studs 100x38x2.4x 60 =144m @ 5.25 = $756
• Weatherboards 36 m x 19 = 684m @ 4.68= $3201.12 $3734.64
• Rafters 150x50x4000 x 40 = 160m @ 9.25 = $1480
• Ceiling Joists 150x50x6000 x20 =120m @ 9.25 = $1110
• Ridge Board 150x50x12000 x 1 = 12m @ 9.25 = $111
• Battens 75x38x12000 x 12 =144m @ 4 = $576
• Timber: $11755.39

Colourbond staret profile
15 x 9m = 135m @10.75 = $1451.25

Total: $13206.64

i just saved you over 2 grand

[funkychicken]

All the timber is coming from the sawmill where I work. We are the cheapest around and we've proved it. The weather boards are $7 a metre


F17 is over the top, which is why its high priced.


At work we have Fence Grade, Building Grade and Select Grade. Anything that falls into building grade gets called F17. It's not definite F17




Are you planning to build this yourself mate? From what I gathered you are - any new construction work over the value of $1100 needs to be licensed. Easiest way would be to use someone's builders number - hard bit is finding someone willing to do so. Dunno if you or someone you know is licensed, just thought I'd bring it up.

Yep I'll be building it myself with the help of Dad and any forum members who wish to help out:wink:
Hmm...I just met a builder, name's Jack and he lives in Townsville. Maybe I can use his builders number:think:



For overall costs, I reckon there'd be a few more areas to look at. I know you've costed the bulk of the timber and framing materials, but there is also plenty of other costs involved. For example:
- Machine for post holes (would be a dog digging these by hand) True, How much do you reckon half a days hire is?
- Concrete for posts
- Fixings - plenty of these....things like bolts for framing, nails for cladding, roof screws, etc
- Windows I'll be putting in alot of them
- Access doors
- Electrical (power points, lights, etc)
- Couldn't see anything about internal linings - are you doing that or just leaving exposed frame? Exposed frame
- Drafting fees
- Council fees
- Licensing/BSA fees. How much do you reckon these'll be?

- Painting (assuming you'll paint the outside) Nup, I'm after the natural look.
- steps up to floor (anything 190mm above natural ground level will require additional steps)

That's a couple of areas off the top of my head that you'll need to look at to get an idea of total cost of the shed.

I'll second what Echnidna about the weatherboard cladding - where are you getting that pricing from? I did a roughie calculation based on using Hardiplank cladding and was about $1500 for the whole shed. Hey about what about something like yellow tongue sheeting for your floor? Would be something like $400-500 instead of $1137 for your hardwood.

Also, make sure that the timber you get is appropriately termite treated as required by BCA & Australian Standards. That is H4 treated for your stumps in the ground, then H2 & H3 treated for the rest of your structural members. Though there are a whole swag of naturally resistant timbers listed in Appendix C of AS3660.1 so if you used them you'll probably be right.


Hardiplank isn't the look I want, same for the yellow tongue floor.

If I use the timbers on the list do I still have to treat them?


i think you should shop around for better prices.

• Posts 150x150x1500 x 15 = 22.5m @ 46.50 = $1046.25
• Bearers 125x75x3000 x 12 = 36m @ 12.75 = $459
• Floor Joists 125x50x3000 x 48 = 144m @ 7.50 = $1080
• Flooring 100x25x12000 x 30 = 360m @ 2.75 = $990
• Wall Plates 100x50x36000 x 2 = 72m @ 5.50 = $412.50
• Studs 100x38x2.4x 60 =144m @ 5.25 = $756
• Weatherboards 36 m x 19 = 684m @ 4.68= $3201.12 $3734.64
• Rafters 150x50x4000 x 40 = 160m @ 9.25 = $1480
• Ceiling Joists 150x50x6000 x20 =120m @ 9.25 = $1110
• Ridge Board 150x50x12000 x 1 = 12m @ 9.25 = $111
• Battens 75x38x12000 x 12 =144m @ 4 = $576
• Timber: $11755.39


And where did you get those prices from?

[weisyboy]

thats what i see hardwood for and what most other mills charge when u get out of brisbane.

you can easily get 175mm x 25mm x 6mm wheatherboards under $5.

all hardwood must be graded and structural grade must be graded to AS2082. you cant just have construction grade and call it F17 it must be graded and sold in each grade unless you are selling ungraded timber. structural hardwood can grade anyware from F5 to F34 depending on species.

you can get a list of timbers with there class listed i did have it but i cant find it at present anyone know witch one it is?
your work should have it.

[funkychicken]

I forgot to add the bulk discount 5% or so, plus employee discount (whatever the boss gives me)

Where exactly Carl?

[weisyboy]

those prices are my list prices. no discounts.

sawmills with similar pricing well muckets sawmill at ladely for one.

[funkychicken]

I'd like a copy of those price lists

[weisyboy]

i can send u my price list and give muckets a call for theres and theyl fax it to u.

[funkychicken]

According to "Barry's introduction to construction of buildings" Collar roofs (rooves?) can be a maximum span of 4.5m. Slight problem there

[rhancock]

What about using some recycled timber? Caylamax (http://www.caylamax.com.au/)at Brendale has decent stock, its docked, denailed and sorted, and they have decent quantities. If you email them the list you put together they'll tell you what they've got and give you a price.

[artme]

Couple of points FC.

# Don't think 900 instead of 600 spacings is wise or allowable.

# Appreciate your desire for aesthetic appeal but you also need to be practical.Yellow tongue for the flooring is a great idea and is much less time consuming to put down.

# Recycled timber may be a possibility but you will need to carefully check costs and whether the codes and authorities allow its use. Remember that it is also much harder and you would have to use a nail gun - actually a good idea anyway.

# If you decided to go with colourbond cladding you would then have to insulate, although you might want to do that anyway.

[funkychicken]

I've looked through span tables and have revised my list


Posts 100x100 $469
Bearers 200x75 $887
Joists 125x50 $1194
Plates 100x75 $818
Studs 100x38 $864
Door Lintel 100x50 $6
Window Lintels 125x50 $12 each
Double Door Lintel 150x50 $12
Rafters 125x38 $560
Collar Ties 100x38 $192
Ridgeboard 175x25 $72
Flooring 100x25 $2160
Weather Beards 175x25 $3192


$4744 for the frame
$6904 inc. Floor
$10096 inc. Weather beards

15 posts in a 5x3 configuration
3 bearers running across 5 posts each
Joists and Studs at 600mm centres
Rafters at 1200mm centres

If the following is correct:
Where rafters or trusses are supported directly over studs, the top plate may be the same size as the common studs in the same wall.
Then the top plate can be 100x38, coming to a total of $172 instead of $409
And if the following is correct:
Where wall studs are directly in line with the floor joists, the bottom plate may be 75x38.
Then the bottom plate can be 100x38 (correct?) and will save me another $237

I'm happy with $4744 for the frame, I just need to find cheap flooring and cheap weather beards. Recycled flooring is fine, I'll have a look at the timber recyclers in town.
If I can get the weather beards for $2000 then I'll be all smiles

Note: The updated prices are bulk price, the previous ones were retail price.
I worked out the weatherboard price taking into account there'll be no boards over the windows and doors.

[weisyboy]

remember you will have to order more wheatherboards than u need as you will have ofcuts thet are not long enough to use.

same goes for teh framing timber unless u get it all in exactyl the right length and make sure you make no mistakes you will have to order slightly over length and extra peices.


a cheeper way to do it is to get some logs and get tehm cut you will come in under half the cost. logs are not hard to find especialy if you offer a bit of cash or firewood.

[echnidna]

According to "Barry's introduction to construction of buildings" Collar roofs (rooves?) can be a maximum span of 4.5m. Slight problem there

I understand that is NOT an Australian book.
The Europeans and Yanks have snow roof loads to contend with so their methods and spans do not apply to australia
Don't use a non aussie book.


Collar ties must be installed in the centre third of the rafter span.
Thickness to be same as the common rafters.
Min size 100 x 38 or 75 x 50 are stipulated for collar tie spans up to 4200
and 125 x 38 or 100 x 50 over 4200 collar tie span.
So a 4200 collar tie span with the tie placed at limit of the lower third of span means the total combined roof span is 6300mm.

[echnidna]

Have a look at this pdf (http://www.burnside.sa.gov.au/webdata/resources/files/1148_08_plans.pdf)
From the Timber Development Assoc Of S.A.

Note the Oz standards apply nationwide.
Generally the variables are windloads, snow loads if in the southern alps etc.
But the same basic plans apply Oz wide.

Btw, carports, pergolas and garages may use smaller sections than houses, but I usually use the house framing tables.

[funkychicken]

So I've got the frame settled, I need to find cheaper flooring and weatherboards.
Then what do I do? I suppose I'll have to go through council, can someone explain what needs to be done there?

[weisyboy]

so ya want cheep wheatherboards ay:;

and what type of flooring t&g or hust plain boards.

[dai sensei]

So I've got the frame settled....

Go and get it checked by a structural engineer. The wind loads in Qld are different to other states, especially on the escarpment of the mountain range at Towoomba. Check the building/construction requirements of you local council also, you may not think it is a big shed, but by council stardards it is.

[funkychicken]

I wouldn't trust weatherbeards from Carl..
Rough sawn 25mm thick flooring. I can dress and T&G it myself if I want

I'll have to get the whole thing checked by an engineer before I do anything.
Where I am in Meringandan I'm pretty much at the flat bottom of a valley, I'm not on top of hill or anything.
I've worked out the Wind Loading to be W36N or there abouts, but I'll check with the relevant people. The timber sizes I worked out are for W33N-W41N

[weisyboy]

wheatherboards are weatherboards. they still have to comply with standards.:2tsup:

[funkychicken]

Still don't trust them:D

[funkychicken]

I called Muckets today and they'll charge me:

$5.25pm for weatherboards
$2.75pm for the 100x25

Things I need to do:

Find cheap source of weatherboards and flooring
Get plans drawn up
Go to council
Learn how to grade timber properly
Do an owner builder course at Tafe
Buy the timber
Leave it for a while to let it season a bit
Build the thing!


Sounds simple enough

[weisyboy]

1. muckets quoted me 4.68 for 175m wheatherboards or 5.45 for special length.
2. you have to be licenced to grade timber.

[jackliveshere]

I called Muckets today and they'll charge me:

$5.25pm for weatherboards
$2.75pm for the 100x25

Things I need to do:

Find cheap source of weatherboards and flooring
Get plans drawn up
Go to council
Learn how to grade timber properly
Do an owner builder course at Tafe
Buy the timber
Leave it for a while to let it season a bit
Build the thing!


Sounds simple enough

Hey Funky,

now that you've done yourself a rough budget and know what it's going to cost and more importantly know that you can afford it, I'd be putting your steps in this order:

1. Find a decent professional draftsman to provide complete drawings for your workshop. They will be able to nominate required timber sizes & gradings and be able to check everything to standard design tables

2. Do you owner builder's course - if this is the path you are taking for certification, you should get onto this pretty quickly

3. Shop your drafted plans around and get accurate quantities and prices for ALL your materials, not just timber, everything. This way you know the final cost of the project - remember, there are always little costs here and there that crop up and need to be allowed for

4. Apply for your owner builder's BSA permit - http://www.bsa.qld.gov.au/HomeOwners/OwnerBuilding/Pages/ApplyingForAPermit.aspx

5. Submit your plans to council - they will not certify your plans until there is a registered builder or an owner builder permit attached to your submission. Also, I'd check in the Toowoomba area for private certifiers; they are often much quicker and less useless then councils.

6. Once certified, buy all your materials and get moving :) Unless of course as you mentioned the timber you bought needs seasoning. Personally, I'd be buying timber that is ready to go straight away, that way there's no stuffing around and you can just get straight into it

7. Move into your nice new workshop and pull out some wicked woodworking pieces :2tsup:

Cheers,

WILL

[echnidna]

Before you do any thing talk to the council , specially the town planners.

You might have trouble with a big shed on bearers and stumps.
They may take the view you may intend to use it for an undisclosed purpose such as a residential building or a commercial factory etc.
Putting heaps of house type windows in it may aggravate the situation.

You can't claim it will be a garage to house your car and ute and boat etc coz of the framed floor.

So talk to the planners first and find out what is acceptable to them.
Take a pencil sketch just to give them an idea of what you want.
You might even find the planning scheme online, if so see if you can understand it.

[jackliveshere]

Before you do any thing talk to the council , specially the town planners.


Yes I second that.

Funky just wondering, why don't you just slap a concrete slab down and get a steel shed kit erected?? Sounds much quicker and easier to me :)

Cheers,

WILL

[Vernonv]

Also how will you go with the owner builders license?
Is there a minimum age limit to getting one?
Can you get one even if you are not (I assume) the "owner" of the property?

I'm just playing devils advocate here, but might be worth checking out.

Also FC, is the property classed as rural? When I put up my "rural storage shed" (steel framed) I had to put it through council, but I didn't need to get an owner builders license or anything.

[silentC]

In NSW you have to be the property owner and over 18 years old.

[jackliveshere]

I dare say it'd be the same deal up here in Queensland...

My pick is for a steel shed kit that someone else puts up or if you really have to build it yourself, then find a local builder who'll "lend" you their builder's number.

[echnidna]

Why on earth would a licensed builder risk his livliehood by lending his license?

Do you expect Lawyers and Doctors to lend their licenses?

[weisyboy]

only person that would lend a licence is a really good mate ant tehn they would help u build it.:2tsup:

otehrwise fat chance.

[funkychicken]

Yes I second that.

Funky just wondering, why don't you just slap a concrete slab down and get a steel shed kit erected?? Sounds much quicker and easier to me :)

Cheers,

WILL

Why not have a timber shed? It'll look nicer and I can say that I made the darn thing, from log to shed.



Also FC, is the property classed as rural? When I put up my "rural storage shed" (steel framed) I had to put it through council, but I didn't need to get an owner builders license or anything.

I think it is. Thanks for the idea

Since I don't own the land then I can't get the permit, but Dad can and he wanted to anyway. I'll have a talk to the drafters, they'll probably be more helpful than the council

[jackliveshere]

Why on earth would a licensed builder risk his livliehood by lending his license?

Do you expect Lawyers and Doctors to lend their licenses?

Calm down mate....of course I don't expect lawyers and doctors to lend their licenses. Nevertheless, builders do lend their licenses to people they know....it does happen....and it will happen again. And as Weisyboy said, yes, they usually have to know the people pretty well. FunkyChicken is in a tough situation for what he wants to do & basically the only option is for a builder to help him out, hence me suggesting it cause it does happens.


Funky; obviously a timber shed is going to look nicer, I agree totally. But for the effort and time, it just seems that the steel shed and slab would be quicker and easier and get you into your new shed and woodworking much sooner.

Cheers,

WILL

[funkychicken]

Echnidna has a point, so I'd have to know a builder pretty well which I don't.
Two choices: Dad gets a owner builder licence or I bring the value of the shed below $11000.

So a question for WILL. How much would you charge to build a 12x6x3m shed, 600mm off the ground. Just the frame, floor and cladding, no fancy internal stuff. A rough guess will do

As for steel vs timber shed. The timber shed will be nicer to be in and will add more value to the land. And it's what I've decided on

[weisyboy]

a lot more than 11000:U

[jackliveshere]

Echnidna has a point, so I'd have to know a builder pretty well which I don't.
Two choices: Dad gets a owner builder licence or I bring the value of the shed below $11000.

So a question for WILL. How much would you charge to build a 12x6x3m shed, 600mm off the ground. Just the frame, floor and cladding, no fancy internal stuff. A rough guess will do


So in this roughie price, am I pricing supply & install of materials? Because that price will obviously be way more then anything you are costing as you don't really have any labour prices in your costing. Supply & install would be way over $11,000 to get subbies involved to erect it. Still want a price?

Cheers,

WILL

[funkychicken]

I'd supply the materials, the builder would just need to erect the thing.

[echnidna]

FC, this (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Steel-Shed-Frames-Garage-6-x-9-Shed-Prefab-Truss_W0QQitemZ120408130567QQihZ002QQcategoryZ1276QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) might be interesting

[weisyboy]

hmm i need a new timber drying shed....

[funkychicken]

FC, this (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Steel-Shed-Frames-Garage-6-x-9-Shed-Prefab-Truss_W0QQitemZ120408130567QQihZ002QQcategoryZ1276QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) might be interesting

Wow, that's cheap. I wonder how long it'd last...

Boss man can give me Wholesale price so that brings the price down to $7818:2tsup:

[echnidna]

Not only cheap but with prebuilt walls you should be able to erect the frame in a couple of days taking it easy

[funkychicken]

You'd still need a slab

[echnidna]

You can probably sit the walls on top of beaeres and joists if you want a timber floor.
That's how traditional weatherboard houses are built

[weisyboy]

yer it wouold just sit on a floor same as you shed was gunna

then put wheatherboards on teh outside.

[funkychicken]

Nah, it's too small

[echnidna]

shouldn't be a lot extra to lengthen it 3metres, ask for a quote

[mic-d]

This site (http://naturallybetter.com.au/) may interest you

Cheers
Michael

[InterTD6]

You only need a builders licence to build residential structures, if you call the building a office, or farm / machinery / packing shed then no licence is needed, I take it your on acres
regards inter

[funkychicken]

You only need a builders licence to build residential structures, if you call the building a office, or farm / machinery / packing shed then no licence is needed, I take it your on acres
regards inter

umm..acres? We've got nearly 1. We're not in the burbs (thank goodness) but we're not out in the sticks.
I've looked through the owner builder paperwork and I'm pretty sure you need a licence to build anything that's taller than 5ft.

[weisyboy]

im sorry to haev to tell u this but if u have less than 1 acre you are in the suberbs.

in qld you will need a builders licence to build a shed like that. as it will be deamed as liveable

[echnidna]

FC, think about milling your own timber

can you use your bosses lucas in your own time?

or even get an Alaskan CSM and DIY totally.
I know you have been spoilt by a Lucas but it all comes back to money.

[funkychicken]

The maximum discount I could get from milling the timber myself is my wage ($120 a cube). I'll only be cutting about half the timber on the lucas, the rest will be benched.

And I'm not in the burbs

[weisyboy]

hows that?

when i mill for someone the timber costs less than half of buying it. :?

you are so.

[funkychicken]

The logs, trucks, chainsaws, petrol, diesel, bobcat, lucas mill, etc. aren't mine. The only thing that is mine is the labour

Am not

[weisyboy]

so get some logs and ill come up and mill them:;

mates rates.

[Calm]

.....................mates rates.

Thats normal plus 20% isnt it?:D:2tsup:

I agree in the suburbs on a big block.

[weisyboy]

so i calculated

u have 4.8 cube of framing. so u would get it out of 8 cube of logs easily probable less. so it would cost about $1500 to get it cut.

u have 4.5 cube of weatherboards you could get this out of 9 cube of logs easily so would cost about $1700 to cut it.

total for your timber of about $3200 leaving u $6800 to buy logs:2tsup: before you broke even.

you would also have a heap of other sizes left over for making stuff.

just food for thaught.:2tsup:

[funkychicken]

But it's not just about me, I'd rather give the money to my boss because he's a good bloke and if his business dies then I'm out of a job

[weisyboy]

yer so how long will u haev to work for free to pay off the $6000:?

but if ya got 6 grand lying around :;

na its your choice mate just not the way id do it.

[echnidna]

me neither , but to each his own likes and dislikes

[funkychicken]

It's only $7818 for the timber from work. How did you work out your price?

[weisyboy]

well you have about

43.5m of 150mm x 150mm = 0.52 m3
72 m of 100 x 50 = 0.36 m3
36m of 125 x 75 = 0.35 m3
360m of 100 x 25 = 0.9 m3
144m of 100 x 38 = 0.52 m3
160m of 150 x 50 = 1.2 m3
144m of 75 x 38 = 0.4 m3
144m of 125 x 50 = 0.55 m3

total = 4.8 cubic meters of sawn timber
recovery of 50-65% = 8 cube of logs

8 cube x $190/ log cube = $1520 (youd get it for $180/ cube being a forum member)


684m of 175mm x 25mm x 6mm wheatherboards = 4.56 m3
recovery of 40 - 50% = 9 cube of logs

9 cube x $190/ long cube = $1710 (youd get it for $180/ cube being a forum member)

total $3240

and if ya cant get 20 cube of logs at the gate for a coupla grand then theres sompthing rong. good mill logs are worth a maximum of $150/cube and thats only if tehy are top notch.

[InterTD6]

Being from NSW & a licenced builder if I build anything decribed in the previous post then I dont have to provide a licence or be a builder. It depends on the zoning of the land as to whether you can build any of those structures, your zoning could possibly be rural residential, so a farm / machinery shed is what I would be calling it, not habitable therefore no licence needed
regards inter

[jackliveshere]

Being from NSW & a licenced builder if I build anything decribed in the previous post then I dont have to provide a licence or be a builder. It depends on the zoning of the land as to whether you can build any of those structures, your zoning could possibly be rural residential, so a farm / machinery shed is what I would be calling it, not habitable therefore no licence needed
regards inter

Definitely need a license for Funky's type of structure up here Inter :2tsup:

Cheers,

WILL

[funkychicken]

Definitely need a license for Funky's type of structure up here Inter :2tsup:

Cheers,

WILL

Dang:~

[InterTD6]

Definitely need a license for Funky's type of structure up here Inter :2tsup:

Cheers,

WILL

Why?
regards inter

[weisyboy]

cos its the law.

it used to be that if it had 3 or more walls it was considerd a habitable structure and you had to get buildign aproval and get a builder to build it.

[jackliveshere]

Why?
regards inter

That's right, it's the law. I don't make the laws so it doesn't matter why, but it is the way it is. If you are up for some light reading, check out the 638 pages of the Integrated Planning Act 97 here http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/I/IntegPlanA97.pdf

Cheers,

WILL

[funkychicken]

Well today I talked to the consulting engineers who told me to talk to the architects who told me to make an appointment:rolleyes:

[Calm]

Just wait till you get to the bit where you go to the council/shire

Rang our local shire council on Tuesday to see a person in Planning that i had been told to "chat" to by the local polititian

chain of events from here
Ring shire about 9.10 am - can i see *** ***** - told she was in meeting but would be out at 11 am - can i make an appointment - dont need one - so i turn up at 10.50 - sorry you can only talk to the "duty" officer not the person you were told to talk too - Ok ( i need to get this through council) so i see her and leave 1 hour later from what i thought was a meaningful meeting - As i'm leaving she says you should make an appointment to see *** ****** - I didnt say anything but coincidently that was the person i wanted to see in the first place - How do i make an appoinment - she's out so ring later and ask for *** ***** - so home i go ring up later and she's still not in - can i make an appoinment - you dont need one - yes i do - then you need to talk to her - so can she ring me back as i am only home from work this week - Thursday morning 9.10 i get a call from her and an appoinment is made for 12 noon Friday -

In the meantime i ring a consultant on planning - yes i can help you - yes i am a councillor on that shiire - yes it is a conflict of interest but if it goes to council meeting i just exit chambers when the subjest comes up - i am not going through this process to not get the permit so would i be better off if you were in the room voting - yes possibly - should i get another consultant to do this - you might be better too but you should see *** ****** at the council first -

can hardly wait for the rest of this episode - it could be the resurecction of MONTY PYTHON.

Good luck Andrew but you could learn more from this episode than all the time you spent at school.

Cheers

[InterTD6]

Just read the QLD BSA site for builders licence requirements & a licence is required for all classes of buildings, there could be hope yet as there is talk of a national licence scheme which could level out the extreme licencing of QLD, to none required in TAS
regards inter

[jackliveshere]

Well today I talked to the consulting engineers who told me to talk to the architects who told me to make an appointment:rolleyes:

Don't want to scare you off Funky, but you have no idea what you are in for throughout this whole process. Sorting out all the pre-liminary junk is the worst of it, that's for sure. There are many stupid rules and technicalities that need to be followed just to get approval. Hence why builders (and shed builders) exist as they take the hassle out the whole process and get it done. Good luck bloke!

Cheers,

WILL

[funkychicken]

The council's a pain, I think everyone knew that already:wink:
By the time I get it past council I'll probably have saved up the $10000 or so to pay for the thing:roll:

[funkychicken]

I'm booked in with the Building Designers on the 14th, I'll officially be starting the shed:D:D:D:D Well...sort of:wink:

[funkychicken]

Well I talked to the Building Designers today. They did up a few sketches and will email me a draft in a few weeks.

$990 for the plans

[jow104]

Andrew, this vacant workshop is currently unused (Batemans Bay area) no planning problems were needed when built and if any buracrat starts now I am sure he could be seen off.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/devonwoody/2nd%20album/3rd%20album/35w-3.jpg

Best of luck with your venture.

[Calm]

nothin a couple of old sheets of iron wouldnt fix.

Cheers

[funkychicken]

Andrew, this vacant workshop is currently unused (Batemans Bay area) no planning problems were needed when built and if any buracrat starts now I am sure he could be seen off.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/devonwoody/2nd%20album/3rd%20album/35w-3.jpg

Best of luck with your venture.

What a Beauty:2tsup: I'll take it

[RETIRED]

In real estate speak: Handymans delight. This delightful building has plenty of natural light with 360 degree views .

[The Bleeder]

Perfectly ventilated to cure any dust problem.

[jow104]

For further details apply jow104 for viewing.:):;

[jow104]

or use google link for viewing area drag mouse on screen.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?t=h&hl=en-GB&ie=UTF8&layer=c&cbll=-35.64612,150.240367&panoid=MKHXLjcEw9CNO37cG8YW9w&cbp=12,33.76,,0,-28.83&ll=-35.645884,150.240985&spn=0,359.998466&z=19

[funkychicken]

In real estate speak: Handymans delight. This delightful building has plenty of natural light with 360 degree views .

In a beautiful bushland setting:wink:

[funkychicken]

$990 later I have the plans! There's going to be alot more timber involved than I thought...

[jow104]

$990 later I have the plans! There's going to be alot more timber involved than I thought...

Do you want those bits back you gave me?:)

[artme]

$990 later I have the plans! There's going to be alot more timber involved than I thought...

Mate, one of the immutable rules of beauracracy is the that there will be a lot more of everything than you thought----time, money, materials, forms, headaches.:rolleyes::rolleyes::D