Sheeps

[Ed Reiss]

being that I'm an impartial party to it....where are the best sheepherders? Australia:aussie5: or Ireland?:ireland3:

[RETIRED]

Dogs.:D

[witch1]

Nz damhik

[elmoticus]

2nd vote for New Zealand :)

[DavidG]

Kelpie

[Cliff Rogers]

We don't call them sheepherders, we call them graziers.

Grazier's dogs are fine for smaller paddocks, yard work & hard to get to places like creeks & gulleys but to cover large acreages, you need a motorbike.

[46150]

..........careful,he might be pulling the wool over our eyes.......

[Howdya do that]

We don't call them sheepherders, we call them graziers.

Grazier's dogs are fine for smaller paddocks, yard work & hard to get to places like creeks & gulleys but to cover large acreages, you need a motorbike.

And a dog:2tsup:

[artme]

I told my father when I was a little tacker that I wanted to be a shearer.

His reply, "you don't want to do that son It's a baaasted of a job.":D:D:D

[chrisb691]

This thread should be Baaaaaaaa'd.

[Ashore]

What is a good sheepherd , someone why cares about their sheep who in fact love looking after them and has real and personal feeling for each and every sheep in his flock , and gets close to each sheep and lets them know who cares for them , but whose the boss.
I rekon the Kiwi's take it out pants down every time :2tsup:

[Cliff Rogers]

And a dog:2tsup:
You haven't heard me bark. :D

... I rekon the Kiwi's take it out pants down every time ...
Poor Muzz. :rolleyes:

[Ed Reiss]

Nz damhik


2nd vote for New Zealand :)

...oh yea, I forgot that you guys are floating around the South Pacific also:doh::q

...my baaaaad, no offense guys:B:U

[Ed Reiss]

......hmmmmm, haven't heard anything from across the Atlantic on this issue...guess their all too busy with St Paddy's day:no:

Thanks for the correct wording on that Cliff....haven't heard much from you on the forums lately, hope your doin' OK.

[wheelinround]

I reckon these Welshman for 2009 world title

YouTube - Extreme Sheep LED Art

[weisyboy]

We don't call them sheepherders, we call them graziers.

Grazier's dogs are fine for smaller paddocks, yard work & hard to get to places like creeks & gulleys but to cover large acreages, you need a motorbike.

a good horse is what ya need.:2tsup: mutch bettter than a bike.

[Cliff Rogers]

Last century.... too slow, too much farting around getting going in the morning & packing up at night.
Bike wins hands down.

[Lignin]

Yep, until it runs out of juice, stakes a tyre or throws a chain!!:((:((
Horses and dogs for sheep, helicopter and contract musterers on horses for cattle!!!:roll::roll:

[Ed Reiss]

...you have got to kidding !!!!!!

That's fantastic

those dogs really know their stuff

[weisyboy]

running costs on bikes are to high.

there fine if all youv got is perfictly open padocks without any big rocks or branches lying around. but whos gunna stick rake 50000 acres.

a horse can go anyware a sheep can:2tsup:

[Cliff Rogers]

Depends on the rider I guess, we haven't used horses for sheep at home since 1960something, even in thick scrub & pulled gidgee paddocks full of rocky out crops.

[Howdya do that]

There's a fair of drivel here:~

Where a bike wont go a horse is not agile or quick enough.

Unlike the old days where 10 station hands were available for mustering it is mostly now a one man job with a good dog or dogs depend on the numbers. The only time I ever see mustering with horses now is school holidays and the dogs are still doing the work. Most people would do it in their air conditioned utes if wasn't easier to open gates from a motorbike.

Carl, where the hell did you get the idea that it is cheaper to run a horse than a motorbike:?

[weisyboy]

from experiance.

[Howdya do that]

Where?

[Vernonv]

Got to agree - bikes have it hands down. Like Howdya says mostly it's the dogs doing the work, the bike rider is just overseeing/controlling things.

However one area where horses have an advantage is their height - working in long grass and/or working closely with cattle (especially nasty ones).

Horses certainly cost more to purchase/run.

[weisyboy]

my family has run cattle up here for over 100 years. we jsut sold off teh last of the place and destocked 3 years ago.

it is imposable to ride a bike in amy of the country round here. verry steep and timberd. a horse can go anyware a cow or sheep can. agreed that dogs do most of the work but you still need to be able to chase the mob around.

try cutting out a mikky and throwing him from a bike. you just cant do it. ya have to yard the mob and run them threw the crush. i know witch one is quicker and easyer.

it costs nothing to keep a horse and most stations bread there own so there is next to no cost in obtaining them.

[Vernonv]

it costs nothing to keep a horse ... If it just sits in a paddock doing nothing.
... and most stations bread there own so there is next to no cost in obtaining them.Yes but there is still the cost to break and train a horse (many, many hours) and the additional maintenance required daily to keep a horse in top working condition.

[weisyboy]

a working horse that is worked most days needs little attention. a bit of grain and some grass is all thats needed.

as for breaking that is not hard to do. just a little time. most horses can be broken in a few days and you can only spend a couple of hours a day on each horse.

[Cliff Rogers]

The title of the thread says 'Sheeps' not cow, cattle, mikky.

Most of Oz is as flat as a pancake, particularly the sheep country, 20 kms from one horizon to the next with not a tree, stick, or creek in sight.
On a bike you can cover that distance in 10 minutes, on a horse it will take you most of the day just to get there & then you have to turn around & come home again.

If you give the choice to the blokes that have to do the sheep work for a living, I'll bet you most will pick a bike over a horse 'cos they will get more done in a day for sure.

Granted that there are places that a horse will go that a bike won't but now days, nobody is silly enough to bother trying to run sheep in a paddock that rough.

Next, horses are boring... when you are following a mob along a fence line on a bike you can stop & do a burn out on an antnest or pop monos or do a few doughnuts or a bit of 'speedway' with one boot in the dirt & the backwheel hanging out chucking up dust & dirt making lots of noise.

Horses are 'girls toys' bikes are 'boys toys'. :2tsup:

I grew up in the bush about 50 miles west of Longreach & my parents are still there.
The property they live on has been in my Dad's family since 1880 something.

How are we doing with the pissing contest? :D

[prozac]

my family has run cattle up here for over 100 years. we jsut sold off teh last of the place and destocked 3 years ago.

it is imposable to ride a bike in amy of the country round here. verry steep and timberd. a horse can go anyware a cow or sheep can. agreed that dogs do most of the work but you still need to be able to chase the mob around.

try cutting out a mikky and throwing him from a bike. you just cant do it. ya have to yard the mob and run them threw the crush. i know witch one is quicker and easyer.

it costs nothing to keep a horse and most stations bread there own so there is next to no cost in obtaining them.

And you can eat 'em too.

[weisyboy]

Granted that there are places that a horse will go that a bike won't but now days, nobody is silly enough to bother trying to run sheep in a paddock that rough.

Next, horses are boring... when you are following a mob along a fence line on a bike you can stop & do a burn out on an antnest or pop monos or do a few doughnuts or a bit of 'speedway' with one boot in the dirt & the backwheel hanging out chucking up dust & dirt making lots of noise.

Horses are 'girls toys' bikes are 'boys toys'. :2tsup:


that depends on who you talk to. i cant stand the things. all tehy do out here is roar around on teh fire breaks causing great washouts and starting bush fires.

[Howdya do that]

I think you have been reading too many Ion Idress novels Carl:D

No employer in their right mind would allow anyone to bull dog a Mickey Bulls in the paddock any more. Call Stanbroke, Kidmans or AA co and ask them. While your there ask them if they still breed horses and can break one in a few days.

[Cliff Rogers]

that depends on who you talk to. i cant stand the things. all tehy do out here is roar around on teh fire breaks causing great washouts and starting bush fires.
Context please.... sure there are hoons on bikes but that doesn't mean the bikes are at fault, have a think about what possible use a race horse is on a sheep station?
We weren't talking about the other 'evils' of the mode of transport, we were weighing the merits of each for the job.

Stick to the point, the subject started as sheep herding.

[weisyboy]

i dont read books.

im sure the big station agents dont let you do anyhting fun. they even started making teh bike riders wear helmets:((.

but i assure you it is still done and not that dangerous if done properly.

it is more than possable to break a horse in a few days. first day you catch it and short rain it. let it out in the padock for a few hours then short rain it teh other side. and let it go then take the rains off over night. catch it and start getting it used to things on its back, sabble cloth, whip, lay on there. getit used to ther things by the end of day 2 you can normaly jump on and see how it is. by day 3 it is good enough ro ride around far from perfect but it is rideable.

normaly this would be streachred out over a week but it can be done in a few days.

[Vernonv]

it is more than possable to break a horse in a few days. first day you catch it and short rain it. let it out in the padock for a few hours then short rain it teh other side. and let it go then take the rains off over night. catch it and start getting it used to things on its back, sabble cloth, whip, lay on there. getit used to ther things by the end of day 2 you can normaly jump on and see how it is. by day 3 it is good enough ro ride around far from perfect but it is rideable. So it would be ready for mustering at that stage?

Compare that to a bike - Ring bike shop and order bike. Go and pick up bike or if you got a good bike shop they may deliver. Put in fuel ... ready for mustering.

At the end of a days work, you need to unsaddle the horse, brush, check feet, water etc, etc.

Compare that to a bike - Turn off bike, flip out stand, walk away.

The next morning you may need to catch the horse, put on saddle and bridle, maybe check feet again, etc.

Compare that to a bike - Check fuel and oil, start and your away.

[Cliff Rogers]

And you get the new bike out of the box, put fuel in it & go, perfect from the start, good for 50 to 60 kilometres an hour all day.

I'm already 3 days ahead of you & in 3 days time you still have a finnicky horse that is good for about 5 or 6 kilometres an hour.

The motorbike has it all over the horse for endurance in the paddock.

Here is a training plan for an endurance horse, (not exactly a stock horse but..)
When you are finished, if you have a good horse to start with you will get about 80Kms on the road a day out of it but it will be buggered after about 5 days.
A bike will do 80Kms an hour on the road all day for several years.


TRAINING
Long slow distance work is the basis of preparing a novice horse for a training ride. You should plan on riding the horse three to five times per week and allow twelve weeks to get an inexperienced horse fit for its first 40 kilometre training ride. Always remember that rest is critical to the conditioning of an endurance horse as it allows the horse to recover from the stress of training. The training sessions should each be about 1 hour in length with a longer session of two hours or more included once per week.
For Weeks 1 and 2 the horse should be "legged up" at the walk only over flat terrain. Although this is relatively boring for the rider it is crucial to build strength in the legs and condition the horse for its future training. During this period it is a good idea to teach your horse to walk-out as fast as possible so that the conditioning effect is maximised and it will also help you to cover more ground later at rides. For the average horse this will mean covering about 5 to 6 kilometres in a one hour training session and 1 0 to 12 kilometres in a two hour training session.
For Weeks 3 and 4 you can begin to introduce some trotting (up to 10 minutes per one hour session) interspersed with the walking. When you commence trotting it should initially be for only short distances but gradually increased. During this period you should work on trotting the horse on opposite leads so that it remains even gaited and builds its muscular strength equally on both sides. It is also recommended that you work the horse at different speeds in the trot to develop the horses ability to go along at various speeds and try to cultivate the horse with a calm but confident manner.
For Weeks 5 and 6 increase the trotting to 20 minutes per one-hour session and introduce some hill work. Endurance rides will generally involve some substantial hill work and if you do not have access to hills on which to train it would be wise to float your horse to an area where this is possible. Initially you should walk the horse up the hills and as his fitness improves begin to trot up some of the easier hills. Downhill work this early on should be done at the walk because trotting downhill is hard on a horses legs and you are still looking to strengthen and condition.
From now on each fortnight you should increase the amount of trotting gradually (say an increase of 10 minutes per one hour session) and try to incorporate hill work where possible. At this point YOU could also begin to introduce some easy cantering in the same way that you did with the trotting. By the end of week 8 you should be approximately walking half the time and trotting half the time. For the average horse this will mean covering 9 to 10 kilometres per hour. At this point it would be good to do a 20 km intro. ride if there was one available.
Two weeks before the training ride the horse should be given about a 30 km trial run which would take about two and a half to three hours to complete. This will allow you to check how the horse copes without the excitement of the ride. If all has gone to plan and you have had no problems or received no setbacks as a result of lameness etc. then your horse will be ready to attempt his first training ride.

[Lignin]

Aaaaahhhh, technology.Ain't it grand.:2tsup::2tsup:
We are all members of a Woodwork Forum that, in part, extols the value and delight in using traditional hand tools, but, when it comes to mustering, the debate, which, IMHO, seems to be "hotting up",the traditional is dismissed as ancient, and largely uselessly outdated.
I started my working life as a jackeroo, got a degree in Vet Science, and spent the rest of my working life working in rural areas.
With out a doubt, the easiest stock to handle were those that were gently handled before being yarded.An idiot on a horse can stir stock up as efficiently as an idiot on a motor bike, and a good stockman will master either conveyance.
As a traditionalist, I prefer stock handled on horseback, but, with the demise of the rural labour force, horses are becoming less and less practical, more's the pity.:(


BTW Cliff, I've solved the crop circle conundrum around Longreach---not aliens as all, but Cliffie doing "circle work" on his Yamaha!! :U

[Vernonv]

Some very good points Lignin, but it's not really comparing apple with apples.

It's true that as hobbyists woodworkers quite a few choose to use "traditional" tools/methods, but in the commercial world (of woodworking) I would suggest that most operations would choose "technology" over "tradition". They need to to remain competitive.

The same can be said for any modern commercial grazing enterprise - they will also predominantly use "technology", as they need to be able to compete in the commercial world, just as the commercial woodworking operation will.

Now if you are farming as a "hobby" and don't need to compete commercially and therefore you can afford to maintain "traditional" methods, as the cost to you is largely irrelevant (the cost could be time and/or money).

[Lignin]

Fair enough, Vern, but I think you'll agree that the finest pieces of "Woodwork" are still built by craftsmen using predominantly hand tools, and hand finished.
In my defence, I did acknowledge that either technology OR tradition, in the hands of an "idiot" results in heartache.As an idiot woodworker, I know this to my cost and frustration.:((:((

[Vernonv]

... but I think you'll agree that the finest pieces of "Woodwork" are still built by craftsmen using predominantly hand tools, and hand finished. :2tsup:Yes, very true ... but I'm not convinced that horse mustered lamb/beef tastes better :roll::;:U ... however given the choice (and no commercial pressures) I would probably prefer to muster on horseback.

[Howdya do that]

i dont read books.

it is more than possable to break a horse in a few days. first day you catch it and short rain it. let it out in the padock for a few hours then short rain it teh other side. and let it go then take the rains off over night. catch it and start getting it used to things on its back, sabble cloth, whip, lay on there. getit used to ther things by the end of day 2 you can normaly jump on and see how it is. by day 3 it is good enough ro ride around far from perfect but it is rideable.

normaly this would be streachred out over a week but it can be done in a few days.

Geez Carl, I'm dissapointed:;

I thought you would get the aborgines to crash tackle him, get a saddle and bridle on, let him loose and the first ringer to stay in the saddle would get a carton of XXXX

[Lignin]

Vern, The best lamb/mutton and beef is not yarded at all.No lactic acid build up to make the meat tough.:2tsup::2tsup:
You've got to be a good shot,though!!!:o:o

[Ashore]

Vern, The best lamb/mutton and beef is not yarded at all.No lactic acid build up to make the meat tough.:2tsup::2tsup:
You've got to be a good shot,though!!!:o:o
Ever tried Kobe beef , it never sees a paddock but lives its whole life in a stall :D

[Cliff Rogers]

....
BTW Cliff, I've solved the crop circle conundrum around Longreach---not aliens as all, but Cliffie doing "circle work" on his Yamaha!! :U
Use the force Luke, use the force.
XT250 with a hoon pipe on it so it is loud. :D

[Ed Reiss]

...well, guess the answer to the original question is going to go unanswered, but as an outsider, I've gotten a pretty good education on the logistics of tending sheep and cattle by the use of traditional and not so traditional methods. Horses, bikes, dogs, graziers seem to be the most important pieces to the puzzle depending on which part of the country your in.
Personally I would opt for a helicopter to get the job done.:AO:

[RETIRED]

...well, guess the answer to the original question is going to go unanswered, but as an outsider, I've gotten a pretty good education on the logistics of tending sheep and cattle by the use of traditional and not so traditional methods. Horses, bikes, dogs, graziers seem to be the most important pieces to the puzzle depending on which part of the country your in.
Personally I would opt for a helicopter to get the job done.:AO:They do on the bigger stations. Just another bit for the equation.:D

[Howdya do that]

They also use small planes Ed but the dogs cant hear you very well:D

[Cliff Rogers]

Helicopters are good for spotting sheep but a bit of a waste of time for mustering... sheep are just too bloody stupid. :cool:

Helicopters work well for cattle. :2tsup:

My brother had a gyrocopter for a while, he would go up with a handheld 2 way & call the blokes on the ground to let them know where the mobs were.

He was a bit like me with my tractor, he rolled it on takeoff, stacked it into a turkey bush & parked it on the whirly bit. :D

[Lignin]

Ed,
If you are asking which race of people, Aussie, or Paddy, make the best shepherds, you are asking us to compare two completely different management regimes, and ,in most cases, two destinctly different sheep types.
Australian sheep, mostly the Merino, are grown for their wool, generally have only one lamb at a time, and ,apart from routine shearing, crutching and drenching, are pretty much left to their own devices.
Irish (or British) bred sheep are either dual purpose breeds, i.e bred for meat and fibre, or are meat sheep.They frequently have twins or triplets, and one breed, the Finnish Landrace, almost has a litter-up to five lambs (and, as ewes have only two teats, there often is "No tit for Tatt)
Because Northern hemisphere flocks are small c.f. Antipodean ones, and the areas of farms are minute, it is easy for a shepherd to see his flock on an almost daily basis, whereas an Aussie, on either a motor-bike or a horse, frequently only sees his sheep a few times a year.
I worked as a vet in UK, and was frequently callede upon to do caesarians, or pull lambs, but was never asked to do the same at home.Most shepherds in UK house their lambing ewes and watch over them like precious daughters.
Pommie mum sheep are much more prone to metabolic disorders because of their larger broods, but with the increasing popularity of exotic breeds on boutique farm, I predict that some of the newer vet graduates will have to bone up on sheep diseases a bit more.
To put things a bit more in perspective for you, when I began jackerooing in the 1960s, I workrd on a prop[erty with 25 THOUSAND breeding ewes, and we had a good year if we marked 70% lambs.When i worked in UK, a large flock of sheep in the south of England, was 2 HUNDRED ewes.A BAD season was if they marled LESS THAN 150% lambs.A figure closer to 200% was desirable.
So, in answer to your original question, it's horses (Yes, or bloody bikes) for courses, but I suggest that it is "Each to his own".

For our foreign friends, a jackeroo (or jillaroo, depending on gender) was a trainee station, sorry, farm, manager.The breed is now largely extinct.

Hope that helps.

[Ed Reiss]

They also use small planes Ed but the dogs cant hear you very well:D

...get 'em walkie-talkies:cool::U

Thanks, Lignin....I learned something today:U