Australian of the year

[corbs]

Professor Mick Dodson (Australian of the year) has called for the date of Australia Day to be changed (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24961907-421,00.html). This cr@p really really makes me mad:((. Can they change their minds and take it off him now?

[Sturdee]

Actually I tend to agree, commemmorating the invasion of this continent by the British in establishing a penal settlement of New South Wales is not the right date for commemmorating the establishment of our Commonwealth.

Unfortunately the right date of the 1st of January is already a holiday.:D



Peter.

[echnidna]

Professor Mick Dodson is perfectly entitled to express his opinion.

Sturdee hit the nail right on the head though.

I conclude that none of the civil passengers on the first fleet actually wanted to come here, they were compelled by gun & whip. Yet their descendants don't have issue with the date of Australia Day.

Perhaps the aboriginal cause needs to consider this fact too.

Maybe Australia day should be April 1st

[Woodwould]

Australia's humanitarianism towards the country's indigenous peoples is a national shame and the cause of much derision abroad. I too think it's appalling that 'Australia Day' venerates the 1788 incursion of the First Fleet and all that followed.

Why not shift 'Australia Day' to commemorate an event everyone can be proud of… perhaps the anniversary of the day the Prime Minister said "Sorry".

[Jim Carroll]

Why dont we have a day for the indigenous peoplen we can all have another day of.

Maybe call it Indigenous sorry day.

[Gra]

I too think it's appalling that 'Australia Day' venerates the 1788 incursion of the First Fleet and all that followed. .

I can tell you, my relatives weren't to happy to be here on that date either, but they got over it. It was 200 years ago, not letting go of these things are what causes thing like the middle east and Yugoslavia

[Ron Dunn]

woodwould, if it hadn't been colonised by Australia, it would have been France, or perhaps Holland or Spain. They would have treated Aboriginal Australians far worse than anything that ever occurred under the British, imagined or real.

Aboriginal Australians should be eternally grateful that it was Britain, and not some other colonising power, which decided to assume possession of this continent.

[Sturdee]

Maybe Australia day should be April 1st


No but May the 7th, being the date the first Australian parliament was first called together. The day the nation came together through its first elected representatives meeting in Melbourne would be appropriate.

And my views has nothing to do with the Aboriginals but if it helps them as well, so much the better.



Peter.

[Big Shed]

woodwould, if it hadn't been colonised by Australia, it would have been France, or perhaps Holland or Spain. They would have treated Aboriginal Australians far worse than anything that ever occurred under the British, imagined or real.

Aboriginal Australians should be eternally grateful that it was Britain, and not some other colonising power, which decided to assume possession of this continent.

Ron I think Australia was colonised by Britain surely?

[Sturdee]

woodwould, if it hadn't been colonised by Australia, it would have been ......... Holland. They would have treated Aboriginal Australians far worse than anything that ever occurred under the British, imagined or real.


No, we would have organized them and put them to work to earn us money and no such thing as slacking of or doing their own thing or going walkabout.:D


Peter.

[Jack E]

Australia's humanitarianism towards the country's indigenous peoples is a national shame and the cause of much derision abroad. I too think it's appalling that 'Australia Day' venerates the 1788 incursion of the First Fleet and all that followed.

Why not shift 'Australia Day' to commemorate an event everyone can be proud of… perhaps the anniversary of the day the Prime Minister said "Sorry".
Surely you are joking :rolleyes:

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

What a pointless argument! :rolleyes:

What difference does it really make what day we celebrate it on? I'm sure that somewhere, someone will find some reason the day isn't suitable. Every day of the year can be associated with something bad, "socially distasteful" or just plain conflicting. (as in Jan 1st, Dec 24th)

Besides, Australia Day is celebrating the landing of the First Fleet. If you don't like that, don't go around pretending that it's "Pride in Australia Day" or put some other twist on it, just don't celebrate it at all! Lobby for another date to be set aside as "Autralian Pride Day" or whatever, but don't go corrupting another part of what is our heritage, distasteful as you may find it.

I can't see anything more senseless than people trying to rewrite history. It happened and we can't change that, although we can remember and try to learn from our mistakes. How can we do that if wannabe goody two-shoe politicos go about rewriting history so we don't feel so guilty about it?


Sheesh! :doh:

Shall I shut up now?

[Cruzi]

Reconciliation is not about trying to punish Australians for something they had nothing to do with 200 years ago. Someone should remind the PC police of this.


Australia Day is about Australia and what it has become, its not a political football for someone to score points with.

[Ron Dunn]

Ron I think Australia was colonised by Britain surely?

Hahahaha ... yeah ... and I typed that message in Seattle, in a state of severe travel tiredness. Perhaps the typical American ignorance of history and geography is catching :)

[dazzler]

Professor Mick Dodson (Australian of the year) has called for the date of Australia Day to be changed (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24961907-421,00.html). This cr@p really really makes me mad:((. Can they change their minds and take it off him now?

Hi Corbs

I thought the same until the paper arrived. Apparently he had said this in the lead up to the decision so he didnt spring it on them.

I have no time for the "sorry" industry. But I can see his point. It would hardly rate as something to celebrate.

Then again, why have Australia Day anyway, our head of state is some chick whose only credentials are that she was the result of two people who no one elected having 'relations' and then leading us.

Time for us to grow up, gets some nads and move out of home. :)

[BernieP]

G'Day All

Would like to humbly suggest the word Indigenous be used correctly, as I was born in Australia of good white convict stock I consider I am Indigenous to Australia. So if we are talking about aboriginal people lets call them that. And I didn't get the wooden spoon in the last contest to not use it.:wink:

Cheers
Bernie

[dazzler]

G'Day All

Would like to humbly suggest the word Indigenous be used correctly, as I was born in Australia of good white convict stock I consider I am Indigenous to Australia. So if we are talking about aboriginal people lets call them that. And I didn't get the wooden spoon in the last contest to not use it.:wink:

Cheers
Bernie

The term indigenous peoples can be used to describe any ethnic group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_group) of people who inhabit a geographic region with which they have the earliest known historical connection.

And that would probably be Mungo Man I would imagine :wink:

[Woodwould]

I can tell you, my relatives weren't to happy to be here on that date either, but they got over it. It was 200 years ago, not letting go of these things are what causes thing like the middle east and Yugoslavia

I come from a country where sectarian bloodshed has been going on since the early seventeenth century and still was when I left. Many dear and close friends were murdered there. It's a bit hard to forget such conflict and terrors when the culture around you lives and breathes it. Try getting over someone murdering one of your children in the name of religion/politics.

[Woodwould]

woodwould, if it hadn't been colonised by Australia, it would have been France, or perhaps Holland or Spain. They would have treated Aboriginal Australians far worse than anything that ever occurred under the British...
I don't disagree, but do we need to rub their noses in it every year? Imagined or real? :o



Aboriginal Australians should be eternally grateful that it was Britain, and not some other colonising power, which decided to assume possession of this continent.
Oh I'm sure they feel positively indebted to them.

[Woodwould]

...I was born in Australia of good white convict stock...

Isn't that a contradiction in terms? :q

[Woodwould]

Surely you are joking :rolleyes:

Which bit did you find amusing?

[Jack E]

Australia's humanitarianism towards the country's indigenous peoples is a national shame and the cause of much derision abroad. I too think it's appalling that 'Australia Day' venerates the 1788 incursion of the First Fleet and all that followed.

Why not shift 'Australia Day' to commemorate an event everyone can be proud of… perhaps the anniversary of the day the Prime Minister said "Sorry".


Which bit did you find amusing?
All of it really but especially the bit where you said we should commemorate Dudd saying sorry (not on my behalf).

The whole point of people being upset about suggesting Australia day be moved is that it is grand standing to gain attention.

That is what Dudds apology was too and you want to commemorate that :oo:

How can a nation be proud of having a spineless leader who apologises on our behalf just to gain a small % of votes.

I am proud of the fact that Australia has grown to become a great country, that all began with settlement so I am proud of the first fleet arriving.

If you are not then perhaps you should book a flight somewhere else.

[Cruzi]

History cannot be changed however the future can.

If you choose to feel seperated or isolated by an event, there is nothing that can be done, however if you choose to become involved and participate, then you can gain some ownership of the event, rather than trying to spoil it for the majority.

[Woodwould]

The whole point of people being upset about suggesting Australia day be moved is that it is grand standing to gain attention.

Now I can't believe you're being serious!


That is what Dudds apology was too and you want to commemorate that :oo:
It has nothing to do with what I want, but what's good for the nation (both domestically and abroad) and in particular, the indigenous peoples.


How can a nation be proud of having a spineless leader who apologises on our behalf just to gain a small % of votes.
It's infamous crass Aussie sentiment like this that sets the country back decades and must be so insulting to Aboriginals.


I am proud of the fact that Australia has grown to become a great country, that all began with settlement so I am proud of the first fleet arriving.

If you are not then perhaps you should book a flight somewhere else.

The issue has nothing to do with me being proud (or otherwise) of Australia or whether I should sling my hook; it's about concilliation and moving forwards and to that end, the current Prime Minister, think what you will of him, has taken a tremendous humanitarian step by acknowledging the wrongs dealt to the country's indigenous inhabitants.

[Waldo]

Professor Mick Dodson (Australian of the year) has called for the date of Australia Day to be changed (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24961907-421,00.html). This cr@p really really makes me mad:((. Can they change their minds and take it off him now?

I totally agree Corbs, 110%. Some people don't like Mondays, lets change it to another name or another day of the week while we're at it.

:angfire:

[Woodwould]

Some people don't like Mondays, lets change it to another name or another day of the week while we're at it.

:angfire:

Sounds like an excellent idea. How about moving it into Sunday's slot, calling it 'Aborigine Day', making it a public holiday and doing away with Sunday altogether, you know; just to give the change some significance. :q

[Lignin]

Bloody Hell, Woodie,you are a stirrer.No wonder the Black and Tans were after you!!:-:-
Me??Oirish QUAKER stock, so strictly neutral!:;:;

[Woodwould]

Bloody Hell, Woodie,you are a stirrer.No wonder the Black and Tans were after you!!:-:-
Me??Oirish QUAKER stock, so strictly neutral!:;:;

Black and Tans! You've got your religions and politics mixed up a bit. :U

BTW, I lived fairly close to the Quaker Meeting House at the Grange (http://www.quakers-in-ireland.ie/meetings/grange.htm) (founded in 1657 - three years after the formation of the Religious Society of Friends).

Incidently, I'm not a Quaker, but I am 'neutral' as you put it. :U

[damian]

Reconciliation is not about trying to punish Australians for something they had nothing to do with 200 years ago. Someone should remind the PC police of this.


Australia Day is about Australia and what it has become, its not a political football for someone to score points with.

Well said that person.

Then again the PC police and their like never let reality get in the way of having a rant..

[Howdya do that]

Reconciliation is not about trying to punish Australians for something they had nothing to do with 200 years ago. Someone should remind the PC police of this.


Australia Day is about Australia and what it has become, its not a political football for someone to score points with.
:whs:

Just imagine iIf all these smart people, black, white & brindle spent as much time working on the future of our great country as they have worrying about the past.:doh:

[BernieP]

Isn't that a contradiction in terms? :q
G'Day Woodwould

I don't consider it a contradiction in terms at all, however I know you don't understand what you think I wrote, but I'm not sure you realize that what you just read is what I meant.

Cheers
Bernie

[Woodwould]

G'Day Woodwould

I don't consider it a contradiction in terms at all, however I know you don't understand what you think I wrote, but I'm not sure you realize that what you just read is what I meant.

Cheers
Bernie


You may not consider it a contradiction in terms, but it is nonetheless. :q

Does history relate what your ancestors were convicted of? They may not have been very bad people (stealing a loaf of bread to keep your family alive isn't really bad in my books).

[MICKYG]

If we could shrink the worlds poulation to a village of precisely 100 people,with all the existing human ratios remaining the same,it would look something like this.


There would be 57 Asians 21 Europeans 14 from the Western hemisphere,
both north and south 8 Africans. 52 would be female and 48 would be male.
70 would be non white and 30 would be white.70 would be non Christian and 30 would be Christian. 89 would be hetrosexual and 11 would be homosexual
6 people would pocess59% of the entire world's wealth and all 6 would be from the USA. 80 Would be living in substandard housing. 70 would be unable to read.


50 would suffer from malnutition. 1 would be near death and 1 would be near birth.
1(yes only 1) would have a college education 1 would own a computer.


When one considers our world from such a compressed perspective the
need for acceptance,understanding and education becomes glaringly
apparent. The following is also something to ponder.....


if you woke one up this morning with more health than illness......you
are more blessed than 1 million who will not survive the week. If you have never experienced the danger of battle, the loneliness of imprisonment,the agony of torture,or the pangs of starvation...you are ahead of 500 million people in the world.


if you can attend a Church meeting without fear of harassment,arrest,torture or death........you are more blessed than three billion people in the world.


If you have food in the refrigerator,clothes on your back,a roof over your head and a place to sleep.......you are richer than 75% of this world.


If you have money in the bank, in your wallet and spare change in a dish some where........you are amoung the top 8% of the worlds wealthy.


If your parents are still alive and still married you are very rare even
in the USA and Canada.


If you can read this message,you just received a double blessing in that
someone was thinking of you and furthermore you are more blessed than
over two billion people in the world that cannot read at all.
Someone once said :


"What goes around comes around"
Work like you don't need the money.
Love like you have never been hurt.
Dance like nobody's watching.
Sing like nobody's listening.
Live like it's Heaven on earth.
One can never be sure of the hard numbers one thing is for sure we all
very lucky to be where we are and who we are!

[damian]

So what's your point ?

[BernieP]

You may not consider it a contradiction in terms, but it is nonetheless. :q

Does history relate what your ancestors were convicted of? They may not have been very bad people (stealing a loaf of bread to keep your family alive isn't really bad in my books).
G'Day WW

No he was an awful man pinched a watch, but she was worse she was Irish, oh and she also pinched a pair of shoes in Dublin. Well documented:2tsup: OK so it wasn't good white stock, but certainly good enough for me and mine.:D

Cheers
Bernie

[dazzler]

Try getting over someone murdering one of your children in the name of religion/politics.

Seriously, is there someone alive today that can remember a massacre. The last one I was aware of 1928 when a WW1 veteran shot 32 aborigines after they had attacked a station owner and dingo trapper. Horrible thing to happen but hardly something anyone here should feel ashamed of, nor something an entire race can hold against todays people.

The truth is that no one alive today in our country should have any feelings of shame or guilt over how we all got here or what has happened in the past. Lets look at my family tree - my great, great, great, grandfather arrived here in the 1840's as a refugee. Its interesting to note that in 1789 his father was rounded up off his farm and had to decide whether to be guilletioned or go into exile. From all accounts he was an okay kind of bloke, but hell, even if he was out shooting innocent people I think its a long bow to draw that I should think anything of it other than as history. If my father did it perhaps I would feel a some shame.

What is irrational is to place our belief systems of today on the decisions made 221 years ago. Lets take a snapshot of the period;

Slavery in America. 1619 to 1860. Enlightened Canada didnt abolish it till 1830.
Witches were still being killed in England as late as 1894
Women would wait another 150 years to vote.
In England you could be "indentured" at the age of 10 until you were 21 to a master against your will.
Two loaves of bread could get you exiled for life.
225 female convicts were packed into a brig and sent to the colony in a floating brothel as breeding stock for the colony.

So who were these people that whose behalf we should be ashamed. 1418 people who none of us knew, (700 of which had no choice as prisoners, the rest ordered by the govt) were shipped to a place and dumped. Only 15 of these had an education of any value.

By the values of the times, they did about the same as everyone else on the planet. They looked after themselves, behaved in a bigoted and racist way, killed people who they thought wronged them or they percieved as valueless.

Wouldnt it have been lovely if they had the values we have today. Sadly they didnt. Thats nothing we need to be ashamed about.

cheers

[MICKYG]

You may correct me if i am wrong but its not very long ago that the illustrious Mr Dodson was bagging white Australians and the Australian Goverment of the day in America which really does make one wonder how these awards are distributed and what the criteria is.

Regards mike:roll:

[corbs]

I know it was played down as insignificant but there was the expression of regret from Howard too. I am not sorry for anything I have done to the Aboriginal people, however I am regretful of how our history has played out and things that have happened in the past.

Too many ????? stirrers in the pot to let it all get sorted out in an orderly manner. Lets just see who can yell the loudest:no:

[Woodwould]

G'Day WW

No he was an awful man pinched a watch, but she was worse she was Irish, oh and she also pinched a pair of shoes in Dublin. Well documented:2tsup: OK so it wasn't good white stock, but certainly good enough for me and mine.:D

Cheers
Bernie

Better than one of my step-inlaws!

[Woodwould]

Seriously, is there someone alive today that can remember a massacre. The last one I was aware of 1928 when a WW1 veteran shot 32 aborigines after they had attacked a station owner and dingo trapper. Horrible thing to happen but hardly something anyone here should feel ashamed of, nor something an entire race can hold against todays people.

My comment that you've quoted, was in answer to Gra's remark about Middle Eastern and Yugoslavian atrocities of relatively recent times which would still be vividly remembered by many of those country's peoples. I personally witnessed many acts of terrorism and lost many friends and acquaintances as a result.

However, to respond to your post, past Aboriginal massacres obviously aren't the issue in question (in so much as there are no living Aborigines who could remember the events), but it's the Australian Government's (the Australian voting public's) on-going maltreatment/mishandling of indigenous peoples which is so appalling. There are Aborigines of virtually all ages alive today who could recall incidences of inhumanity levied against them by the whites – they don't need to rely on elders or lore to be reminded.

[dazzler]

However, to respond to your post, past Aboriginal massacres obviously aren't the issue in question (in so much as there are no living Aborigines who could remember the events), but it's the Australian Government's (the Australian voting public's) on-going maltreatment/mishandling of indigenous peoples which is so appalling. There are Aborigines of virtually all ages alive today who could recall incidences of inhumanity levied against them by the whitefella – they don't need to rely on elders or lore to be reminded.

Name away, I would be interested in these inhumanities, remembering we have apologised for the so called stolen generations...........

[Perkz]

Professor Mick Dodson (Australian of the year) has called for the date of Australia Day to be changed (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24961907-421,00.html). This cr@p really really makes me mad:((. Can they change their minds and take it off him now?


I must admit that I tend to agree. The award is something that should be accepted with humility, dignity and grace and I have not seen that from the humble Professor so far. Leave the activist stuff for other forums.

As a Kiwi who has lived in Australia since 75 ( naturalised) I have watched this whole "sorry" debate with detached interest and must admit to not being a supporter for the big political apology.

I take a very simple view that the people who were invloved were doing their level best to find a way to improve the lives of the people involved and that their intent was genuine and honest. Surely know one believes that there was a deliberate plot to "steal" children. I think the truth has been lost in media and political play making and sensationalism.....

If the indigeneous people were looking after their children properly in the first place then there would not have been a need to do anything...????

I am rather surprised that no-one has called for the Indigenous people to aplogise to the rest of Australia for being such a drain on the social structure both in financial and racist terms for so many years. The reverse racism in this country ( and New Zealand) is just a joke..Sadly as I have travelled around outback Australia I see many instances of abuse of the support the community gives the indigeneous people.

What impresses and pleases me is seeing so many of the younger indigeneous people doing so well in society by using their skills and knowledge and growing within the community like everybody else and in the process NOT relying on race and history to make themselves heard in the community. Well done to them I say.....maybe the last 200 years of joint community growth with so many people from so many lands making up this wonderfull community is starting to pay dividends !!???

Cheers

[WillBrook]

The whole sorry thing is out of whack. Our head of state is and has been the royal family. That's where the buck stops. If any one should apoligise it's Old Lizzie, not the representative of a generation that had nothing to do with it.



Oh and personally, I reckon Glen McGrath should have got it.

[RETIRED]

Keep it on topic and be nice to each other.

[WillBrook]

Keep it on topic and be nice to each other.

Here here

[dazzler]

I love you willbrook.

[echnidna]

Sounds Like dazzler & willbrook are now engaged :D

[Gingermick]

If the indigeneous people were looking after their children properly in the first place then there would not have been a need to do anything...????

The issue, I believe, was to breed the "half castes" into society, .. That way they expected aboriginal blood to be bred out over time. (eugenics)

[weisyboy]

i dotn see how someone can apologise for sompthing someone he dosent have any connection with did a coula hundred years ago.

aborigionals dont want to be treated fairly they want a free ride. if you go out to any of the big aborigional towns out west qld. they get given houses and cars and what do they do they drive the car till it gets boged or runs outa juice and walk off and leave it. they pull to floors outa the houses and burn them as firewood. they get givven cattle stations and let them go to nothing eat all teh breaders that are close by the homestead and easy to catch.

i spent a wile helping a mate of my fathers who dose chainsaw licencing we were there to teach tehm to use a chainsaw to harvest tehre own timber so tehy could build houses etc. we arived on tuesday to start teh free corse wednesday we sat around till lunch time and no one turned up we went and saw the bloke there to see what was going on and he said we had to go and pick them all up they wernt walking we told him to let tehm know if they wanted to come they could do so themselves. anyway it was to late to start then so we put it off till thursday. again we waited for tehm to turn up and nothing we went and saw the bloke and he said oh its pention day today you wont get anyone sober enought to do anything untill the week end.

the governmet will do what they want cos they need there vote to get in power and untill that changes nothign will.

[Lignin]

I have worked with Aboriginals in NSW, Qld and NT, and by no means all of them are drunken wastrels, but unfortunately, the ones with high visibility are the "Town Blacks" who are generally unemployed and unemployable because of their addiction to grog.
We Whities generally do not understand or show any interest in Aboriginal culture.If an elder is a "-artist" who belts his missus and kids, nobody of a lesser status can do ANYTHING to this bloke, so he gets away with it until a white copper intervenes, and gets abused by the "tribe".
There are a lot of very good, diligent, hard working and honest Aboriginals, but they do not get the publicity, and thet frequently have no status in their community and have to move away to protect their women and children.Until this changes, and Prof Dodson,and all the other so called "Coconuts" lead the way here, there is bugger all chance of the disparate tribes, black, white or brindle getting on with each other.More's the pity.:((

[echnidna]

Very well put Lignin

[Lignin]

Thanks:B:B:2tsup:

[Pheonix]

Some of the finest men I ever met they were, give you the shirt of their back,always helpful,its those white b...ers I cant stand:p