SMSF Superanuation audit return etc

[glenn k]

I have a very simple self managed super fund set it up for $110 now I need to do the crap for the ATO.
My accountant said he couldn't do it, they have a partner company that does it but they wanted $1500.:oo:
I bought 8 stocks on the ASX sold part of one and bought it back (share purchase plan) and got 7 dividends. Not very complicated compared to my other returns.

:? Well question is can anyone recomend anyone to do this for me? :?

[kiwigeo]

Glenn,

Youre self managed super fund is a trust and youre a trustee. Unfortunately you have a bunch of obligations as a trustee and filing a tax return AND and audit is one of them...regardless of how many stock trades youve made this tax year. $1500 is about what I pay for my accountant to the return and audit.

Note that you need to get your return and audit to the ATO by a fixed date....its Feb 28th for funds that have been running for more than a year. If this is the first year your fund has been operational then the date is different...check ATO website for the dates.

Check out Tax Payers Australia for an excellent guide to running an SMSF...it has all the rules and regulations simply explained and it alerts you to important dates.

Most certified practising accountants should be able to do your return and audit for you.

Cheers Martin




I have a very simple self managed super fund set it up for $110 now I need to do the crap for the ATO.
My accountant said he couldn't do it, they have a partner company that does it but they wanted $1500.:oo:
I bought 8 stocks on the ASX sold part of one and bought it back (share purchase plan) and got 7 dividends. Not very complicated compared to my other returns.

:? Well question is can anyone recomend anyone to do this for me? :?

[Wood Borer]

I can't help you but I strongly agree it is ridiculous.

In the age of the idiot, we are all expected to learn accounting skills and somehow know all the bull$hit tax rules. Do these clowns have to learn our skills? - No.

Would they be capable of learning anything beyond boring bland rules and form filling? - No.

Do they lose our money and then have the cheek to charge us? - Yes.

Has their influence on the world stuffed the economy and will hurt heaps of people? - Yes.

Whilst people will be put out of work due to these morons, will they then demand huge fees to fix their mistakes? - Afraid so.

Perhaps it's time we threw out these dumb rules and rule makers and think about knocking a bit of sense into how we run our lives, governments and retirement. Fair go.

[kiwigeo]

Agree with alot of your comments Woodborer but we're talking about running a Self Managed Super Fund (SMSF) ie the fund is managed by Glenn not a retail managed fund. Glenn decides how his money is invested not his accountant. The only part accountant's pay in the running of his fund is doing the menial tax return and audit required by the ATO. Glenn could do his own tax return but it's not as easy as it seems (capital gains etc). The audit must be done by someone other than the fund trustee(s) and ideally the accountant doing the tax return shouldnt also do the audit (having different people working for same accountancy firm is acceptable).

SMSF's are good investment vehicles for some people but not for others. If youre not willing to spend a few hours each month keeping the paperwork up to date (eg all share transactions and other invetsment decisions must be minuted) then youll quickly find yourself getting bogged down and wish youd never gone the SMSF route....its alot like running your own business. The choice is going with an industry or retail fund where you pay someone else to do the menial paperwork and let them control where the money is invested or you take on those responsibilties yourself and make your own investment decisions.

Paying $1500 to an accounant for tax return audit services may seem excessive but for a fund with a balance of $300,000 the costs represent 0.5% of assets. Compare that with the trailing fees being charged by most of the managed funds and youll quickly see that youre getting much better value for money with the SMSF option.

For the record my SMSF running costs per annum are around $2000..this includes $1500 tax return/audit fees and other items such as membership of Taxpayers asscociation, ATO assesment levy ($150pa), bank fees etc. if youre relying on a financial advisor for advice on your investments then that figure can jump quite a bit. I do my own research and make my own investment decisions so keep my costs down.

Cheers Martin

[damian]

At the risk of hijacking the thread, your complaint is not dissimilar to another. I know something about computers. When people find this out they seem to have no qualms asking me to spend hours of my time sorting out their computer problems. They get quite offended when I suggest that if they are going to use a computer they either should be prepared to learn to fix it themselves or be willing to pay someone a fair price to do it for them.

I am a motor mechanic by trade and engineer by profession. I don't fix cars for free, I don't consult for free. I don't fix computers for free.

[BobR]

My fees are similar to Martins, so you are not being had.

[Sturdee]

As I used to do that kind of work I thought the fees were cheap, the firm I worked for would have charged double as a minimum.

Peter.

[glenn k]

thanks all. I did find a mob in Caulfield that said they would do it for $900 +GST which is a lot cheaper so I might go with them. My problem with the price is I trade shares a lot maybe 200 trades / year and my accountant charges me about $1500 and this is for a company and personal tax returns. I just thought the SMSF would be very little work compared to this.

[johnc]

Glenn,

The problem for the accountant isn't just the trades, its all the regulatory stuff of the audit. This includes independantly confirming the shares exist and so forth. To do it according to ATO guidelines the person preparing the accounts shouldn't be the one doing the audit and so forth. We also charge around the $1500 on average, and it probably comes to $400 max for the accounts and the balance is the bull and hoops we have to run through to make sure all funds are compliant for when the ATO comes knocking. It also covers all the rubbish we are meant to go through to remain compliant ourselves, which we don't absorb and pass on to the client.

$900 is good, give the accountant a hug and see if you can fix the same price for next year. FWIW most of us think the regulators have lost the plot and gone overboard to keep the managed funds happy. With management fees up to 2.8% in the master funds (wrap acounts) you are still possibly doing better in the SMSF and our experience has been that our SMSF's generally produce better returns year in, year out than the managed funds.

Relax, its only money.:;

[shredder31]

I found a place that do smsf audits (http://isap.com.au/about/) from $299. I actually paid $499, as I am in pension phase, but the turn around was three days and they were very helpful.

[q9]

It seems you may be sorted now, but we can do SMSF audits. Fees vary on complexity, of course, and the quality of the associated bookwork - and trust me, we've seen some pretty poor examples of financial statements from some accountants.

The reason your accountant can't do it, is because the audit needs to be INDEPENDANT - your accountant is not independant, and there exists the possiblity they could conceal fraud against the beneficiary (you!), thus the regulators insist on an independant auditor.

If anyone is in need, please feel free to contact me and I'll put you on to our Audit manager.

[jnalad1857]

Hello,
You are paying too much for no reason. I was paying around the same price, Accountants will give you any excuss under the Sun to charge you that amount. Have a look at this site. www. unip.com.au

[glenn k]

Thanks will look into that. Do you have to buy there software

[_fly_]

A friend has all his in cash at the bank, so its 12 bank statements and interest and it cost him 2200 as well. You have to do it so Acct's have you buy the short and curly's. and they just gouge you, and they are not into woodwork. Need the ACCC to look into price fixing in that group as well.

[kiwigeo]

A friend has all his in cash at the bank, so its 12 bank statements and interest and it cost him 2200 as well. You have to do it so Acct's have you buy the short and curly's. and they just gouge you, and they are not into woodwork. Need the ACCC to look into price fixing in that group as well.

Your friend is running a self managed super fund and he's got all his investments 100% tied up in cash invested in a bank savings account??? Something not quite right there. Perhaps your friend needs to re-evaluate why hes running an SMSF rather than using an industry cash based fund.

[_fly_]

Your friend is running a self managed super fund and he's got all his investments 100% tied up in cash invested in a bank savings account??? Something not quite right there. Perhaps your friend needs to re-evaluate why hes running an SMSF rather than using an industry cash based fund.
Not savings, term deposits. The fees are cheaper if you do it youself rather than pay a parasite money to do nothing.
If your getting close to retiring its not that silly an idea if you've accumulated enough.
His term deposits are doing better than my industry balanced fund.

[kiwigeo]

Not savings, term deposits. The fees are cheaper if you do it youself rather than pay a parasite money to do nothing.
If your getting close to retiring its not that silly an idea if you've accumulated enough.
His term deposits are doing better than my industry balanced fund.

Unfortunately you cant do an audit and prepare annual financials yourself. How much has your friend got in his SMSF? If your friend has at least $200,000 in his SMSF then a $2200 pa accountants fee represents a small amount compared to what many managed funds are charging (as youve noted). Note also within an SMSF the interest on the term deposits is getting taxed at a lower rate.