General pest control chemical

[abitfishy]

Hi all,

Our place is pretty much overrun by redbacks and a variety of spiders and creepy crawlies. Rather than pay a pest controller a fortune, I'd like to spray around the house and under the house myself with something. I know there are supermarket products which seem to be overpriced pyretherime (spelling) based products, but was wondering what I can buy and use (whether it be a concentrate or whatever).

Now, although the house has had no problems, we have had some minor termite activity around the place in garden furniture etc. We had the expensive termite baits etc installed several years ago with no real activity in them, just a big money spinner for them I think, but if I am going to spray around the house anyway, I wouldn't mind using something that I can soak the ground around the house and outbuildings that could give some protection against termites that might make contact with it. I know termites are a job for the experts, but I'm not going to spend the dough to get the expensive treatments for them when we've been there, done that and haven't really got anything out of it.

200 g/L IMIDACLOPRID (Premise etc) seems to be used commonly, and was wondering if a house treatment with that is also effective against general creepy crawlies, as most products aimed at the home user (the labels anyway) seem to be more listing fruit aphids etc.

Alternatively any other suggestions?

Thanks.

[Vernonv]

I'm not sure about the product you have mentioned, but I regularly (every 6 months) spray around the house for spiders and around the perimeter to deter termites with a product called Webzone (http://www.webcot.com.au/uploads/labels/DIY%20Pest%20Control%20-%20Webzone.pdf).

It certainly controls the spiders and we have never had an issue with termites in the house (yet they are happy to attack fence posts only metres away - until I spray them of coarse :roll:).

With the rate I use it at, I will get about 5 years worth (2 sprays a year) from a bottle and it cost around the $80 to $100 mark (if I remember correctly).

[abitfishy]

Thanks mate.

I'll look into that stuff.

[Howdya do that]

What Vernon said.
Bifenthrin the active in Webzone is what is used by most proffesional pest controllers.

[damian]

Petrochemicals kill insects on contact, immediately. They don't go bezerk for 5 mins like pyrethrim, they just drop dead. Useful for wasps. Petrol of course has benzene in it these days so something like hexane is better, but any light petrochemical in a pump bottle will work. Be aware your pumps will die pretty quickly. Maybe a pump up (pressureized) type would do better.

As for termites termidore and like products are great. They are extremely low toxicity nicotine based in oil. They are slow acting so they wipe out the nest and last about 10 years. Not cheap.

The baits are hopeless. Until the nicotine came into australia the stuff they had been using since copper arsenate etc was banned was only a deterrant, which is why it never worked any good. IMO termimesh is hopeless aswell as is the granule stuff. I got the nicotine about 4 years back and haven't had a hit since. I used to get hit all the time.

2c

[Vernonv]

Petrochemicals kill insects on contact, immediately. They don't go bezerk for 5 mins like pyrethrim, they just drop dead. Useful for wasps. Petrol of course has benzene in it these days so something like hexane is better, but any light petrochemical in a pump bottle will work. Be aware your pumps will die pretty quickly. Maybe a pump up (pressureized) type would do better.
Not sure I would go around spraying my house with petrol. :o



As for termites termidore and like products are great. They are extremely low toxicity nicotine based in oil. They are slow acting so they wipe out the nest and last about 10 years. Not cheap. That looks like a pretty good product. It contains Fipronil (used in things like Frontline for dogs and cats - so it must be pretty safe), however I couldn't find a reference to it being derived from nicotine.
Can it be purchased over the counter, or do you need to be a licensed pest controller?

[abitfishy]

From what I've found there are 'generic' products with the same ingredients as the well known ones like Premise, etc. My local Mitre10 actually had something some months ago in a 1L bottle that was marked 'for professional use only', although I can't remember what product it was at the time. A bit of shopping around should find something, or at least somewhere willing to sell it to the public.

[damian]

Not sure I would go around spraying my house with petrol. :o

Don't smoke while your doing it, but the fumes dissipate pretty quickly. As i said petrol isn't ideal because of the additives, but hexane etc are fine.


That looks like a pretty good product. It contains Fipronil (used in things like Frontline for dogs and cats - so it must be pretty safe), however I couldn't find a reference to it being derived from nicotine.
Can it be purchased over the counter, or do you need to be a licensed pest controller?

Dunno. I was told it used nicotine by the guy who's been doing my pest stuff for the last 12 years. Good bloke very knowledgeable. Only works for established clients these days cos he's so in demand.

[abitfishy]

Can't see how nicotine is effective - I've been on huge doses for years and I'm still here.

Cough Choke Cough. :doh:

[damian]

Pure nicotine is a very effective poison. I think it's 2 grams in the blood will kill you. Cigarettes actually contain relatively little and because you burn and inhale rather than inject the dose is small.

Many medicines are actually poisons. Poisons in small doses can stimulate the bodies repair systems and also can be addictive. Alcohol is another one...

[mic-d]

Just a point of clarification, fipronil is in no way chemically related to nicotine.

Cheers
Michael

[Coptotermes]

Just a point of clarification, fipronil is in no way chemically related to nicotine.

Cheers
Michael

Agreed
Premise is what you are thinking of (or the new somewhat similar product Prothor) and as far as I know and the label makes know mention of spiders. Though a similar professional bait product using imidacloprid is used for cockroaches.

Australian link to Premise label for those interested.
http://www.bayeres.com.au/resources/products/label/Premise%20200%20SC%20-%20BES%20Approved%200906.pdf

Australian link to Termidor label for those interested.
http://www.asiapacific.basf.com/apw/AP/AsiaPacific/en_GB/function/conversions:/publish/AsiaPacific/upload/ANZ_Documents/Termidor/TERMIDOR_54624_0808.pdf


The baits are hopeless. Until the nicotine came into australia the stuff they had been using since copper arsenate etc was banned was only a deterrant, which is why it never worked any good. IMO termimesh is hopeless aswell as is the granule stuff. I got the nicotine about 4 years back and haven't had a hit since. I used to get hit all the time.


Can't disagree with you more. Baiting products in the right professional hands are superb at treating especially difficult active termite jobs with a new Australian developed product called Termidor Dust also getting excellent results.

Termiticides containing fipronil and imidacloprid are non-repellant so in some situations have some chance of knocking out a colony even if there are small gaps in a treated chemical zone around a structure. (larger disturbances to treated soil won't help though).

Products containing repellant termiticides ie. Bifenthrin and others can be very effective so long as the treated zone around the structure is complete and not disturbed.

Physical barriers that you mentioned and for that matter chemical treatments are at the mercy of wether they were installed properly in the first place and/or compromised by other tradespeople or the homeowner.

To the original poster products containing bifenthrin would currently be the most commonly used for spiders (good knockdown and life) by professional pest managers though even with these the quality of different products can vary and with regards to soaking the ground check the label and the quantities of mix you will have to use may surprise, you will be mixing possibly hundreds of litres if the label and local regulations even allow you to do it.

This post is general in nature and can not be relied on as all situations are different and it is strongly recommended as per the Australian standard that at a minumum an annual termite inspection be done and more frequently in high risk areas. Also for good measure as I understand it an APVMA registered label on a chemical product is a legal document and must be read and understood and only used as per the label. And read and act on the MSDS, your risk assessment and record everything you do just in case anything goes wrong.:o

[mic-d]

Agreed
Premise is what you are thinking of (or the new somewhat similar product Prothor) and as far as I know and the label makes know mention of spiders. Though a similar professional bait product using imidacloprid is used for cockroaches.

:teach:
Just another point of clarification, imidacloprid (Premise) is also NOT chemically related to nicotine. It has quite a different chemical structure. Where the confusion comes from is that the design process which gave birth to it targeted the nicotinic-acetylcholine receptor. Nicotine was used as the parent compound in the design process, nicotine is an agonist at the nicotinic-acetylcholine receptor, ie, it makes it work, Imidacloprid is an antagonist, ie it stops it working. Imidacloprid has low toxicity in mammals (fortunately) and doesn't really recognise the human nicotinic-acetylcholine receptor(s). Imagine all the different nicotinic-acetylcholine receptors in different species are like the locks in a big apartment building. Nicotine is the master key that works them all, Imidacloprid will fit the locks of many insects apartments, but gets stuck and will not open the door and stops the door working. Imidcloprid won't fit into the mamalian apartment locks, so when the real key comes along it still works fine...
A very simple analogy, but it serves a purpose.

:hmm:
:D
Cheers
Michael

[Coptotermes]

:teach:
Just another point of clarification, imidacloprid (Premise) is also NOT chemically related to nicotine. It has quite a different chemical structure. Where the confusion comes from is that the design process which gave birth to it targeted the nicotinic-acetylcholine receptor. Nicotine was used as the parent compound in the design process, nicotine is an agonist at the nicotinic-acetylcholine receptor, ie, it makes it work, Imidacloprid is an antagonist, ie it stops it working. Imidacloprid has low toxicity in mammals (fortunately) and doesn't really recognise the human nicotinic-acetylcholine receptor(s). Imagine all the different nicotinic-acetylcholine receptors in different species are like the locks in a big apartment building. Nicotine is the master key that works them all, Imidacloprid will fit the locks of many insects apartments, but gets stuck and will not open the door and stops the door working. Imidcloprid won't fit into the mamalian apartment locks, so when the real key comes along it still works fine...
A very simple analogy, but it serves a purpose.

:hmm:
:D
Cheers
Michael


:2tsup: I'm no expert in chemical structures but would assume that if as many people seem to believe Premise or Prothor actually did contain nicotine , the nicotine may have a repellant effect??? and would probably work against the desired contamination of the termites (but not immediate kill) and the transfer of the toxicant (imidacloprid) back to the nest.

It's well known that smokers, especially using termite bait products have to wear gloves because termites are extremely sensitive to many chemicals and may avoid eating the bait otherwise.

[mic-d]

:2tsup: I'm no expert in chemical structures but would assume that if as many people seem to believe Premise or Prothor actually did contain nicotine , the nicotine may have a repellant effect??? and would probably work against the desired contamination of the termites (but not immediate kill) and the transfer of the toxicant (imidacloprid) back to the nest.

It's well known that smokers, especially using termite bait products have to wear gloves because termites are extremely sensitive to many chemicals and may avoid eating the bait otherwise.

What you're saying makes sense to me.:) and nicotine is not listed on the MSDS anyhoo.

CHeers
Michael