end grain cutting board

[driftit]

hey guys just another probably simple finishing question. Ive almost finished making a jarrah end grain cutting board for a christmas present and was wondering what to finish it with, if anything????
cheers Toby.....

[Ashore]

I use organoil ( hard burnishing )run a 1/3 sheet sander with a cloth with the oil on under it the friction and heat gives a better penertration , 2- 3 coats :2tsup:

[DJ’s Timber]

Paraffin Oil, available from the chemist or the medicinal aisle at the supermarket

[Chipman]

Ther is a seller of these boards at Yarra Glen market...they use grape seed oil

Cheers,

Chipman

[aak]

Ther is a seller of these boards at Yarra Glen market...they use grape seed oil

Cheers,

Chipman

With good reason.:2tsup: It is natural. In fact you could use any natural oil you can eat. Would you want to eat the food that was cut on a board that was finished with an oil that is not suitable for human consumption?

Regards
Andy

[RufflyRustic]

I second what DJ Said - paraffin oil.

cheers
Wendy

[Cruzi]

Parrafin oil or raw wood are your only choices.

Parrafin oil is non-organic, used as a base for a lot of medicines and creams as well as being used (in larger amounts) for medicinal purposes in humans and animals.

Natural or organic oils can go rancid and become very poisionous.

A lot of people do use organic oils, a lot of people change lanes without indicating, a lot of people smoke.

I sell a lot of boards, and public liability demanded a non-organic oil.

[dai sensei]

parrafin oil or raw wood are your only choices.

Parrafin oil is non-organic, used as a base for a lot of medicines and creams as well as being used (in larger amounts) for medicinal purposes in humans and animals.

Natural or organic oils can go rancid and become very poisionous.


+1

[Pops]

Hi Toby,

I believe this exact question has been asked several times, the last not so long ago.

The information and answers then as now are the same.

Most will advocate Parrafin for the reasons stated and avoid organics.

The general consensus is, as far as I can recall, as Cruzi said; Parrafin or raw. Is the safest option, no risk. :2tsup:

Run a search on Parrifin or cutting boards if you need more information.

We will of course be expecting some photos of the finished product. :D

Cheers
Pops

[Interwood]

Hi All,

Given Parrifin is the go, what is the best method of application?

I had been using Organoil hard burnishing oil and getting a lustrous finish. Do you apply parrifin in the same way (hard burnishing) or just mop on and wipe off after a time? What method would give the nicest finish?

Interwood

[Burnsy]

What method would give the nicest finish?


Sticking with organoil HBO as you said you have used previously:p

It is food safe and gives a finish that is far better than Paraffin in my opinion so why change what you have been doing, is there something about it you did not like? There is no reason not to use organoil other than personal preference so if you already have some, go with it, especially for presents as the finish is fantastic when done properly. Also, the organoil woodwipe can be used to freshen up the boards after time and gives your kitchen a beautiful clean smell as it is orange oil based.

[aak]

Parrafin oil or raw wood are your only choices.

Parrafin oil is non-organic, used as a base for a lot of medicines and creams as well as being used (in larger amounts) for medicinal purposes in humans and animals.

Natural or organic oils can go rancid and become very poisionous.

A lot of people do use organic oils, a lot of people change lanes without indicating, a lot of people smoke.

I sell a lot of boards, and public liability demanded a non-organic oil.

And a lot of people do not clean their chopping boards either as they should . Hence they go rancid. And in that case no matter what type of oil you use on the board, you will have problems. Have we reached the point when we sue someone as soon as we do something really stupid? Are we no longer take any responsibility for our actions? I know in life generally this tendency is growing. However, this is an open forum to share thoughts, ideas and advice that is given with good intentions. At least I thought.

I personally did not think that we needed to think about public liability issues here in case some people are not hygenic and clean appropriately. Equally, if we do need to think about public liability, I will be cautious making comments on using power tools and sharp tools as well in case someone may not follow proper procedures and has an accident.

Maybe I am at the wrong place/forum.:?:no::? I thought, this is a forum where adults are communicating and some common sense should be applied when it comes to using the advice and/or comments posted in the threads!


To that extent: As far as I am concerned, anyone can use any oils on their boards. It is none of my business at the end of the day.

Regards
Andy

[RufflyRustic]

AAk, I'm wondering if you missed the point here. Cruzi sells cutting boards and to be able to do so, he complies with Public Liability requirements. Sounds sensible to me as well as being a useful piece of information should I ever consider selling cutting boards myself.

Drifit didn't mention anything about what will happen with the chopping board, but the replies have given Drifit plenty of information - just what he was looking for. The best bit though, is that this information is now shared and available on the forum for all to read and gain ideas from.

Cheers
Wendy


PS Drifit - I second what Pops said - any photos?:D

[aak]

AAk, I'm wondering if you missed the point here. Cruzi sells cutting boards and to be able to do so, he complies with Public Liability requirements. Sounds sensible to me as well as being a useful piece of information should I ever consider selling cutting boards myself.

Drifit didn't mention anything about what will happen with the chopping board, but the replies have given Drifit plenty of information - just what he was looking for. The best bit though, is that this information is now shared and available on the forum for all to read and gain ideas from.

Cheers
Wendy


PS Drifit - I second what Pops said - any photos?:D
Hi Wendy,

I did not think I mised the point. To my memory the issue was "what to finish the cutting board with" at least this is how the thread started, rather than "what to finish the cutting board if I want to sell it as a business".

Of course selling them as a busniss one would need to protect itself regarding public liability issues. No matter what kind of business one is running, public liability is one form of protection that should be high on the priority list.

While talking about that, leaving the wood raw/unfinished (the recommendation beside using parafin oil) is not a public liability concern. However, an unfinished cutting borad will most definitely be a health hazard whether people would / could sue you for it.

I am not going to try to proove it here why a board needs to be protected. Anyone interested can search for it on the net. As a point of info, The traditional finishing oil in Europe used to be grape seed oil. That of course does not mean that one can't use other oils being them natural and/or suitable for human consumption, man made, poisonous or not, etc. (You already know where I stand.)

Referring to natural oils can go rancid in boards, people overtaking without indicating, lot of people smoking suggests that I did not miss the point.

As I said, people can finish their boards with any kind of oil they want or in fact leave the wood raw if they prefer. It is really neither here nor there for me. And let me add, I was not looking for confrontation or debate when I agreed with the post that suggested someone sells their boards finished with grape seed oil. I just simply happen to agree with it.

Regards
Andy

[Chipman]

I was the one who mentioned grape seed oil... just reporting a fact about a commercial supplier who uses grape seed oil...nothing to do with me in any way!!!!!! They do all the craft markets around Melbourne and have literally about 100 to choose from.....

We actually made endgrain chopping boards in my yr 9 woodwork class (some were pine, others blackwood)....we used organoil hard burnishing oil. Says on the can that it is suitable for food utensils and bowls etc.

I know the parents think their kids work is great and most families are not even using them???? Why? They think they are too pretty to use!

Cheers,

Chipman

[aak]

I was the one who mentioned grape seed oil... just reporting a fact about a commercial supplier who uses grape seed oil...nothing to do with me in any way!!!!!! They do all the craft markets around Melbourne and have literally about 100 to choose from.....

We actually made endgrain chopping boards in my yr 9 woodwork class (some were pine, others blackwood)....we used organoil hard burnishing oil. Says on the can that it is suitable for food utensils and bowls etc.

I know the parents think their kids work is great and most families are not even using them???? Why? They think they are too pretty to use!

Cheers,

Chipman

Hi Chipman,

There was nothing wrong with your post. Just as there is nothing wrong with the posts that mentioned the use of Organoil.

Let me quote from an Organiol advertisement "As with Organoils's entire range of Natural Oil Timber Finishes the following Classic Wood Craft Finishes are formulated solely from highly refined plant (wood, nut, seed and citrus) oils and natural ingredients. NO Petroleum Hydrocarbons or synthetic chemicals/resins at all!"

I would doubt that they would be facing law suits due to their products being used on cutting borads. I also doubt that any of the cutting boards would go rancid because of their products were used to finish them.

Regards
Andy

[RufflyRustic]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your reply. It clarified that the finish of a cutting board is not in question here.

What I am after though, is trying to understand :? why you think the Public Liability comment was not needed and how that supports your point of the forum no longer being "... an open forum to share thoughts, ideas and advice that is given with good intentions. ..."

The way I read the Public Liability comment was that it is simply a statement of what one person does and why. I don't believe it was meant to be a "You Should or else" comment, or it would have been stated that way. So, I believe the PL Comment was a "sharing of a thought, idea and advice given with good intentions" .

It makes me wonder if you have experienced something in this line where things have gone into the realm of the ridiculous.

Cheers
Wendy

[aak]

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your reply. It clarified that the finish of a cutting board is not in question here.

What I am after though, is trying to understand :? why you think the Public Liability comment was not needed and how that supports your point of the forum no longer being "... an open forum to share thoughts, ideas and advice that is given with good intentions. ..."

The way I read the Public Liability comment was that it is simply a statement of what one person does and why. I don't believe it was meant to be a "You Should or else" comment, or it would have been stated that way. So, I believe the PL Comment was a "sharing of a thought, idea and advice given with good intentions" .

It makes me wonder if you have experienced something in this line where things have gone into the realm of the ridiculous.

Cheers
Wendy


Hi Wendy,

It is really a waste of time from my point of view to spend time with explaining my comments. However, I will give it a go to explain what I said and why I said it.

1) I agreed with the statment of a previous post suggesting the use of grape seed oil.

2) then Cruzi posted the following: "Natural or organic oils can go rancid and become very poisionous.

A lot of people do use organic oils, a lot of people change lanes without indicating, a lot of people smoke.

I sell a lot of boards, and public liability demanded a non-organic oil."

3) I interpreted that rightly or wrongly (I doubt that) that in his view my agrrement with the use of grape seed oil was wrong, that it could make the chopping board rancid, that it was just as wrong as changing lanes without indicating and just as wrong as smoking. And that the correct thing to do was to use non-organic oils and as such avoid public liability issues. In other word I interpreted that "the use of organic oils (including grape seed oil) could create public liability problems".

4) The use of grape seed oil on cutting boards is not a recommendation that could or should draw public liability consequences. The suggestion is proposterous! Just as proposterous, that the board would go rancid because grape seed oil was used to finish it! As I pointed out already HYGIENE, that is, the lack of it, is the reason if and when the boards go rancid.

5) An unfinished cutting borad that is used for cutting/preparing food WILL GO RANCID! (Cruzi's recommendation to leave the board raw or to use parrafin oil.) In my view those who follow this recommendation will have problems with their cutting boards even though they would not succeed with any public liability claim!

6) Suggesting that anyone who recommended or agreed with the use of organic oils (read here grape seed oil, organoil products) for finishing the cutting board could create public liability issues for those who follow that recommendation is unfair the least to say in my view.

7) As I said in one of my previous post, people tend to blame others for their own stupidity and mistakes and sue whenever they can. This is the way today! Public liability issues and protection is something that should be on anyones priority list who contemplates running a business/dealing with the public.

8) Wendy, I do not see why you are not asking Cruzi to justify his posting the way you asked me to justify mine. Further more, I would of thought that you as a forum coordinator (not sure what your proper title is), that you knew that use of grape seed oil was a sound recommendation!

As a final point: I believe using grape seed oil to finish the board is just as good or sound recommendation as any other posts. Also, as I indicated I have better things to do in my free time than justifying my posts, especially when they were correct and meant with good intention in the first place. The suggestion of agreeing with a previous post could put people in trouble with public liability matters if they followed that suggestion is not only wrong but forces me to defend my posting. If and when one needs to justify an honest and correct recommendation, the forum hardly can be called "an open forum to share thoughts, ideas and advice that is given with good intentions". In my opinion on such forums one does not need to justify his/her postings.

It is rather lengthy, but I hope this explains. (I will not provide any further explanations to this thread! Sorry, I reached my limit for this thread).

Regars
Andy

[RufflyRustic]

Hi Andy,

Thank you. You have indeed helped me understand your first posting. For me Point 4, was where the lightbulb went on, so to speak.

I've asked for clarification from you because I didn't understand your point, and if I didn't 'get it', then others may have missed your point or points as well.

As for Grape Seed Oil, I, personally, will never recommend it or use it on cutting boards as I do not believe it is the best finish (for cutting boards, that is). As you have said and I agree completely, it is each person's individual choice what they use.

Again, thank you for explaining your position.

cheers
Wendy

[Cruzi]

I'm sorry, hygiene has nothing to do with why organic oils should not be used.

Organic oils have a shelf life ie, they deteriorate and become unfit for use over time regardless of what you do.

Grape seed oil has a shelf life of a year, olive oil about 18 months and vegetable oils of around 6 months.

Since a board is used for more than the shelf life of the organic oils, a non-drying oil that does not have a shelf life is therefore recommended.

Drying oils ie BLO and HBO and Organoil are considered foodsafe for sure, but this is on non-abraded surfaces, bowls etc. Using such oils on a board that is cut and chopped on means that you will be eating these finishes. Of course you need to consume a lot before any damage may be done to your health, it is still a risk.

Just because something is natural does not automatically mean safe, many natural substances are quite poisonous. The shells of cashew nuts and nightshade for example.

As for Public Liability, I'm not a business but since a lot of what I make, including boards, is not for my own use, it seemed prudent to ensure that if anything ever did go wrong I was covered.
If you choose not to have such a cover it is up to you, insurance to me is better to have and not use than need and not have.
People are now very litigious and will try anything, even a time wasting suit can cost thousands of dollars to get thrown out.


So, to conclude, if you intend to use a board yourself, go ahead use whatever you want, if however the board is to go to another end user, beware, it is your duty of care to ensure the finish you use is safe.

[driftit]

thanks heaps everyone! i'll put up a pic as soon as its done and of the grass tree bowl i just finished thanks 2 everyones help on here!

[ian]

hey guys just another probably simple finishing question. Ive almost finished making a jarrah end grain cutting board for a christmas present and was wondering what to finish it with, if anything????
cheers Toby.....This same question was addressed by a very recent issue of Popular Woodworking or Fine Woodworking I forget and can't immeditely find the issue.

The recommended finish for END GRAIN boards was thinned varnish (thinned 1:1 with the appropriate thinner), keep applying on a daily basis untill no more will soak in. Stand the board on edge between applications of finish.
the reasoning was that the exposed capilaries are very similar to drinking straws and you need to completly fill the "straws" with something impervious so that food scraps and bacteria can't get beyond the surface of the board.

It was recommended that the completed board be given a fresh coating each year.



ian

[Chipman]

Not meaning to start another argument, but I suspect that the species of wood and type of glue will have some influence too. Does anyone have any reliable information on this?

I have heard pine is good and some recommend Titebond II

What about the moisture curing polyurethane glue?


Please no arguments just information please!


Chipman

[Cruzi]

Titebond II and III are FDA approved for non-direct food contact.

Pine scores highly on anti-bacterial tests and Rock Maple is approved for use in hospitality industry in the US.

Basically close grained timbers are prefered.

[STAR]

An interesting article. I have just made a cutting board to give to a friend. from my limited research Google tells me that paraffin oil is favoured overwhelmingly in the USA.

However, maybe because the web information appears to be mostly views from the USA then this information could be biased in that country's favour.

I went the grape seed oil mainly because a commercial producer said that he recommended this way and so I followed it. The jury is still out as far as I see and at this stage would prefer to eat grape seed oil then parrafin oil.

But I understand why Cruzi may not feel so Cruzi going this way.