great grandfather's cigar box

[bassmansimon]

hi :)
i've been asked to restore my girlfriend's great grandfather's cigar box.

here's some pictures of it at the moment - it has lots of years worth of (black stuff?) on the top and (white stuff) inside it, but the base is nice and gives an idea of the wood. any ideas of what kind of wood this is, or how to best restore it?

there is an inlay piece in the top, which i've never had any experience of sanding over - do you have to sand a special way for this to not be destroyed? hinges are kept in just with screws so should be easy to come off.

any help would be great, or a quick step by step for me, a beginner.

also, i don't know what to finish it with when done. it looks like it was probably an estapol (just judging by my basic look at the base of the thing).

thanks!
simon.

[astrid]

I dont know how much experience you have but this is not really a job for a beginner.
Having said that, as long as you apply the "do no damage" rule you cant do any real harm either:D

Explaination, If you DO NOTHING to the actual timber structure you cant do anything that cant be undone.
The finish is probably a shellac, this can be removed with meths an 0000 steel wool.
The inlay should not be removed or sanded unless you have a random orbital sander.
sanding by hand you are bound to accidentally go across the grain at some point leaving small scuffs that will show under your new finish.
so, just wash off all the old finish with meths.
This will mean you dont have to neutalise any stripper or scrape it out of any raised bits.
The box would have been fine sanded when it was made and should still be smooth under the old polish.
So now its clean, check if any inlay is loose or missing.
If any is loose Dont try to take it out, your likely to break it, then your in real trouble.
First press it down with a warm iron (put a bit of butchers paper between the iron and the wood.
This might melt any old glue enought to re stick the loose bits.
If this dont work, try to get some new pva glue under the loose bit, wipe off excess with a damp cloth and put something heavy on top to press the loose bit down. (dont use a bit of wood:rolleyes:). put some waxed paper under the weight.
If any bits are missing, leave them missing, nothing looks worse than a bad patch up and you'll make it hard for you later if you or anyone else wants to do it again

so now you should have an intact box of raw timber.

the fun bit will be repolishing.
Get this far and post again.:D

[rsser]

The white bloom is a puzzle. Was this just your flash?

Good advice from Astrid above.

Just to add: when you're cleaning it up with steel wool and meths at the inlay section, stroke from the inside out to the points. You're less likely to lift off any veneer that way.

If you do, also consider a judicious smearing of superglue to reattach it.

For sanding, you could start with fine paper on a cork block (say 240 grit) but ONLY if the surface is flat. Check that with a straight edge.

[bassmansimon]

yep ok thanks for the responses so far. the white shine is just the flash. the outside of box is quite tainted with black stuff, but yeah the insides has white powder-like mouldy substance.

[astrid]

The black stuff looks like degraded shellac, if will rub off with mets but try soaking an old piece of towel with meths, place it flat on the box top, cover with gladwrap and leave for ten mins, this will slow the evaporation of the meths and soften the shellac up a bit.

personally i wouldnt sand it unless you think its not smooth enough, as i said, you'll be crossing the grain and its fidly

The white powder could be mould or anything stored in the box:D

[AlexS]

First, do no harm. Before removing the shellac (which it almost certainly is) try cleaning the box inside & out using Ubeaut polish reviver (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/reviver.html). This will at least let you see what needs to be done.
This could be quite a valuable box, and its value will be seriously diminished if any repairs are not done properly...and that includes not using PVA or a random orbital sander.

[rsser]

FWIW, I've not had much luck with the Polish Reviver but that was only one application.

And agree with Astrid .... I'd put it this way: you can remove the finish and try to sand the wood back. But you won't get into the corners of the inside properly. That will stick out like dogs' balls.

[bassmansimon]

i'd rather it not look like any kind of balls. so i'll go with the polish remover for the inside first, then use metho with a rag, and then with 0000 steel wool, and will report back (probably after christmas) with pics of it hopefully all back to nice timber. thanks for the advice!

[andrewsd]

Have to agree with Rosser about the reviver. Be extremely careful in the application because, I strongly suspect, it has meths in it which will eat through polish if left too long on the surface (which isn't a problem if your goal is to strip the polish off completely).

[masoth]

What ever you decide to do try it on the bottom of the box first. Although, in the pics, the bottom does not look degraded starting there is going to be not seen during a casual look.

soth

[hap97]

I have been reluctant to suggest a solution as it could be a competitor to our sponsors products.
The product is "Howard Restore-a-Finish".
http://www.howardproducts.com.au/products/restor-a-finish.htm
I have used this on a number of jobs and it is always successful in producing a clean rejuvenated finish. It works very well on any finish such as shellac, french polish and varnishes. As long as some finish is still on the surface this will restore it.
Earlier someone had white heat rings on a table. This is the ideal product for removing the marks.
Some examples of its use are found in my album pages.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/album.php?u=25349

[astrid]

Hello, suggest you guys go back and look at the top again.
The old finish is all bubbly (dunno the tech term) No polish reviver is going to work.
I restored a school honour board and the polish had gone the same way.
I used a razor to scrape it off, came off all powder.
Prolly not a good idea here cos of the inlay, but on second thoughts, Its a small lid and if he's careful that might be the way to go.

[rsser]

Think the tech term is crazed ... ?

Seriously crazed in this case.

[astrid]

I have heard it called crocolage? Like crocodile skin:D

[bassmansimon]

I have heard it called crocolage? Like crocodile skin:D

that's exactly what it looks like on the outside.

sorry it's been a while on this thread - i'm away on holidays at the moment til the weekend. i've ordered some polish reviver, so it should be at my home when i get back. will fix it up hopefully sometime around christmas/new years, and then post back properly.

[bassmansimon]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the helpful suggestions.
I got UBeaut's polish reviver, and worked softly on it for a long time (started with cloth, then went to 0000 steel wool cos that wasn't working, then went back to cloth again.)

To get rid of the polish reviver smell, i just gave the top of the box a very light rub with "Gilly Stephenson's Australian Orange Oil".

See what you think of the pics.

There is a dark spot on the left hand side of the inlay - don't know if this was a figure of the wood to begin with, or if it is something i might be able to help?

[AJ]

Great job Bassmansimon :2tsup:, I like the timber. Has anyone identified what it is.:rolleyes: My guess it is made out of black walnut. Any other ideas?

[bassmansimon]

nobody has identified it yet (or tried to). it would be quite ironic if it was black walnut, because that's the same as what i've used in the first (and so far only) proper box i have made.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=86392