acceptable levels of alcohol consumption

[russ34]

hi , i wont be upset if someone turns up for work on a sat morning hungover unable to do his best because thats just what people do. on a fri nite they get on the grog and performance suffers, cool... but 2-3 times a week, arriving with glassy bloodshot eyes, reeking of grog oozing through his skin, and working in a below average fashion far below his capabilities, i am wondering if i am too soft tolerating this behavior. when i evaluate the good and bad in someone over the long term, he is a sensational, exceptional dedicated employee when is is not hung over, very honest, likeable and worth keeping . but, my question to everyone here is not about keeping someone on.. its about my tolerance of him turning up for work in a sorry state more than occasionaly. safety also is a serious consideration as we are working with powersaws all day ...im hoping for some opinions from employees/employers of if this is acceptable behavior............russ

[DarrylF]

I work in an office environment - so about the most dangerous thing possible is one of my guys knocking his monitor off his desk - and I wouldn't tolerate it.

Depends on the environment and work culture I guess. If, in our office, one of my guys turned up clearly still half shot in the morning or had a liquid lunch he'd be going home - taking a leave day voluntarily or a permanent holiday if he didn't like it.

I've worked in factory type environments and there the attitude would be a little more relaxed - an occasional hangover (looking seedy but still able to function OK) was tolerated, but still drunk or a regular event was not. No way I'd let anyone get away with it more than once in a blue moon.

I guess to me if the guy is otherwise good, I'd be sitting him down for a serious talk. If he didn't respond, he'd be taking a walk. No matter how good he is otherwise, you tolerating it more than once in a long while (especially weekdays) sets a hell of a bad example for the other guys - especially if they have to carry him while he's less than on the ball.

I'm no OH&S nazi - but you really shouldn't allow him to put your future on the line too. If he turns up drunk and causes an accident as a result it's your ass on the line for letting him work. Maybe if you want to get him back on track gently, blame the boss or the insurance company, tell him it's out of your hands. Good guy, bad guy - you know the routine :)

Good luck with it.

[journeyman Mick]

Russ,
I wouldn't let anybody work with a circular saw if they were badly hungover. I've seen too many accidents happen to sober people. I know that in large sections of the building trades alcohol and drug consumption is seen as a right and a way of life but I won't have a bar of it. I've had to rush a bloke to hospital wrapped up in towels to stop all the blood flow and I'm really trying to avoid having to do that ever again. If you're the boss it's your call, if you're the foreman or leading hand it's still your **** on the line if he has an accident. Sit him down for a serious talk and explain that you can't let it go on because you don't want to go to jail or cop a fine if he has an accident. Like Darryl says you can use the "big brother is making me do this" approach if it will make it easier, although chances are if you're foreman or a subcontractor you didn't get to where you are without knowing how to be a hard man when needed. I will tolerate hangovers occasionally but not on a regular basis and certainly not if it endangers anyone.

Mick

[Driver]

Russ

It's very simple. You don't have a choice. You can't tolerate this - on safety grounds alone. If this bloke has an accident, or causes one of his workmates to have an accident, you will share the responsibility.

The fact that you have already noticed his condition means that you have to act.

You should start by taking the "sit down and talk" approach. You can use the "big brother is making me do this" line if you like but make sure that the bloke gets the hard message. He has to change or he has to go.

The full procedure involves a series of verbal and written disciplinary warnings - leading to dismissal if his behaviour doesn't change. If his behaviour does change, you have done him a huge favour. The bloke is on the slippery slope right now. If you need to go down the disciplinary warning track, get yourself some legal advice. Your local chamber of commerce can help.

Don't leave this too long. It's a problem and you have to solve it soon.

Good luck.

Col

[jackiew]

search on dismissal + procedures + <name of your state> in google. For Queensland it turned up this ...

http://www.wageline.qld.gov.au/conditionsemployment/termination_dismissal.html

... definately make written notes of any time you talk to this guy about it, keep copies of any written warnings etc. But I'm with the rest ... you can't ignore someone turning up under-par on a regular basis.

[russ34]

thank you very much for taking the time to reply. he has never been drunk on the job[oh my , the thought of my disciplinary response to that frightens me!] but, being tired or hungover with a saw is the next worse thing...your thoughts have confirmed my idea of warning him that turning up for work like that is not acceptable... heavy drinking is a problem that he has to deal with. its not a problem that i should have to deal with. so, if he wants to stay , he will have to clean up his act. its got to be heaps better 4 the both of us in the long run...thanks again,... russ

[bitingmidge]

he has never been drunk on the job

I'm not so sure! I am astonished at the blood alcohol levels blown in "Morning After" breath testing on roads after a big night out.

A machinery operator I know lost his licence after failing a breath test at 10.30am on New Year's Day, more than 12 hours after he had stopped drinking.

Without wanting to add to your burden, a couple of construction companies I work closely with, have randomly breath tested after lunch and first thing in the morning. I am not sure if this was with Union support, or not, but the safety message was clearly sent!

Cheers,

P

[russ34]

mick from nth qld.... re.. your statement about drugs and alcohol in the building industry..... after returning to the new home building scene recently, i'm quite disapointed to see the constant childish vandalism to the inside of site toilets. how pathetic it is for adults to be writing that sort of garbage. what sort of impression does a homeowner get when he sees the drivel possibly written by those building his home that costs so much.. i was once told about a homeowner that walked in one day to check on things during a break from work....to his dissapointment, the plasterers were passing round a pipe full of dope.... now if anyone needed a savage boot in the backside , they did....russ

[gatiep]

Rus
Life is about choices. There are two sets of choices here:

Set 1:
The worker has two choices:
He keeps on turning up as u mentioned and loses his job ( or worse suffers an accident).
He cleans up his act and keeps his job ( an all his limbs ).

Set2:
You take the hard line, warn him and if no improvement, dismiss him.
Tolerate the behaviour and live with your consience and all sorts of claims when an accident happens and you did not do ur utmost to prevent it.


The fact that you as the employer is worried about the safety etc.....is proof enough that in your case Step2 option 1 is your only option.

Cya
Joe

[journeyman Mick]

Russ,
I regularly come into contact with dope smokers. More so on smaller jobs and usually guys that are doing fairly mundane work - plasterers, concretors, pavers. (No offence intended to any of the above). In their eyes it makes a mundane day more interesting, but I reckon if you really want interesting have a jobsite accident, that'll give you something to remember for the rest of your life! I don't care about what people do at home, but what happens on the job affects lots of people. It drives up insurance rates, increases restrictive legislation that penalises the law abiding, gives the rest of the industry a bad name and endangers the lives of other workers and the public.

Mick

[ozwinner]

I had an Italian partner some years back, and every morning he would have couple of good swigs of grappa ( grappa is Italian for rocket fuel ) before he would fire up.
He always tryed to get me to drink some, but no way, I always save the drinking till I get home.
I make enough mistakes sober!!
Maybe thats what happened to the old dampcourse in my house, it got passed around in the morning, go on mate, have a swig.
It'll stop you from getting damp........... hic.

Al
Instant idiot, Just Add Alcohol :eek:

[Eastie]

Instead of giving the bloke the DFCM treatment think about trying to give him a hand whilst at the same time pointing out that if he doesn't change his ways you have no option but to take further action.
The following is general information - not advice.
[list=1]
If you discipline/sack him make it for productivity, not for OHS;
Unless there is an “immediate” threat to the health and safety of the person in question or others as a result of the person in questions actions or omissions, don’t sack the bloke;
He does not have a drinking problem. You are concerned that he continually shows up for work “looking physically unwell”. No commission in this country will allow the employer to speculate to such an extent in an unfair dismissal case
Keep in mind these conditions: Unfair, Unreasonable or Unjust. If you do dismiss the person and they claim unfair dismissal, you will have to prove the company was reasonable, fair and just in their dealing with the matter.
[/list=1]
Ok, given the bloke is a good employee and there is no “immediate OHS risk” then a good option would be to arrange a meeting with the person. At the meeting discuss your concerns that he/she is continually showing up to work “physically looking unwell” and potentially not in a fit state to perform work safely. Explain that the company has a duty of care to protect the health and safety of all workers, including the individual in question and the company is concerned that an incident may happen if the person in question is not physically or mentally fit for work.
Do your research beforehand weather through the union / trades hall / local council to find an appropriate counseling service (not specifically an alcohol related counselor).
Inform the employee that you have made these arrangements and they “should” utilise the service, which is free and totally confidential. If the employee is a union member ensure he/she informs the union of the meeting and any outcomes (i.e. counseling has been arranged, …). The union should assist with the counseling processes - ongoing issues.

Make an arrangement for a counselor to visit the employee during work hours and on the companies premises. This will help ensure the employee uses this service. The company should cover any costs at this stage.

Should the person present an “immediate risk to OHS towards himself/others”, stand the person down on full pay immediately. The reason for this is it gives you time to work on a dismissal case that will stand up to the rigors of an unfair dismissal action. Depending upon the nature/severity of the OHS breach immediate dismissal can be used, but you must have the evidence to back the case.

If the employee doesn’t cooperate with the softly-softly option then formal warnings may be required in writing, along with a clear explanation of the dismissal procedure (i.e. one verbal, one or two written, …, …, terms for immediate dismissal, etc.). Alternatively if he shows for work visually intoxicated immediate dismissal is an option, but get at least one other manager/super to confirm.

Keep records of the meeting and the outcomes, and agree to a course of action. I've dealt with some real hard cases like this and more often than not once they get over the initial embarrassment/denial most are willing to make a change, whether it be anger management counseling or drug and alcohol management.

Be well aware that if you do nothing and this person injures himself, or even worse injures another employee, the employer will be put under the microscope - and if it comes about that you were aware of the problem and didn't act the consequences can be extreme. Take the worst case scenario that he dies on the job or his actions/omissions cause the death of someone else - the "responsible officer/manager" could be convicted under the state crimes bill (or industrial manslaughter laws) for willful neglect = time or heavy fines or both. I'm aware of two similar cases where such questions were raised and lesser charges were pursued given the defendants undertaking to plead guilty to lesser offences rather than face gaol on the major offences.

Finally, the key to this is confidentiality.


Mark (safety and industrial relations nuffy)