Stain and Gloss

[garfield]

Hi all,

Just got a couple of Questions regarding stain and gloss. I've just about completed a small entertainment unit for a mate at work, which I now need to stain for him. I'm just wondering if anyone knows whether or not you can spray the stain through a spray gun and compressor - or if it's better to just wipe it on?

Gloss - If someone else can tell me how I can achieve that furniture shop type finish? What I mean is I'm after that sort of Matt type gloss finish if that makes any sense. I notice on most of the furniture in these types of places, there is a gloss but it's not a real glass type finish - it's shiny but not too shiny. Hope I make some sense and some out there can help.

Thanks
Geoff.

[timdavis@activ8]

Geoff,
I think the finish you are after can be achieved with a solvent based SATIN polyurethane. Stain first (brush on wipe off) then apply 2-3 coats of poly. My "expertise" extends only as far as floor finishing, but same principal. I use Feast Watson products, they have a good range of stains and urethanes and are readily available from decent paint stores.
Regards, Tim.

[garfield]

Geoff,
I think the finish you are after can be achieved with a solvent based SATIN polyurethane. Stain first (brush on wipe off) then apply 2-3 coats of poly. My "expertise" extends only as far as floor finishing, but same principal. I use Feast Watson products, they have a good range of stains and urethanes and are readily available from decent paint stores.
Regards, Tim.

Thanks very much for that Tim. Can I spray that Satin polyurethane through my compressor spray gun - and is it expensive??

Thanks
Geoff.

[timdavis@activ8]

As mentioned I am only a floor sander so I don't know about spraying. On a flat horizontal surface excellent results can be achieved with polyurethane applied by brush or roller. Most important aspect is removal of dust from work surface and as dust free an environment as possible:indoors and no draughts. Be very wary of solvent fumes highly combustable and very toxic. Wear a particle/gas respirator and avoid skin contact. I buy poly bulk at around $10 litre, smaller quantities expect to pay twice this price, at least, it does however spread a long way: 10-15 sq. metres per litre, further if thinned.

[garfield]

As mentioned I am only a floor sander so I don't know about spraying. On a flat horizontal surface excellent results can be achieved with polyurethane applied by brush or roller. Most important aspect is removal of dust from work surface and as dust free an environment as possible:indoors and no draughts. Be very wary of solvent fumes highly combustable and very toxic. Wear a particle/gas respirator and avoid skin contact. I buy poly bulk at around $10 litre, smaller quantities expect to pay twice this price, at least, it does however spread a long way: 10-15 sq. metres per litre, further if thinned.

So this would be the best and easiest way to achieve this type of finish you think?

[timdavis@activ8]

G;day Geoff,
There's more than one way to skin a cat (hundreds in fact), and no doubt other would dissagree with my system.I find this method most satisfactory. Follow manufacturers instructions to the tee and you should be right (tradesmans rule: if all else fails READ THE INSTRUCTIONS, too often ignored)

[garfield]

G;day Geoff,
There's more than one way to skin a cat (hundreds in fact), and no doubt other would dissagree with my system.I find this method most satisfactory. Follow manufacturers instructions to the tee and you should be right (tradesmans rule: if all else fails READ THE INSTRUCTIONS, too often ignored)

I went to toys for Dad's today and brought a tin of Minax wipe on polyurethane. I have read some good things about it in some threads here after a search earlier today. It sure seems like thin stuff and at a guess I reckon I'll be needing at least 4 coats.

Thanks for your advice and input into this thread timdavis.

[garfield]

Can anyone tell me - how do I know when the wood is smooth enough to start staining? I was using my orbital sander with a 320 Grit non clog sand paper, but it seemed as though it was scuffing up and re scratching the surface. So now I'm doing it by hand.

Thanks
Geoff

[timdavis@activ8]

320 grit should be right (I only fine sand floors to 80-120, prior to staining or coating). Just make sure you've removed any cross-grain scratches and funny looking orbital marks othewise stain will highlight these scratches. Don't know anything about Minwax but too finer sanding can create adhesion problems with 2-pack on floors. Poly on the floor needs a bit of "roughness" to stick and hold onto.

[garfield]

What method is best do you think? I find that somehow I usually always end up with scratch marks left on the wood. what sander is best for the job?

[timdavis@activ8]

Old fashioned hand sanding with the grain should be ok. Suggest you look at threads on staining floors in the Renovators/Flooring/Decking/Stumps etc section of this woodworkers forum. I've just learnt some brilliant staining techniques from the guys there.

[garfield]

Old fashioned hand sanding with the grain should be ok. Suggest you look at threads on staining floors in the Renovators/Flooring/Decking/Stumps etc section of this woodworkers forum. I've just learnt some brilliant staining techniques from the guys there.

So no power tool sanding you reckmon.....

[timdavis@activ8]

Nope. Some finish with steel wool, but none of this funiture finish stuff falls within my field of knowledge.

[garfield]

So I need to get myself a hand sander thingy and rip in with elbow grease then hey :C. So would it still be OK to do the heavy sanding first with the power sanding then follow up with the hand sanding to make it nice and smooth before staining?

[timdavis@activ8]

Blokes love power tools. Next best thing to guns but most of us aren't allowed to play with them any more. Put the sander away, fold up a piece of sandpaper or wrap it round a cork block and start sweating. Unless your cabinet is made of rough sawn hardwood, or displays thicknesser chatter marks(parallel ripples running across the grain) you shouldn't need a power tool. Buy your stain and do what most people don't, read the instructions regarding sandpaper/steel wool grade and finish as per product recommendations. There are some very good products around, foolproof. Even I can do it, almost.

[Ronald200]

Old fashioned hand sanding with the grain should be ok. Suggest you look at threads on staining floors in the Renovators/Flooring/Decking/Stumps etc section of this woodworkers forum. I've just learnt some brilliant staining techniques from the guys there.

I agree, do it the old fashioned way and also follow the instructions. Unless the package says you can or should spray, stick with a brush.

[garfield]

Thanks for the help guys. unfortunately I jumped the gun and started on the cabinet the other day and I have got a couple of marks showing through the stain. Hopefully with the wipe on poly it won't look so bad. I'll try and post some pics later on today.

One more thing, I;m sick of working with bent and warped crap pine. What would be a nice wood that a beginner could work easily enough with? I'll be building an entertainment unit for my lovely wife next and I'd like to use something other than pine, but don't want it to cost me an arm and a leg and would like it to be easy enough for me to work with.

Thanks
Geoff

[garfield]

Hi everyone. Here's some pics of the cabinet I made a mate (it's a bit rough I know) I think with the tips I was given on this thread I'll do it by hand next time and hopefully end up with a nicer looking finish.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/garfield071095/DSC_0059.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/garfield071095/DSC_0066.jpg

[garfield]

some more

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/garfield071095/DSC_0061.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/garfield071095/DSC_0059.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc172/garfield071095/DSC_0059.jpg

[garfield]

As you can all see my staining is sh@thouse! These pictures were taken with only one coat of wipe on poly applied.

[timdavis@activ8]

Pretty bloody good first effort I reckon.
Tip; throw away the power tools and buy a shotgun. Gives funiture and floors a beautiful "distressed" look. Don't laugh, where I live, just up the road in Benambra (also known as Bonanza), they finish everything this way; houses, cars, roadsigns, disputes, even family.

[garfield]

Thanks Tim. I'm not that happy with the way the stain has shown up the scratches and marks left from the belt sander I gather.

[timdavis@activ8]

Looks like you sanded a bit hard across the grain. Belt sanding is ok but you have to remove any cross grain scratches before staining. Bear in mind I'm a floorsander not a cabinet maker, but they sometimes use similar techniques. Not a bad bit of joinery though, it's not too late to resand and stain.

[garfield]

Looks like you sanded a bit hard across the grain. Belt sanding is ok but you have to remove any cross grain scratches before staining. Bear in mind I'm a floorsander not a cabinet maker, but they sometimes use similar techniques. Not a bad bit of joinery though, it's not too late to resand and stain.

Thanks heaps for the compliments Tim. I'm very much a novice still in both wood work and even more so in staining, but this thread has opened up my eyes a lot to a couple things. I'm not a 100% stuck on that wipe on poly stuff though, I find it hard to wipe it on consistently in some areas and might even start another thread and see just what the most common technique in staining and lacquering are.

I appreciate your input into this thread Tim and will post some more pics when the unit is complete (hopefully by the end of this weekend or next).

Thanks
Geoff.