Perth BBQ Saturday 4th October at Derek's Place

[dai sensei]

I will volunteer my place for a get together - Rossmoyne is pretty central for all. ...BBQ and open the playroom on Saturday 4th October.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek has kindly offered to hold a BBQ when I am in Perth :2tsup:.

I thought I would start another thread to make it a bit more prominent to ensure we have a good participation as it was a bit burried within another thread.

I am off to Fiji shortly, so may not be able to post again until the BBQ. Hope to see you all there.

Cheers

[BobL]

Derek has kindly offered to hold a BBQ when I am in Perth :2tsup:.

I thought I would start another thread to make it a bit more prominent to ensure we have a good participation as it was a bit burried within another thread.

I am off to Fiji shortly, so may not be able to post again until the BBQ. Hope to see you all there.

Cheers

DS, as Derek says, the 4th is a Saturday so you may want to change the title.

I'll be coming along but I'll probably try to do some milling earlier in the day so I'll might be rather sawdusty when I arrive.

What time do you plan starting Derek?

[Pops]

Hi Derek,

Thanks for the BBQ offer, again. :2tsup: Please count me in, should be in Perth that weekend.

Look forward to catching up with the Perth gang, Kekemo, Rod1949, Ramps, BobL, Larry M etc. And of course you too Neil. :D

Cheers,
Pops

[funkychicken]

Hmm...How much is a flight to Perth?

[Cliff Rogers]

:2tsup:

[derekcohen]

Hi folks

I thought we could aim for a lunch time BBQ, with a start time around 10:00 a.m. That should give everyone a relaxed start to a weekend.

I am happy to supply all but the grog, so BYO.

Please email me for my address, and also so that I can keep track of the numbers. [email protected]

Larry raised the possibility of a masterclass and suggested sharpening. We can do something along these lines if others want. For example, I (and others who may volunteer) can demonstrate freehand sharpening of blades with the Side Sharpening method, and any number of honing guides (Veritas, Ecllipse, Sharp Skate, and Kell). I have the Tormek, a 8" dry grinder, a belt sander, and a full range of waterstones. Nothing leaves my workshop if it is not sharp!

Other ideas: cutting dovetails, using hand planes, using a shooting board(s) ..

Of course, it is not necessary to do any of this in a formal way - these things are there to be played with anyway. Plus there are a large number of handtools to try out, if you wish. Some will be interested in the new offerings of Lee Valley/Veritas, as well as some other makes. One thing I can promise is that there will be tools for all interests (and I am not ignoring the power area).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[dai sensei]

Here I am in Fiji at an internet cafe catching up. Great to see everything is in hand :2tsup:

Derek - I'll give you a ring when I get down your way.


Hmm...How much is a flight to Perth?

Check out the usual internet sites for the cheapest, mine was around $700 from Bris.

[funkychicken]

Here I am in Fiji at an internet cafe catching up. Great to see everything is in hand :2tsup:


Pics? C'mon Neil, get with it:2tsup:


I doubt I'll make it. I'd love to swing by and check out Derek's evergrowing stash of tools and meet more forumites but y'know

[dai sensei]

Pics? C'mon Neil, get with it:2tsup:

:U Have to wait till I get back from WA, no way to download/resize here. I'll probably post under travel and/or fishing

[Wild Dingo]

So do we know WHO exactly is coming yet?... another two weeks!!

Derek Ive zapped you an email... yeah yeah Ive been there but mate I gots this memory thing happenin its doin its thing and nothings happenin! :doh: :;

Anyway I will cut some of the veneers a tad shorter than their 8 - 10ft lengths and bring them up when I come and people can take what they need and make something special as they can... dont sweat it I have shyteloads and need to minimize everything anyway and who better to get the veneers than people who love wood? No one!

Gotta check with work but it should be cool havent had a day off since I started so one Saturday should be fine then back into it again on Sunday... she'll be right I reckon :; If not then for some strange reason I will be unable to turn up and have to chuck a days pay ah well such is life :roll: as they say "tuff titties" I gots other things to do that partickular Saturdy! :2tsup:

Cheers
Shane

PS... oooh an yer wrong by the way... some of my items I wandered up with last time ahem left blunt if you recall? just tuggin yer chain me ol china! :2tsup:

[Burnsy]

Unfortunately the Saturday is out for me so I will have to reside myself to only reading about all the fun and entertainment after the fact. l know Derek always has his camera on hand so I will be waiting for the photos and run down.

If anyone from up my way (Kalamunda or the general vicinity - I work in Kelmscott so that area is also good) is attending please pm me as would like to arrange for someone to pickup a handplane from Pops for me if it is at all possible.

Cheers,
Mike

[dennford]

"arrange for someone to pickup a handplane from Pops"

I will definitely be there so the offer to pick up your plane is okay - now I suppose that Pops looks a bit like gandalf? - I'll keep an eye open for him.

Denn

[derekcohen]

To all ..

Denn asked me a question about sometning that I had not given any thought to (being too laid back about everything ..). He wanted to know if he could bring his partner.

I have not suggested that partners come, but I also have not suggested that partners do not come. I have no problem either way, although they may get bored as we wander off and leave them... :; My wife will be there - and she has absolutely no interest in woodworking (she may, in fact, start up a "I hate woodworking" forum of her own! :o).

Let me know what you think.

Regards

Derek

[Pops]

"arrange for someone to pickup a handplane from Pops"

I will definitely be there so the offer to pick up your plane is okay - now I suppose that Pops looks a bit like gandalf? - I'll keep an eye open for him.

Denn

Hi Denn,

Yep, am still on track to attend and yes, think of Gandalf with a trim to that white beard and that is me. Oh, and I will have a Turner handplane in my hand instead of a magic staff. :rolleyes: Burnsy will be appreciative if you can get it to him.

Derek,

I will not be bringing any company, other than the Turner for passing on to Burnsy,... and some bottles of Red, for after we have finished handling sharp implements of course. :2tsup:

Can't wait to see that new bandsaw. :D

Cheers
Pops

[Burnsy]

Hi Denn,

Yep, am still on track to attend and yes, think of Gandalf with a trim to that white beard and that is me. Oh, and I will have a Turner handplane in my hand instead of a magic staff. :rolleyes: Burnsy will be appreciative if you can get it to him.

Derek,

I will not be bringing any company, other than the Turner for passing on to Burnsy,... and some bottles of Red, for after we have finished handling sharp implements of course. :2tsup:

Can't wait to see that new bandsaw. :D

Cheers
Pops

So I can expect the Turner to have a freshly ground and honed blade when I pick it up from Denn then:2tsup::p

Drop me an email with your bank details Pops and I will deposit the money into your account, otherwise it may take another 12 months before we manage to cross paths for you to get payment:o

Cheers,
Mike

[dennford]

So I can expect the Turner to have a freshly ground and honed blade when I pick it up from Denn then:2tsup::p


Cheers,
Mike


That is unless Denn tries it out on one of these old railway sleepers.:o:o:o

See ya'll there.

Denn

[Wild Dingo]

:U Yep I reckon ol Burnsy will be lucky to get it back with ANY sort of blade left if you an me get our mits on it!! :U Im a fair champion at blunting any and I do mean ANY sorta blade!

wine or beer what a choice!!... mmm actually going to work the other day down near Busso I passed a sign at one of those vino yards that said it had some "snottygobble" wine for sale?... now me Id be a tad weary an fair leary of some plonk called "snottygobble red" :roll: but I reckon some of yous mob would drink anything as long as its alcholic!! So I'll grab young Joshy and head down there today and see if I can score a couple of bottles :2tsup: HEY!! I might even take a wee trip to Kirup and get some Syrup and Kickarse!!

oooh right sorry Derek not a "EBS" propa I was gettin carried away again :B Well I will do that anyways to stock the bar for Chrissy... its on its way you know!! :2tsup:

Okay... so Ive sorted the veneers and theres a fair stack coming with me... oh Burnsy I'll give Denn the ebony and maple to pass on to you okay?... no cost just want/need to part with some of the excess and Id rather give it away to people who appreciate timber than sell it to those who dont... mmm maybe I should just whack a tin on the back of the car for tips? or maybe call it the "save the dingo slush fund" Hahahaha nah she'll be right

mmm blunt tools?? mmm well the chisels could do with a sharpening mmm what else? oh can you sharpen those Jap saws? cause one of mines a tad blunt... and as Derek knows when I say a tad he wouldnt use it but I do!... actually the only other things that need attention are the lathe chisels so I will throw them in as well... hey! better check if ol BobLs coming cause if he is I will chuck the chainsaw in and he might have a gander at it for me... damned cold down here without bein able to sort the fireplace timber stack...

mmm maybe that will do me eh? else ol Derek wont have any time to sharpen his or anyone elses tools!!

Maybe next time I will host it here? with 2 acres plenty of room for overnighters we'll slot it in for a week when Im here alone and we can go ballistic!... well do the shed stuff first of course but then??... okay Im thinking closer to Chrissy say November sometime?... we can yammer about that at the meetup and post any conclusions musings whatever here with the pics.

Mind you all this is all good and fine but come the day knowing me I will probably get in the car and just drive up there and not realize Ive forgotten EVERYTHING until I turn into Dereks driveway!! :doh: Nah Ive put the veneers to one side in the living room so I will no doubt trip over them on the way out on the day!

Hey! Has anyone devised a name badge or some such just so we know who the heck we are? I mean I know Derek but Im not sure about me... or you other bods!... and Ive got a memory like the proverbial sieve! name tags are good heck just yer name in BIG letters on yer forehead are better!!... mmm fine idea there Shane okay will know who I am I'll be the short curley mopped manic troppo fella with the WILD DINGO name on his forehead :U

OH!! and I reckon Dereks missus lovely lady that she is would love to have other sheilas affected by "woodworkitis" addicted hubbies to yarn to while we do our thing... good lady is Dereks missus! no actually they are both good people :2tsup:


mmm so Derek given the heepings of compliments Ive just given and the assistance Im offering shall I bring the A frame with me?... you know to bring the porche home? :q

Cheers
Shane

oooh and if anyones thinkin of backing out cause you dont wanna listen to my dulcet tones dont sweat it in person Im a church mouse wont even know Im there you wont and Im short enough that you wont see me until yer step on me... so relax come along and have a ball... a "plane" ball that is... at "Derek the keeper of the plane" shed :; has more planes than a bloke has any right to I reckon :2tsup:

[Wild Dingo]

Okay!! Joshy an I decided that boredom was out this morning an so we arced up the 4x4 and headed bush... south... finally ended up where I wanted to end up all the time just didnt tell him!

Kirup

Soooo without further ado I gots me a bottle well okay its a plagon of Kickarse and a couple of bottles of Kirup syrup and while wandering our way back home decided to have lunch at the Capel tavern and ended up leaving with a couple of bottles of clean skins

Called...


"Snottygobble merlot"... dont think its a merlot cause if it is its a bloody pale merlot but whatever ones coming with me and one of the kirup syrup...

If I can figure out how to decant the kickarse into a smaller bottle Id bring some of that as well... but well its a kinda really NICE drop soooo I gotta stop drinkin it to be able to bring some with me!! :roll:

Im not a big drinker... 3 pot screamer on the beer... so Ive kinda taken to a few quiet reds... whites taste like vinigar to me so red it is... as to beer Ive kinda taken to a Tassy brew called hammer and tongs not a bad drop its either that or cascade but as I say not much of a beer drinker I get pickled rather swiftly on that stuff nowadays :roll:
So I think Derek says he doesnt mind supplyin the tucker... so I'll bring the veneer and some plonk along with me blunt chisels and bobs yer uncle... well I hope bobs me uncle cause me chainsaw needs his ministrashuns :;

Okay one other thing... anyone in the Bunbury region needs a lift give me a hoi as long as you dont mind going with a smoker... yeah I know I HAVE to give the damned things up but I only smoke with the window wide open and always spray sexy stuff before an afta so it smells like me... you know sexywexy ol fella scent :U :U Anyway lifts on offer comfy aircon Prado chip in for fuel if you want or not your choice easy as well Im easy anyway :; :; :2tsup:

cheers
Shane

[BobL]

Soooo without further ado I gots me a bottle well okay its a plagon of Kickarse and a couple of bottles of Kirup syrup and while wandering our way back home decided to have lunch at the Capel tavern and ended up leaving with a couple of bottles of clean skins


Kirup Pies Mate! did ya get any pies? :2tsup: They are sensational. They have domed tops and a fulla goodies. Bit on the pricey side but we stop everyy ear and buy a half dozen on our way to and from Walpole. In fact that strip is a bit of a shopping drag. Kirup for syrup and pies, Donnybrook for fruit and veg, and then the missus gets all excited about the hand made organic cosmetics place in Balingup (we never get out of there without giving the plastic a severe working over). Then at odd times during the year this perfumed soap appears in the bathroom - "where's me trusol" I ask, "this girlie stuff doesn't shift the chainsaw grease!"

[Wild Dingo]

Gidday Bob
No mate didnt get any pies... have been mentioned to me only in passing but as a person not particularily into pies havent been overly encouraged to buy some.
As no one has made a list of whos coming yet... ahem... tap tap... are you coming up Bob?

Okay lets see if I can get the list started at least...

1) Derek! :doh:
2) Denn
3) Pops
4) Me
5) Fiji boy :q
6) ???


Maybe mightbe couldbe...

1) flunckychook :q
2) ???

Cheers
Shane

[BobL]

Don't worry about the "po-e-is" - only if ya's happen to be passin' Kirup again.

Yep - I'll be there - I've got a couple of things to do Sat Morning so might get there a bit later.

Dai Sensei (Neal from Nerang [QLD]) is coming.

Shane - I have something (woody) for you as well!

Cheers

[Pops]

Don't worry about the "po-e-is" - only if ya's happen to be passin' Kirup again.

Yep - I'll be there - I've got a couple of things to do Sat Morning so might get there a bit later.

Dai Sensei (Neal from Nerang [QLD]) is coming.

Shane - I have something (woody) for you as well!

Cheers

And Bob,

Don't forget the homemade sausage rolls to go with those fantastic pies. :2tsup: Have to admit I always stop there too, even in driving rain would get out and make my way to the shop. Don't go for the cosmetics myself either, makes the beard gooey.:D

I am guessing that Ding is referring to Dai Sensei when he quoted 'Fiji boy'. (Am sure Derek is keeping count.)

What about Les M. Are you able to make it mate?

Ding, Got to get a look at your veneers sound impressive.

Sounds like we are going to have a Red wine afternoon then, but I guess somebody has to drink the stuff, hmmm. :rolleyes:

[Wild Dingo]

I am guessing that Ding is referring to Dai Sensei when he quoted 'Fiji boy'. (Am sure Derek is keeping count.)

What about Les M. Are you able to make it mate?

Ding, Got to get a look at your veneers sound impressive.

Sounds like we are going to have a Red wine afternoon then, but I guess somebody has to drink the stuff, hmmm. :rolleyes:

aaahhh yes the reds mmmmmmmmmmmm dont mind if I do thank ye kindly ol son... chin chin an all that eh wot :; must admit I do tend to start talkin a bit well rather posh after half a dozen or so... but its okay another couple an Im yarnin fair dinkum again an then silence as I hit the deck :U

The veneers... anything particular you would like pops? can do some different ones just NOT the rosewood... am impressed out of my head with that stuff... theres a couple that are the last of what I have ie the redwood but most if needed for a particular project I can get more to you if you want

mmm bubinga I can do more of same with the black walnut and birdseye maple the ebony Im holding onto for some insane reason... anyway will bring some along and yous mob can take what you want/need and let me know if you want/need more of something so I can tell yer where to go... ahem sorry bout that but Ive always wanted to say that... anyway I can let you know if Ive got more or not.

Hey Derek... tucker mate you want me to bring along some steak or something? Dont think you an yer missus should be shelling for us mobs tucker just doesnt seem right somehow :no:

Cheers
Shane

[kekemo]

Looking forward to BBQ...
No not bringing Ed... he'd just sit there not mixing & not talking... he'd just gather more dust...so leaving him on sitting up on the wine cabinet.... can't believe its over two years... since he skipped town... for heaven... just hoping he's enjoying watching me curse... getting good at that lately... especially on Friday


WHY you ask....
son No2 borrowed my cruiser... to get some idiot out of the bog....didn't ask me...I didn't know he'd taken it.... but he had to phone & tell me.. car's off the road.. & in the creek... up to the headlights...could I get help>>>>>
%#$@*&^!!!!!! Yes I said that and more......
Tractor had to pull him out...only real bad damage his pride... and the central locking....Oh...& MUM will keep good note of this one....
WHO cleans it up?
MUM.... Skye flew out for 12months in Japan 9am today.... so yes I'm busy taking seats out... rubber mats... but have to dry out underneath....undoing headlights... Yep there full of water.... Guess who's not allowed to touch my cruiser ever ever ever ever again......
Son number 3 ..... said" Mum I would have done the same thing.... I would have borrowed it....BUT gee's I wouldn't have told you!!!!
THANK GOODNESS ITS A TOYOTA>>>>>>>

I have been so busy trying to get bed finished...
But have done some awsome work on my caravan.... will post on another area...pretty chuffed... with the welding... & the panel work...
...NOW I HAVE TO LEARN TO BE AN AUTO-ELECTRICIAN in the next few days....
Think GOD's punishing me for my warped sense of humor....

So... in short...not bringing hubby....he can stay home....
.... he hasn't even be talking to me lately...!!!
I will come & enjoy...
Will bring laptop to show some photos of my woodwork & welding....
Thats if anyone would like to see them....
See you all there.....
Keep well & stay safe...
Sh..Ed Lady.... Woodworking Butterfly.....
KEKEMO

[Pops]

aaahhh yes the reds mmmmmmmmmmmm dont mind if I do thank ye kindly ol son...

Hi Shane,

No worries mate, just don't go spilling any of the them Reds on the veneers now. :D

Mmm, Black Walnut and Birdseye Maple? They sound beautiful. But don't bring any special for me, will just drool over whatever you bring along. :2tsup:

Kekemo, Good to hear you can make it, with your laptop too. :2tsup:

See you all there boys and girls.

Cheers
Pops (hic*! Just trying a few Reds out, making sure they are not off)

[Wild Dingo]

As to the matter of the reds... I will bring one of the duo of Snottygobble merlot I got the other day... and let someone braver than me try it first if they dont fart radically and drop dead I'll join em!!!

Snottygobble merlot :U now THAT is an unforgettable name for a wine! :U:U

[bookend]

I'm in too!

I'm looking forward to meeting you all and listening to your wisdom over a couple of drinks.

See you there

[Juffy]

I met Derek today to nick some of his tools, and he demanded that I show up. So consider me in....it'll give me a chance to lean on Shane some more so he can bleat about how "bloooody ginooooooormous" I am. :U

Definitely interested in any learning going on as well, being a relative newbie to woodworking (and the world, compared to you blokes...)

Edit: If anyone lives up Midland/hills way and wants to do some serious elbow-bending, I'm happy to provide transport. :)

[dai sensei]

Hey Derek, what do you like to drink?

At least let me bring that along, but let me know if you want us to bring anything else. Desert maybe?

Cheers

[derekcohen]

Hi Neil

An extra desert will not go amiss. There will be about a dozen joining us.

I have almost got the workshop set up - everything is out of the container, where all was packed for 9 months while the addition was in its infancy.

Yesterday it still looked like this ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Workbench%20and%20Workshop/Workshopmess2.jpg

.. and this ..

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Workbench%20and%20Workshop/Workshopmess1.jpg

How will it look when you all get here? :;

Now I need to sharpen up a few blades.

Loooking forward to breaking in a new BBQ with all ...

Regards

Derek

[wheelinround]

Derek good luck with the weekend GTG make use of it a mas clean up team at hand :;

[Wild Dingo]

Well!!!... seems me young fellas really looking forward to coming along so Ive now got NO CHOICE!!... IM COMIN!!! :o

Josh will bring along the set of chisels I bought him when I got the mini lathe for his pen turning exploits... gotta get him a better set I guess but as a starter the boxed sets the go... so hopefully some pen turner will trot along and give him the heads up on "how to" :2tsup: then he can show me!! :doh: also 2 of the new hamlet chisels that need a touchup... Ive also thrown the Chainsaw in just in case Bob wants a play :;

Veneers are in the 4x and snottygobble merlot along with a small bottle of kirup syrup... sorry but after having a wee taste test of the stronger Kirup Kickarse you blokes wont appreciate its delights! :q I'll chuck a couple of Hammer and Tongs in there for the beer drinkers :;

Anyone know the location of the ahem... you know??? cant drink and drive so maybe I better book a room nearby?... nah only a taste tester... and with some fine Derek an missus tucker all will be majickal :2tsup:

Okay see yous mob there!!... mmm aint got no name plate or hat with nameplate mmm wonder how anyone will know who the blazes I am?? I KNOW!! I am the shortwheeled based bloke with the curls white mo and charming smile... well it will be when the damned dentist gets his finga out and gets me some new lower choppers!!... anyway the good lookin one with the little blonde fella by his side

Cheers for settin this up Derek... HEY!! Thats a wiz gang new big bandysaw isnt it? you only had a wee fella when I was there last! Good stuff the big ones eh?... mmmm should I bring you some timber?

Cheers!
Shane

[Wild Dingo]

I met Derek today to nick some of his tools, and he demanded that I show up. So consider me in....it'll give me a chance to lean on Shane some more so he can bleat about how "bloooody ginooooooormous" I am. :U



GINOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOROUS???? MATE!!! Ginooooooooooooormous is a bloody understatement!!! friggin great cloud muncher :q Man this blokes so damned tall he would have to duck to get under the Sydney Harbor Bridge!!! :o And thats if he was walkin under the water!! TALL??? MAN!!! good god hes tall seriously tall!! :roll: I thought Christopha was tall when he wandered into me shed but by crikey even he didnt have to duck to get through the 2.4mtr high doors Jeremy bent almost enough to touch his toes!!... yep your tall mate! :; 7ft 20in in his socks I reckon at a good guess :;

But no worries he aint modest about it either top bloke is our Jeremy! :2tsup:

Bloody cloud munchers... Tis a worry when a fella stands next to this bloke I can tell yer... I reckon Im a normal sized bloke meself but next to Jeremy I dont even reach his friggin hips!!! Massive gigantic HUMUNGOUS!!! Betcha the missus is 4ft 2 in her stockings! :U:U

but a good bloke :;

See you there mate... ooh and lets make sure theres a pic eh? Call it the "Long and the short of it!" :U

Cheers!

[Juffy]

Bloody cloud munchers... Tis a worry when a fella stands next to this bloke I can tell yer... I reckon Im a normal sized bloke meself but next to Jeremy I dont even reach his friggin hips!!! Massive gigantic HUMUNGOUS!!! Betcha the missus is 4ft 2 in her stockings! :U:U

Ahh, you spin such a lovely line of complete twaddle, Shane. :inlove:

Actually she's 5'9" and 1/8 Maori - we figure our kids will be gigantic front row'ers for the Wallabies.

[Wild Dingo]

Ahh, you spin such a lovely line of complete twaddle, Shane. :inlove:

Actually she's 5'9" and 1/8 Maori - we figure our kids will be gigantic front row'ers for the Wallabies.

Nah mate... THEY'LL BE THE WHOLE DAMNED TEAM!! :q Wont be any room left on the field with your offspring out there!! :U

One thing about those Kiwi girls they are not only beautiful but they have a fine sence of the utterly rediculous... and have like all sheep chuckers have sex on the brain... taught from an early age of course... at age what? oh right sex or sucks :U :U :U

Kiwis mad buggars but yer gotta love em! :2tsup:

[Calm]

Whats the time over there

Where are all the photos

Did it happen

:feedback: :worthless:

Come on you blokes we in the east have seen the sun set and want to know what went on:D:D:D

[dennford]

Whats the time over there

Where are all the photos

Did it happen

:feedback: :worthless:

Come on you blokes we in the east have seen the sun set and want to know what went on:D:D:D


Sure did happen, they're not a bad bunch - even that guy from Queensland.

Yes it was a good day but I am currently entertaining at my place (busy boy) so will post some pic's tommorow but I am sure that in the meantime someone else will tell you all about it.

Thanks to Derek and his wife for thier hospitality.

Denn

[Juffy]

Kekemo's got the pics, we'll have to wait for her to stop building beds...

Great to meet a bunch of fellow sawdust makers, and it's comforting to see that they're not all grand masters - makes me feel a bit better about being a complete noob. :U

Many thanks to Derek and ...Linda(?) for opening their shed and house. Derek walked us through his impressive collection of planes, to much 'ooh's and 'aah's and 'what, no power cord?'s, and demo'ed a few ways of sharpening things until they're so sharp they feel blunt...

[dennford]

Looks like we have migrated to another thread..

Here http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=80250

Denn