Problem with sealing wood dye

[michael@arcadia]

Hello. This is my first post here, so please be gentle.

I am building some loudspeaker cabinets out of laminated birch plywood with hardwood veneered ends (the laminates are showing, and the veneering covers the outside softwood layer of the ply).

I have sanded these down to 240 grade with a random orbital sander and the result is beautifully smooth (you can't feel any grain or laminations).

I want to wax polish these, but first, I want to stain them.

I have stained them with a spirit based dye "Blackfriar Wood Dye", and then sealed them with "Liberon Spirit Based Sanding Sealer". The sanding sealer did not completely dry even after 24 hours, and when I sanded off as directed, the sandpaper clogged with dark gunge and the finish was far less smooth than when I started (prior to staining).

1. I have since learnt that spirit based stains/dyes should be sealed with a shellac sanding sealer. Was this my mistake?

2. I have also learnt that water based dyes can and should be sealed with my spirit based sanding sealer. Is this correct?

3. The 64,000 dollar question is: Given the above, which combination will provide me with the best finish (spirit based dye + shellac sealer, or water based dye + spirit sealer)? I will be using "Liberon Black Bison Fine Paste Wax" to complete.

Please help. I am very keen to get the best finish possible (very smooth with a hard glossy sheen.

Thanks in advance.

Michael

See photos: Luckily I had started with the bases, so not too much damage...

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii122/michaeljamesrutherford/wood1.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii122/michaeljamesrutherford/wood2.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii122/michaeljamesrutherford/wood3.jpg

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii122/michaeljamesrutherford/wood4.jpg

[ubeaut]

Water based dye any finish except water based.

However. Dye must be sealed into the timber with a surface coating, shellac, poly u or another finish it doesn't matter, but it must be sealed in. You can not wax directly over it as it will pull off the surface if wet or handled later on. Seal with shellac or other surface finish and then wax is fine

Spirit based dye - turpentine of water based finish.

Turpentine based dye (stain) shellac finish or if dried for atleast 24 hrs a turpentine based finish (polyurethane, Danish Oil, etc) spraying lacquer

Basically you need an incompatible finish over your stain. Except for the turpentine based ones which have a dryer in them and basically act as a weak paint solution allowing for a variety of finishes to be used.

Hope this is of some help

Cheers - Neil :)

[michael@arcadia]

Thanks for the reply.

I am going to go with a water based dye, and seal with a shellac sealer, then polish with wax.

I will post to let the forum know go I got on.

[ubeaut]

You would be better to give a few coats of shellac before waxing just to make sure you have a good protective base coat and a decent surface to build your wax finish on.

I've seen what can happen to speakers and wax alone over shellac sealer won't be enough protection especially on a hardwood veneer. You only need one idiot to put a drink on the top of the speaker and you could be in trouble.

Don't think it won't happen. Flat surface syndrome dictates that the surface should be used for putting alcohol filled glasses on but not until the glass has a wet bottom and never on a drink coaster if there's one supplied.

Cheers - Neil :)