Rub on poly won't dry? What to do?

[ahemsa]

I have an old rifle stock that I had hoped to refinish. It had shellac on it that was flaking off. Although the rifle is old, I was not looking to preserve the original finish, rather I wanted to strip it, stain it the color I want, and then put a durable poly on it.

I started out with Kleen Strip brand wood stripper and took most of the shellac off. The little bits that didn't come off with the stripper I got with 150 grit sandpaper. I then went over the whole stock with 220 grit sandpaper.

My dad has always had good luck with minwax brand finishes, so I figured I would use them. I started with pre-stain conditioner for oil based finishes. I put this on and after about 10 minutes, per the instructions, started with the stain. I chose Red Mahogany color, if it matters. I put on a coat of stain, let it sit for several minutes and rubbed off the excess. I let the stock dry for about 5 hours and put on a second coat of stain before I went to bed. (around 9 p.m.)

The next day, at around 2 p.m. I got the chance to start with the final finishing. The stain seemed dry by this time so I started with the wipe on poly. I noticed that the can of stain specifically said not to use polycryclic over red mahogany stain, but I was using the oil based poly so I didn't figure it would be an issue. I let this sit for several hours and then came back to it. It seemed dry enough so I started to sand it lightly before the next coat. I was somewhat surprised to find that the sandpaper wanted to pick up the color of the stain. I couldn't tell by looking at the stock that anything was "coming off" but I don't ever remember the color coming onto the paper in any of dad's projects before. I figured that my memory isn't really the best so I put another coat on it anyway, yesterday at about 5p.m.

Ever since that coat I have been checking up on it every few hours and it has been tacky every time. Even this morning, after 13 hours of drying time it's still tacky. I can't help but think that something is seriously wrong.:((

I'll accept the fact that I did something wrong. If I had to guess I would say that maybe the wood wasn't dry enough after the stripper, or maybe there was enough leftover cosmoline soaked into the wood to keep the new stuff from penetrating. Whatever the cause, now I need a fix.

I was thinking about trying to remove the poly by wiping it down with mineral spirits, letting it dry real good and starting over. That's just a guess, however, so I would welcome any suggestions as to the best way to procede.

Thanks!

[Wongo]

Give it another day. What is the temperature like?

[ahemsa]

I don't have a thermometer in my garage where I am working but it's been high 80's outside and 70 in the house. The garage is not directly air conditioned so it is somewhere between the two, usually more closely favoring the outside temperature.

[Wongo]

Just give it more time and it will dry sooner or later.

[ahemsa]

What's odd is that my father's garage would without a doubt be cooler than mine year round and he's never had a problem. All his A/C duct work runs through his garage and there is enough leakage to keep it pretty cool, combined with the fact that it is partially underground. Air conditioners do make great dehumidifiers though. I wonder if the increased leakage in his garage results in a much lower humidity, thus helping his finishes dry more quickly despite the lower temperature.

[durwood]

I think there is a good chance that there was still stripper in the timber and it is now attacking the coating on top.

There is only one way to make sure you get the finish you want, remove the non drying paint completely. and then clean the timber to make sure it is only timber you are coating over.

If you need to determine that your materials are compatable with each other and that they are going to produce the finish you want apply them to a piece of timber (without stripper being involved) if they dry properly then you know it was the stripper. If they still don't dry they can't be used together. (you will have to find a different stain or clear).

Either way non drying finish never become anything more that a poor one even if it eventually going hard. If the stain or paint are old they may not dry as they should.

Moisture should not effect the finish actually it helps it dry, cold temperature is your worry most paints do not dry as they should if the temperature falls below 15 deg C. Normally paints are made to operate in normal temperature one would be comfortable in - too cold stops them too hot they dry too fast to paint areas which are large.

[Chipman]

I think Durwood is on the right train of thought......

Could be stripper still in the wood or even wax causing problems (often shellac finishes are kept looking good with regular waxings) and you really have no way of knowing what sort they used... could be even a car wax with silicon present :oo:

The only way is the take it all off and clean it very well.... paint strippers often come with cleaning solutions..... Talk to your paint shop... they can probably guide you in what to use.

Note that oily/waxy woods always have problems with the finish drying and I often use acetone to give it a good clean (and allow it to dry over night) to help solve the problem.

Hope you get to the bottom of it,

Chipman:)

[ahemsa]

After 24 hours it was still very tacky. I took mineral spirits and rubbed off the old new varnish. I then sanded it down again to get rid of any spots that were still even the slightest bit tacky. Of course the sanding had a negative impact on my stain. I wiped all the dust off of it and let it dry thoroughly and re-stained it.

Yesterday when I got home it was still a little tacky in places with just the stain. I took it outside and set it in the bed of my pickup truck, which is black and was parked in the sun. I let it sit there until the sun went down. When I got it I found a few places where it looked like the stain had seeped out, it looked like pine tar seeping out of a log, but not nearly to that extent. I carefully and thoroughly wiped all of this down. It felt pretty dry, I figured I could probably get by with it but I decided to experiment anyway. The stock is in two pieces, it has a small upper barrel cover that is very thin and was very dry. I went ahead and varnished that last night but left the rest of the stock on my workbench to dry overnight.

This morning the barrel cover was dry, not a bit tacky. I sanded it lightly and put another coat on it. The rest of the stock seemed good and dry too so I went ahead and put a coat on it. I'll check it when I get home. If it's not quite dry it may find it's way to the back of the truck again.

I think I've got it whipped this time. I'll let you know and post pics when it's done. Thanks for all the help!

[Chipman]

Sounds like a lot of oil or something has gone into that stock over the years!

I hope it works out now:2tsup:

Chipman:)

[Cruzi]

Had this problem with wipe on poly myself, easily fixed, make sure you shake the poly well before applying, got lazy one day and just grabbed the can and started applying, it took days to dry :doh:

[ahemsa]

I have been shaking the can, although truthfully it probably wouldn't be a bad thing to shake it longer. I still think it's taking longer to dry than it should, but it is drying. Depending on how the latest coat looks, today might be the day I put it back together, if not it will probably be tomorrow.:2tsup:

[Chipman]

I have been shaking the can, although truthfully it probably wouldn't be a bad thing to shake it longer. I still think it's taking longer to dry than it should, but it is drying. Depending on how the latest coat looks, today might be the day I put it back together, if not it will probably be tomorrow.:2tsup:


.... it was something in the previous finish as even the stain was not drying properly and as you said, you had tar like stuff seeping out of the wood!.

Not Shaking the can or following the instructions would obviously make the problem worse though.

Chipman

[ahemsa]

Well I went home last night and it was plenty dry. I decided to put one more coat on it. This morning that coat is nice and dry. I'll put it all back together when I get home and post some pictures.

[ahemsa]

Before:

http://www.wku.edu/~nathan.plemons/graphics/firearms/nagant_left.jpg
http://www.wku.edu/~nathan.plemons/graphics/firearms/nagant_right.jpg

After:

http://www.wku.edu/~nathan.plemons/graphics/firearms/mosin_new_left.jpg
http://www.wku.edu/~nathan.plemons/graphics/firearms/mosin_new_right.jpg