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fozz
25th July 2008, 01:10 AM
G’day folks,
First off I’d like to thankyou all for a great forum with a huge amount of information. It has helped me immensely in making decisions on purchases of machinery over the last few months that have been a pleasure to use.

A little over three months ago I was asked by a good friend if I would like to build a wall unit for a couple that she works for. She knows that I am a qualified cabinet maker and also knew that I’d been out of the trade for a number of years. I explained that at the time I was not setup to do large cabinets but would contact the customer to see what they wanted.

After meeting with the couple and finding out what they were after, a wall unit 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.5 metres in size and made from select Victorian ash and matching veneered board, I explained that as I was not setup to do the job and would have to outsource the cutting and would do the assembly and finishing of the cabinet.

I contacted a friend who started his cabinet making apprenticeship at the same time as I did and who had stayed in the industry and explained what I was after. While his quote for the job was very reasonable, I felt that maybe there was another way. I contacted the couple and explained that I had obtained a quote but felt that I could better the price and make it a win win situation for both of us. This led me to finding a source for the materials and the necessary tools to do the job. I did it this way because I’d had this nagging urge to get back into cabinet making for a number of years and if the customer was agreeable, this job would allow me to set up a small cabinet making shop.

The customer was very obliging in that we worked out a deposit, progress payment arrangement that allowed me to purchase both the materials and the tools to build the cabinet in my garage and carport.

So off to Carbatec one morning with a friend and his truck in toe to pick up a table saw, bandsaw, thicknesses, jointer, dust extractor, thicknesser and a number of other bits and pieces.

We got everything home, unpacked and started setting up the table. The one I ended up purchasing was the Carba-Tec 10" Cabinet Saw w/ Sliding Table, model number MJ2325DS.

The prerequisites for purchasing the table saw were as follows, I needed something that would handle 2400 x 1200 sheets and be also able to cut solid timber. It needed to have a sliding table that would hold the weight of a sheet 2400 x 1200 x 19mm and have a fence that would allow square docking, allow accurate measuring and also be repeatable.

The rip fence needed to be able to be setup so that I could rip parallel to the blade, be accurate and like the docking fence, be repeatable.

The table saw also needed to be mobile and to stay accurate with that mobility. It also needed to fit into the budget that I’d set for myself.

The table saw comes in four boxes. The first holds the main table, motor assembly and top cabinet. It comes in the box upside down so that the bottom of the cabinet can be assembled to it. The saw is then tipped onto its base and in my case lifted onto a mobile base purchased from Carbatec. This gave me the mobility that I needed as the saw had to be moved from the garage to the carport each morning at the start of work to give me enough room to work, not ideal but with limited room it was the best option. The rest of the saw went together reasonably easy with the main struggle being the sliding table support. It has to line up with two slots and is on about a 30 degree angle from vertical and would have been a lot easier to fit if another pair of hands had been available.

The sliding table comes pre assembled and simply slides onto the end of the support, a stop at either end prohibits the table from sliding too far. Two extra cast iron table are then fitted to the right of the main table and then all that’s left to fit is the rip fence assembly, the docking fence assembly and the riving knife with saw guard.

After assembly, I checked the saw for accuracy. Neither the rip fence or docking fence was right but the little inaccuracies were not a problem. I was amazed at the amount of adjustment the saw has to obtain an accurate and constant cut. The rip fence has four Allen key bolts that when undone allow the fence to be moved so that it is parallel to the blade and so that it marries up with the measuring tape.

After setting the rip fence and checking it again, it cut perfectly and has not moved at all in two solid months of use.

Next the docking fence was checked and adjusted. It too has not moved in the last two months and as been on and off the sliding table numerous times. It goes back in exactly the same place and cross cuts just as well as the rip fence.

The saw comes with a very small diameter hose for the dust extraction at the saw guard. It goes from the guard to an inlet that attaches where the four inch outlet is at the base of the cabinet. Sorry Carbatec but it was absolutely useless. I traded the small hose for a 2 and a half inch hose and it worked much better but I felt it could be even better. The saw guard came down only so far onto the riving knife so I cut the slot where the fiving knife attaches to the saw body and made it about three inches longer. The riving knife now sits just below the top of the blade and with the guard attached, the blade is well covered and the dust extraction is excellent.

Next comes the actual use of the saw.

The blade that came with the table saw is your run of the mill, multi purpose saw that is great for ripping sheets and the three quarter inch timber I used for the job but it chipped the veneered board and solid timber too much to be of use as a docking blade. To that end I also purchased a fine cut off blade model 285-080-10M that as a rip blade was great for board, ok for solid timber if not pushed to fast and excellent as a docking blade. It gave a cross cut with minimal chipping cutting both the board and solid timber.

Roughing out the sheets for the cabinet worked out very easy with this table saw. After choosing the straightest edge of each sheet, I set the fence ten millimeters oversize and maneuvered one end of the sheet onto the edge of the table. With the mobile base locked in place, the sheets were ripped to size. I was abit worried as to how solid the fence would be when a full sheet was pushed against it but not once did it move once locked in place.

After all the material was rough cut and the solid timber panels glued together, I then had to cut all the pieces to finished size. The cabinet was made in modules for ease of transport and because of the limits on the space I had to work in so while a number of the lengths were the same for different parts of the cabinet, they had to be cut at different times and I can honestly say that after checking the first dozen or so cuts for size, the fences gave me the confidence to set them up and not worry whether they were cutting the same sizes each time.

Overall I am very happy with this purchase and with the other tools bought from Carbatec. All the tools have performed as I’d hoped they would and would recommend this table saw and the other tools to anyone just starting out or like myself getting back into cabinet making or general woodworking.

I hope this review, while being long can help someone else make a decision on purchasing a table saw as much as this forum and you folk helped me.

Regards to you all,
Ross.

fubar
26th July 2008, 09:53 PM
nice review and cabinet will keep in mind
is this the left tilting blade? version

fozz
27th July 2008, 01:24 AM
G'day fubar,

Its a right tilting saw, and thanks matey for the review of the review, much appreciated.

Harry72
3rd August 2008, 01:56 AM
You made enough of this cabinet to afford all them tools... I must be doing something wrong!

missionaryman
6th September 2008, 04:58 PM
Hi Ross,
Great review, I bought the same machine recently and have found dust extraction to be quite poor too, can you please clarify something about the mod you made to he hose?


Did you run a 2.5" hose from the blade guard to the existing 1.5" port on the main outlet or did you run it straight to the dust extractor
How did you lengthen the slot on the riving knife?

thanks.

fozz
6th September 2008, 11:39 PM
G'day mm,

Both are easy fixes. I cut the 1.5" port off the main 4" port, blocking that up by slipping the 4" pipe right up to the body of the saw. Next I added a reducer bought from carbatec to go from the new 2.5" hose down to the 1.5" fitting on the top of the saw guard. Both the 4" hose and the 2.5" hose then connect to the 4" extractor piping through a couple of Y junctions and a reducer from the 4" to the 2.5".

To lengthen the slot in the riving knife I used a cutting disc in the angle grinder and cut 2 slots the same width apart as the outside of the existing slot then it was just a matter of snapping off the excess with a pair of plyers.

Hope this helps you, it certainly made a big difference for me,

Ross.

missionaryman
7th September 2008, 09:13 AM
Thank you that's brilliant

fozz
7th September 2008, 10:15 AM
No problem, glad I was able to help :)

rod1949
8th September 2008, 01:28 PM
G’day folks,
The prerequisites for purchasing the table saw were as follows, I needed something that would handle 2400 x 1200 sheets and be also able to cut solid timber. It needed to have a sliding table that would hold the weight of a sheet 2400 x 1200 x 19mm and have a fence that would allow square docking, allow accurate measuring and also be repeatable.
Ross.

G'day Ross,
Yep I've got one of these units. The only comment I'd say is that whilst the sliding table rail can be moved to allow for a 1200mm in front of the blade, the small sliding table makes it a bit of a struggle to handle a 2400mm particularly if most of the 2400 is required and to keep presure down on the sheet to run past the saw blade. To assit and make it a one person operation I made up an additional free standing table (2400x600) with the roller bearing cups on it... works a treat.
http://www.carbatec.com.au/images/product/AN-16.jpg

fozz
10th September 2008, 09:56 AM
G'day Rod,

Sorry I havent replied, I've actually done similar with sanding bench and router table being used for infeed and outfeed for big heavy sheets.

By the way, heres a little more info on the saw, prompted by one of the forum members, you know who you are, thankyou very much :)

The saw retails for $1649.00 down here in Melbourne at the moment. It has a single belt that when tensioned properly works very well. Noise level is very good, when just spinning and not cutting, it sounds like a small high speed fan, hardly noticeable. The blade that comes with the machine when cutting creates abit of noise compared to the 80 tooth blade that I use most of the time.

Having gone from a Triton series 2000 saw bench fitted with a Black and Decker Industrial 9" saw that screamed whether it was cutting or not, this is a pleasure to use.

When looking at this upgrade, I compared it to a couple of similar machines, the Hare & Forbes ST-250 SAW BENCH and the Woodfast WTS-250RC sold by Carbatec. While they both had sliding tables, neither had the rip or crosscut capacity of the MJ2325DS. If I couldnt cut a 2400x1200 sheet then the first two just werent up to the job.

Anyway, hope this added info helps, and thank again CP:)

Ross.

Ramps
11th September 2008, 12:14 AM
Good effort Ross.

Too often I think I should tell people about this or that but procrastination inevitably leads to omission.

I am considering table saws at the moment and cutting full sheets is definitely a consideration. I've always considered these saws with a sliding table to be mickey mouse ... how would you balance a 8x4 sheet on that? and figured that I would save my money and put $100 aside to build some timber extension tables or go for the next model up ... the next much raved about TSC 10HB and whack some extensions on to that ... now I'm confused again:?. I also considered the fact that I'd like to be able to cut full sheets, I try to avoid sheet products where ever I can and prefer to use (recycled) solid timber ... but then I'm not trying to make a $ out of it!!

Thanks again Ross
cheers

Carry Pine
11th September 2008, 10:41 PM
[quote=fozz;804019]G'day Rod,

. It has a single belt that when tensioned properly works very well. Noise level is very good, when just spinning and not cutting, it sounds like a small high speed fan, hardly noticeable. The blade that comes with the machine when cutting creates abit of noise compared to the 80 tooth blade that I use most of the time.


Not trying to hijack the thread but some people make a big thing about some of these saws having 3 belts. Does it make that much of a difference?

Carry Pine

fozz
12th September 2008, 01:31 AM
Ramps,

I know what you mean about sheet products, I'm not particularly fond of them either. I bought this saw because whilst I plan to use mostly solid timber, it gives me the ability to cut sheet material, with the help of support tables as needed.

fozz
12th September 2008, 09:35 AM
Carry Pine,

I've never understood why a saw would need to have three belts instead of one either. All the industrial saws I've ever used over the years only had one drive belt. I guess theres a reason.

Ross.

Harry72
17th September 2008, 08:56 AM
Depends on the belt section, smaller multiple belts help you reduce the need for a bigger cross section of the belt while still transferring the same load amount.
Many common "A" series belts can support 3~4hp each, the small pulleys on the arbor of most cabinet saws are to small too support A and bigger sized belts, it can be done but it shortens the life of the belt considerably.
These saws that have 3 belts are smaller sectioned belts, 1 of these belts wont support 3~4hp under load, but an A series belt will.


I think the main reason they use these belts is to reduce the size of the arbor drive pulley, this would allow the arbor to raise higher too gain more cutting depth?

fozz
17th September 2008, 06:15 PM
Sounds like a very good explaination to me Harry :)

tranmere
22nd November 2008, 01:27 PM
G’day folks,
First off I’d like to thankyou all for a great forum with a huge amount of information. It has helped me immensely in making decisions on purchases of machinery over the last few months that have been a pleasure to use.
hands had been available.


I hope this review, while being long can help someone else make a decision on purchasing a table saw as much as this forum and you folk helped me.

Regards to you all,
Ross.

Hi,

I am a long term woodworker but up to now I have had to be satisfied with the Triton saw bench. (and their 9 and a quarter inch saw). Its been a lot of fun but I think it's time to retire it. I have been looking to buy a good quality replacement, and I am inclined to get something that is going to outlast me. This saw seems pretty good and your review is very encouraging.

I do have one question. This is a 15 amp saw. I don't have a 15 amp plug in my workshop. Can I get by with regular power and a change of plug on the saw? How importnat is it to get the 15 amp ower?

Tranmere

Shedhand
22nd November 2008, 01:54 PM
Hi,

I am a long term woodworker but up to now I have had to be satisfied with the Triton saw bench. (and their 9 and a quarter inch saw). Its been a lot of fun but I think it's time to retire it. I have been looking to buy a good quality replacement, and I am inclined to get something that is going to outlast me. This saw seems pretty good and your review is very encouraging.

I do have one question. This is a 15 amp saw. I don't have a 15 amp plug in my workshop. Can I get by with regular power and a change of plug on the saw? How importnat is it to get the 15 amp ower?

TranmereGet a sparky to install a 15 amp switched plug. You can plug a 10amp tool into 15 Amp outlets but you can't run a 15Amp machine from a 10 amp outlet. My sparky told me why but I forget except that it was important to have the 15 amp outlet for the 15 amp motor.
Cheers
Mike
PS: I used to live in a suburb of Hobart called Tranmere! That where you're from?

tranmere
23rd November 2008, 08:52 PM
I could wish I lived in Tranmere. I was there from 1995 to 1998 but I am in Canberra now. It was a terrific pace.

jatt
23rd November 2008, 09:57 PM
To backup Shedhands statement, here is the maths.

15 Amp is like a maximum of 15 x 240 = 3600 watts

10 Amp = 10 x 240 = 2400 watts.

Obviously the manufacturer recons that this saw will exceed 2400 watts, especially at startup, therefore the 15 Amp plug. The compliance plate should confirm this.

A useless piece of trivia for you. If your saw uses a DOL (Direct on Line starter) meaning no assistance from extra components like a soft starter etc... it will more than likely draw about 6 x the current at initial start up then it will when its actually running. This can be a real problem on larger motors, especially 3 phase.

Of course your wiring and circuit breaker will have to be able to cope with the extra current draw.

There are special circuit breakers available to suit motor starting appications, but I dont see the need in your instance.

You may get away with using the 10 amp, but I dont recommend it.:no:

Shedhand
23rd November 2008, 10:26 PM
A useless piece of trivia for you. If your saw uses a DOL (Direct on Line starter) meaning no assistance from extra components like a soft starter etc... it will more than likely draw about 6 x the current at initial start up then it will when its actually running.Hmmm. that's what happens when I start my Dust Collector. It has a single phase 13amp motor but a 10 amp plug (original) and when I start it it trips the circuit breaker and I have to restart while the armature is still spinning to get it running. Is there some gizmo i can fit to stop that happening?

jatt
24th November 2008, 10:40 PM
First of all I would get all the info u can off the compliance plate. From the 10 Amp plug one would have to hope (and assume) that it is not 13 Amps continuous.

Of course any other appliances hooked up to the same circuit at the same time arent going to help ur cause. Some of the stuff one sees, honestly it is really worth risking burning the place down?

Recon u will have to talk to a sparky. U dont wanna create a bigger problem for urself by doing something without asking him the questions first. Dont wanna overlook stuff like wiring size/condition.

Talking to a electric motor rewinder/repairer can be very helpful too.

A run start capacitor for the motor (if it doesnt have one already) would be something I would ask him about.

Not sure if u have the old ceramic type fuse holders or the newer hard wired circuit breakers in ur mains board. On the ceramic style a 10 amp HRC (High Rupture Current) fuse maybe a possibilty. From memory HRC fuses by nature can allow a short duration current higher than their rating to pass thru. From what u r saying your problem seems to be simply a startup issue. U maybe able to have something that is motor rated installed if u have the hard wired circuit breakers.

Not sure if u can get a something like a soft start for something as low as 10 amps.

At the end of the day u might have to bite the bullet and have a 15 Amp setup installed.

Good luck with it.

Shedhand
14th January 2009, 04:39 PM
To backup Shedhands statement, here is the maths.

15 Amp is like a maximum of 15 x 240 = 3600 watts

10 Amp = 10 x 240 = 2400 watts.

Obviously the manufacturer recons that this saw will exceed 2400 watts, especially at startup, therefore the 15 Amp plug. The compliance plate should confirm this.

A useless piece of trivia for you. If your saw uses a DOL (Direct on Line starter) meaning no assistance from extra components like a soft starter etc... it will more than likely draw about 6 x the current at initial start up then it will when its actually running. This can be a real problem on larger motors, especially 3 phase.

Of course your wiring and circuit breaker will have to be able to cope with the extra current draw.

There are special circuit breakers available to suit motor starting appications, but I dont see the need in your instance.

You may get away with using the 10 amp, but I dont recommend it.:no:An update. I moved house again recently (4 times in 12 months and no more :~) I now have a shed (the garage) to work in and I've set my table saw up at last. I was going to get a sparky to install a 15 amp circuit for the machine but a mate who know's about these things said that for the sort of cutting I do it is safe to run the 15 amp saw from a standard 10 amp power point provided its not longer than 2 or 3 minutes with a cooling off period of about the same. So I made a half metre 15 amp to 10 amp extension cord. I've used it a dozen times for ripping some tas oak and had no troubles. If I need to cut any large sheet materials I'll get it cut at one of the cabinetry shops around the place. I'm not recommending this but just letting you know it works for me. I feel the power cords for any undue heat constantly and 3 minutes of cutting causes little or no heat in them and thats about the time it takes me at the most to make any cuts i need.
Cheers
Mike