Slow page body loading

[Ron Dunn]

Since the last round of changes, pages have loaded very slowly. The page header appears quickly, down to the menu line which begins User CP, but the rest of the page can take several seconds to appear.

I had a look at the HTML, and I've got a feeling the cause is errors in code. Starting at the table which holds the Google stuff, there are many tags in the wrong order, missing tags, and other errors. This may mean that the renderer has to wait until the entire page is rendered before showing any.

Running the pages through a couple of validators showed quite a few more errors - 88, in fact, from the W3C validator.

It is possible that the slowness is caused by the response times from the Google ad server, but this should be compensated if well-formed HTML surrounds it.

[hitch]

Well I don't know problem cause or resolution but I am having the same experience.

In fact I find it quite frustrating and now restrict my time on the forum so as to lessen the stress.

I have so far put it down to the advertisements that must load with each page and of which I have read none and would respond to none anyway because of their disruption to my enjoyment to this site.

I have a powerful computer and highspeed connection so God only knows how others with lesser computer configurations cope !!!!.:~

[Ironwood]

Mine's very slow to load as well.

[ubeaut]

So what sort of slow are we talking about here. 5 minites, 1 minute, 30 seconds, 10 seconds, what?

I'm using Firefox and pretty well all pages are loading within a couple of seconds and many almost instantly.

IE is slower because it seems to dribble the page in from the top down, but longest wait for me on a hard refresh is under 10 seconds. Once cached the pages even on IE are loading at a very acceptable rate of a couple of seconds.

There are some issues with the pages which are slowly but surely being ironed out but this will take some time as there's a little more to do around here than just that. So far since the major stuff-up there has been very many hours of really hard background work done just to get on what we have here now.

For the moment I'm happy to sacrifice a few seconds of speed to keep the pages up and running.

Some things you can do:


Get Firefox (it's free) and use it. The difference is between it and IE is absolutely amazing, and everything runs properly and looks the way it should.
Do not log out. Each time you log out you clear the cookies which hold all the relevant details and have to start from scratch - There is nothing sinister or nasty in our cookies so it's safe to stay logged in all the time and ever so much faster. Your session stops as soon as you leave the forums the same as it would if you logged out but all your the cookies are preserved.
Be patient sometimes the server gets overcrowded and things slow down or there could be a backup or IP query, counter update, etc, running in the background, which will also slow things.

We share the server with cyclingforums.com and at this time of the year they can have many as 5,000 people on their site which can also put a strain on the server.

Most of these factors will only account for a few seconds time delay at their worst.

We really are trying to make it better, but like building a new road you have to allow for the inconvenience of the road works. You may not like it but it's a necessary evil, because without it you don't get a new upgraded road, just the same worn out, pot-holed track you've wanting fixed for ever.

Cheers - Neil :)

[Groggy]

Neil,

I have noticed a substantial improvement in speed over the last few weeks. General pages load faster than they ever have. I use Firefox and stay logged in.

What I have noticed when viewing non-cached pages is they seem to load in sections, then the content loads in four or five stages. Not a killer, but definitely slower than the "topical" pages kept in server cache (as you would expect).

Slow in this case is up to 5 secs at the very worst.

[DavidG]

5 to 10 secs

[Big Shed]

I can certainly vouch for the slow loading on IE7. Last week when I was having some problems with the WSIWYG editor not working I had occasion to use IE7 and immediately noticed how slow pages load using it vs Firefox.

I agree with Neils' suggestion, if you are not already using Firefox, start using it. You will be amazed at how quickly it works compared to IE7, and the number of add-ons, like NoScript, RealPlayer and Bookmark Synchroniser are amazing. Firefox and nearly all the add-ons are free for the downloading so there is no "entry fee". Try it, you'll like it.

[Barry_White]

I am using Firefox 3 and I have a Satellite 512/256 connection I never log out and my loading of the forum has never been as fast as it is now. Very satisfied.

[Ron Dunn]

Perhaps Firefox is more foregiving of some types of coding error ... but that shouldn't be an excuse for not fixing the problem. After all, there are still more IE users than Firefox users, and it doesn't make good sense to alienate such a large percentage of users.

[joe greiner]

The suggestion to NEVER log out escapes my comprehension. Does this mean never, ever; or just within a single session? On dialup, I disconnect when I need availability of the telephone, and IIRC VBulletin does an automatic logout after some period of inaction. If such a logout doesn't clear the cookies, the suggestion makes some sense with regard to page loading time.

But according to my very imperfect understanding of the software, the "You last visited" TimeStamp controls the "New Posts" search, as I enquired in a separate thread. How is this implemented if I NEVER log out? If one never logs out, and stays connected, the "New Posts" search could become huge; I think. I haven't tested this theory, nor have I searched for it at the VBulletin forum; yet.

Joe:?

[ubeaut]

The difference is:


Loggingout - where you physically click on the Log Out button - this clears all cookies from your computer meaning you have to start from scratch next time you log on.
Ending a session - where you leave the forums without hitting the Log Out button - this preserves all the cookies on your computer for faster log in and page refreshes etc.

At least that's my understanding of the way it works.


After all, there are still more IE users than Firefox users, and it doesn't make good sense to alienate such a large percentage of users.You're dead right on both accounts Ron and it should be unforgivable. But I would rather have, what was a reasonably spot-on forum with good code etc prior to the upgrade, up and running for now whilst the fixes go on (albeit slowly) in the background. I am aware of the problems with code but there was a hell of a lot that went west and was stuffed up because of the upgrade and version compatibility problems with hacks, that were previously OK..

Rather this way and a few seconds longer to load than shut the forums down completely for a week while all was repaired, tested, retested and retested and still comes out with a problem.

Unfortunately many of the problems are universal, which doesn't give the luxury of fixing it in the back ground. Added to this is the fact that I'm a woodcarver/turner/restorer/polish manufacturer, not a programmer and have muddle through most of the work myself in my spare time, :dunno: of which there isn't a lot. This is why I'm often on line well into the wee small hours, after answering the 20-30 daily emails and half as many pm's, finding lost passwords, usernames and anything else a member can lose. Sorting disputes, holding the hand of computer illiterates to guide them on how to submit their first post or thread, etc, etc, etc.

It ain't easy being green :club:- Think I'll go and eat worms, or take up drinkin' (a lot) :tequila: - I'm not crazy but it certainly would help :gaah:

Cheers - Neil :youcrazy:

[echnidna]

I'm not crazy but it certainly would help :gaah:

Cheers - Neil :youcrazy:

Does this mean we're getting a crazy forum too? :o

[joe greiner]

I'm not crazy but it certainly would help :gaah:

Cheers - Neil :youcrazy:

Sure would. It's helped me a lot.:D

Whatta you mean, "getting," Bob?

Joe

[ubeaut]

There's been a crazy forum for ages, you have to subscribe to it to get in though.:lbs: :toiletjump: :hpydans:
:yikes: :harhar:
:gotcha:

[Fuzzie]

I was having page load problems Friday and Saturday but across all websites, not just the forums. I ran the Bigpond speedtest (http://users.bigpond.net.au/speedtest/) which showed I was getting much slower throughput than my nominal plan speed and that the quality of service was less than 50%. I think a lot of HTTP packets were getting lost or damaged as hardly ANY page actually finished loading. I don't know if it was something to do with the Optus link getting repaired after last weeks fiasco but so far yesterday and today things are looking healthy and pages loading quickly.

BTW I also tried speedtest.net (http://www.speedtest.net/) but that test wouldn't run to completion on Saturday, it does now.

I would recommend anyone having problems to check one of the speedtest pages to see if your link to the internet is performing at the speed you are paying for.

[Ron Dunn]

Fuzzie, it is THIS site. Every other site loads at its normal time. I've pointed out the source of the problem in my first post.

The Admin has a note of the problem, and it will be corrected when time permits.

[Fuzzie]

Fuzzie, it is THIS site. Every other site loads at its normal time. I've pointed out the source of the problem in my first post.

The Admin has a note of the problem, and it will be corrected when time permits.

I think that was established by the earlier replies. I wasn't meaning to suggest the problems I was experiencing were the only problems, but it made matters a whole lot worse for me. I was just trying to add some information to the thread for anybody else who might like to check their link speeds as part of isolating any similar fault they may have.

I think Neil does a great job to keep this site up and running as a free service in his spare time. It's a long time since I had the enthusiasm to be up past midnight every night trying to fix software bugs. Believe me I know how bad a well intentioned it's just a quick fix small change can go wrong, let alone a major software or hardware upgrade.

I also know the empty pit of your stomach feeling you get when you realize you've just done rm -rf * in root :-

[DavidG]

when you realize you've just done rm -rf * in root :-:o:C Done similar.

Neil
Thanks for all that you are doing. I would much rather have a slow forum than NO forum.

Have you thought about delegating some of the work to the computer nerds that populate this board. Send them the code to fix and then check it your self before loading.???:;

[ubeaut]

Anyone struggling with speed issues please try the U-Beauts skin and let me know if you notice a difference......... Apart from the glaring white screen.

Have changed a couple of things, Still al lot more to go but.... For me it's loading almost instantly even on my crappiest connection. Even with IE the most I've had to wait for an uncached page is 4 seconds. I'm happy to sacrifice that much time out of my day. Especially when I recall waiting for 3, 4, and 5 or more minutes for some things to load up a few years ago.

[ubeaut]

Have you thought about delegating some of the work to the computer nerds that populate this board. Send them the code to fix and then check it your self before loading.???
Big problem is that most of it isn't code. The forums are one massive Database and most of it has to be done in situ. Taking a piece of code and giving it to someone doesn't really work. I have to give access to the entire database and am a bit reluctant to do that.

Plans are afoot.

Cheers - Neil :)

[DavidG]

Then maybe we need to keep you at the keyboard and have some slaves oops, members turn up at the factory to do the work you should be doing instead of looking after us.
This may mean you can render some members to ash . :blowup:

[hitch]

Anyone struggling with speed issues please try the U-Beauts skin and let me know if you notice a difference......... Apart from the glaring white screen.

Have changed a couple of things, Still al lot more to go but.... For me it's loading almost instantly even on my crappiest connection. Even with IE the most I've had to wait for an uncached page is 4 seconds. I'm happy to sacrifice that much time out of my day. Especially when I recall waiting for 3, 4, and 5 or more minutes for some things to load up a few years ago.

Neil, I am using the U-Beauts skin and appreciate the effort you are putting into this. Response times do seem to be considerably improved today,

Thanks.

[Sturdee]

Anyone struggling with speed issues please try the U-Beauts skin and let me know if you notice a difference......... Apart from the glaring white screen.


I've been using Ubeaut's skin on IE since the changes and I haven't had any problems in loading.

But I go down the list of New Posts and shift click on about 6 or 7 of the posts I want to read at the same time to force them to open in additional windows. By the time I've done that the first few posts are ready to read and I close the window when finished and move to the next one. Then I repeat etc.

Hence no delays.:D


Peter.

[BernieP]

G'Day Neil

Must admit to having been a bit frustrated lately, have just done as you suggested and switched to firefox, boy what a difference to everything, now just have to see if outlookexpress still works.

Thanks for all the effort and great forum.

Cheers
Bernie

[steven]

G'Day Neil

Must admit to having been a bit frustrated lately, have just done as you suggested and switched to firefox, boy what a difference to everything, now just have to see if outlookexpress still works.

Thanks for all the effort and great forum.

Cheers
Bernie

Pages like this one are have a left panel (table) that is part of the main thread body table. When using IE nested tables don't display until they're closed ( I think), a page like this could have upto 15 posts and 100+ images. If nothing is cached the total downloaded is close to 500KB.

I doubt there is any speed difference between IE and FF. In this case firefox would 'feel' faster because you can start reading a thread wit in a second or two, it will still take a similar time to download everything else on the page.

So this is not an actual slow down, but an apparent slow down to the user, because they are used to seeing things come in gradually.

PS - we'll have this fixed soon.

[Ironwood]

My page loading speed seems to have gotten a bit better. It's gone from around 30-40 seconds a couple of days ago, to about 10-15 seconds now, still not as quick as it used to be, but I can live with that.

Thanks for all the work you put in Neil and Co. :2tsup::2tsup:

[steven]

My page loading speed seems to have gotten a bit better. It's gone from around 30-40 seconds a couple of days ago, to about 10-15 seconds now, still not as quick as it used to be, but I can live with that.

Thanks for all the work you put in Neil and Co. :2tsup::2tsup:

Hi there

That is still quite slow. What speed internet connection do you have?

regards

[Ironwood]

Hi there

That is still quite slow. What speed internet connection do you have?

regards


G'day Steven, I'm not much of a computer guru, but I think it is satellite broadband, 512MB up & download. Does that make sense, if not I'll find out for sure from someone who will know what it is

[Fuzzie]

G'day Steven, I'm not much of a computer guru, but I think it is satellite broadband, 512MB up & download. Does that make sense, if not I'll find out for sure from someone who will know what it is

Ironwood you can go to the bigpond speedtest website http://users.bigpond.net.au/speedtest/ . When it loads click on the button in the top left and after check the results panel down the bottom. The download speed will show the actual speed your up and down links are running at. For a variety of reasons the actual speed you see may vary from the plan you are signed up for.

[Ironwood]

Ironwood you can go to the bigpond speedtest website http://users.bigpond.net.au/speedtest/ . When it loads click on the button in the top left and after check the results panel down the bottom. The download speed will show the actual speed your up and down links are running at. For a variety of reasons the actual speed you see may vary from the plan you are signed up for.

Thanks Fuzzie, just gave it a go, it's telling me 512kb's download, 150 kb's upload

[bricks]

My broadband laptop is not loading pages or loading pages in 10/15 minutes? Some days, like today, i am getting ok service within 2- 3 minutes.
It also changes from page to page ie I can load page 1 of this thread but not page 2, I can get into forum info threads but not musical instruments.???????

I am downloading fire fox, will see if that helps.

[bricks]

Clicked out of forums after last post here,
Clicked on download firefox on their website,
Downloaded fire fox,
Installed on my computer,
Opened fire fox, typed woodies address,
Logged on to forums,
opened this post,
now am replying to this post,

Check the time of my last post htat will give you an Idea of how fast my computer speeds are!!!!

Thanks for the advice on fire fox people.

bricks

[ubeaut]

Firefox is a definite a big help. But bare in mind, it isn't always this site that's the problem. Often it's your own server. Sometimes you just need to turn off your modem and reboot it. Sometimes it's server overload from too many people all trying to access at the same time.

We often have as many as 400 or more trying to log on in the same minute this isn't an uncommon occurrence. We can often have hundreds downloading and uploading pics at the same time and loading pages willy-nilly all over the place with many loading multiple pages which also will have a bearing on speeds. It's now almost 1:00am and there are 845 people on line all doing just that and as an exercise I am on line via my old 56K modem and still loading pages at around 30 seconds per page.

Anyone on broadband who has to wait 5 minutes or more has a major problem and should reboot their modem for starters and if still loading at those speeds you should contact your service provider as there is a definite problem.

There is a slow time around 11:30 am when the system is backed up and again at 12 midnight when reminder emails and other admin stuff is done but these would very rarely account for speeds as slow as that. Even the old 56k modems should load faster then a couple of minutes.

Cheers - Neil :)

[Fuzzie]

I upgraded my Firefox from version 2 to 3 last week. Initially I had some issues with page loading and after a bit of a search I came across a comment that there were problems with upgrading over the top of version 2. I uninstalled firefox completely and deleted the program files/firefox directory then did a fresh install of version 3.

I no longer have any pages that lock up entirely while loading (gmail with chat enabled was the worst culprit for me) and everything seems to be working fine (other than one or two plugins that are not compatible).

I'm not entirely sure but I have an impression forum pages a loading a little slower under 3 than 2.

[Fuzzie]

BTW if you intend to uninstall Firefox be cautious and backup your bookmarks etc first. The uninstall didn't delete any personal data, however its probably sensible to use mozbackup or the foxmarks plugin just in case.