Leveling wall studs.... I'm going nuts.

[Gooner]

I have been struggling for a while now trying to level a wall that I will be tiling from floor to ceiling. The old wall was only partially tiled, but now I am tiling the entire room with a "glossy" bathroom tile. With this type of tile I believe that if the wall is not perfectly leveled, it may show.

I ripped out the old wall and plaster and now have the studs exposed. I have started by leveling (using a carpenter's plumb) the corner studs and packing the wall with masonite strips were required. I have been careful to pack it properly and chisel down the packing strips so I have a stud that is level to within 1-2mm along a 2 meter length.

Unfortunately, the studs in between the corner studs are not only way out of level, (up to 12mm over a 2 meter distance) but also unaligned, such that if I run a string from one corner stud to the other, I can see that the studs in the middle can stick way out on the bottom, but not touch the string on the top.

My question is, is there an easier method that people use to level walls? Are there any special tools to make life easier? I am having quite a hard time of it and it is taking a very long time. Even when I think I have made good progress, I then grab a long straight piece of wood and lay it against the wall diagonally from one corner to the other and notice there is still a stud sticking out about 5mm!

I'm going nuts.

Any advice?
What kind of surface irregularity can I get away with such that I can compensate with tile adhesive? 1-3mm?

Thanks.

[martrix]

Ive never packed/leveled out studs on a wall before but I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard. You need to level one plane first. I would say that you get all of the studs on the vertical plane (up and down:rolleyes:) level and straight first. Once this is done you could then just run a straight edge horizontally and pack out the entire length of each stud as required.

[Claw Hama]

I would put in new corner studs (nail to existing studs) that sit just prowd of all old wall studs then run a string line across the top and bottom of the wall from corner stud to corner stud. Install new studs that are trued into string lines, once again nailed to old studs. Now you have a whole wall of new flat straight studs. you may still have to pack the edge/corner old studs to nail or screw tight into the corner.
Hope this all makes sense. Good luck.

[Gooner]

Quick reponses...

Claw, yeah this is the approach I was thinking of taking. It would mean that I would have to pack the middle studs up to 15mm in places. Will have to pack both corners evenly to make sure I maintain the squareness of the room.

I think this is the only solution, but I ma not happy with having a wall this is so heavily packed! I will have to make sure the villaboard is secured properly.

[Claw Hama]

Gooner, nail the new studs to the side of the old studs so the new stud face is flat across the wall and you don't have to pack anything except the two corners.

[Dirty Doogie]

I second Claw's idea - some nice straight 70 x 45 pine!

[Claw Hama]

That's it.

[Chipman]

New wall

Method 1

Use a string line to get your top and bottom plates straight
Make sure the top plate is vertically above the bottom plate with a plumb line (or long level)
If you have all the bows in the studs the same way, preferably inwards, use a straight edge and mark vertically down the stud and use an electric plane to take it down to the line then put in your noggins. Use string lines across all the studs to check your progress.

Method 2
Carpenters will nearly cut a stud through on an angle and pull it straight and then nail a scrap of stud across the join. Once again, make sure all the studs have the bow the sam way... preferrably inwards

Existing wall

Method 1
Straightening an existing wall in a renovation with lining on the other side.
by building a new wall inside the existing wall.

Cut a notch the width of a new stud through the noggons next to the existing corner studs to a depth of about 70 mm (if existing studs are 100mm typical of older houses with hardwood studs) 60 mm if 90mm studs
Alternatively you may notch the nogons less and do a matching notch in your new studs (eg 35/40mm in each)

Screw new studs next to your existing studs making sure newones are vertical are vertical. Frun string lines between these two new corner studs and install nogins directly onto the existing plates between the existing studs and makes sure there are inline with your strings. Screwing avoids damaging the plaster on the otherside of the wall from hammering (A nail gun would be ok too) Remember with old hardwood studs you will probably have to drill a pilot hole for the screw!

Notch all the noggins in between and install your new studs (you don't have to do it next to existing studs and helps you avoid hitting nails with your saw). Run a string line along your nogin line and true up your new studs by pushing them into line and screwing/nailing them to the existing studs/noggins. Next install your new noggins.

Finally pack out your old corner studs to be inline with your new wall. I usually cut a strip of stud off and use an electric plane to get it to the correct size/slope. Generally you wont need to pack out your old plates but you can do it if you want to.

I did my bathroom this way. I tried packing out the studs but it was driving me nuts too and I just could never get it truly flat.

Method 2
I believe that you can buy special metal strips/battens that you could cut and screw to the edges of your existing frame to get it flat and true and then screw your new lining to the metal (have seen it done with ceilings)
Someone else may be able to give you more info about this method.

Good luck
Chipman

[Gooner]

Not a bad idea.. but don't like the idea of installing villaboard such that the edges in the corner have no support behind them.

For now I have nailed up some extra packing. Perhaps I will consider nailing new studs to the side of the middle studs instead of packing them up 5-15mm.

Anyone know a reasonable wall even-ness tolerance to try to achieve? E.g. 2-3mm unevenness across 2 meters?

[Gooner]

Thanks for the detail response Chipman...

You method is certainly more work than I anticipated and I will try and avoid this method unless absolutely necessary! :)

It is still driving me nuts, but I may take a rest, have a beer, and tackle it again tomorrow.

Why are things always harder than anticipated?

(I wonder how mcuh it would cost to get a carpenter in to level it up..... hmmmmm)

[Claw Hama]

With method 2 you still have to get your studs pretty straight or you will still get waves in your metal furring chanels which means you still get waves in your wall.

[Chipman]

If you plates are straight and plumb, just nail new studs beside the ones that bow in and punch any nails and plane down the ones that bow out.


If the the wall is in bad condition all over, Apply Claw's idea.

Do what I said in the corners by nailing in new studs besides the existing ones so that they are plumb and nail strips on the old studs to get them up to the same level as the new ones.

Run a string line between them and work out how much you will have to notch out of each stud to get a clearance of 35mm back from the string so you can nail 70 x 35 on its flat across the studs. Do this at the bottom, top and next to the existing noggons. If you happen to overdo it, you can just pack it out again on the stud. Get some studs and cut them up and nail them as vertical noggons between the rails you installed. Construction adhesive can help too.

Ultimately it depends how bad your wall is.

(My wall was really bad and I was installing heavy tiles and wanted a stronger wall and having a nice flat wall made tiling a breeze)

Chipman:)