Termites or Rot???

[DanP]

I have a pergola built in oregon that the past owner obviously didn't paint till the beams had started to crack, but one of the beams has just about turned to powder and several others are not looking too healty. I live an an area with high numbers of termites. Questions are:

1. Is oregon susceptible to termites?

2. Looking at the pics (sorry about the quality), do you think I might have termites or rot?

Base of post. rest of post is fine. Just the bottom 10 inches is stuffed.

Dan.

[DanP]

The damage goes right through the beam for about half its height and along its entire length of about 20 ft.

[DanP]

Same beam other end. Really bad pic sorry.

[craigb]

Can't really tell from your piccies, sorry.

The easiest way to tell if the damage was done by termites is to check for the 'mud' trails that the little buggers leave behind.

Hope thats some help.

[silentC]

1. Is oregon susceptible to termites?

Yes it is. I had a shed with an oregon frame and they did attack it. There are a few species of termites though: some like hardwood, some like softwood and I think their diets are mutually exclusive. Best thing to do is get an inspection done and find out which ones you have active in your area.

It doesn't look like termite damage but it's fairly easy to tell. If it is, the inside of the beam will have tunnels gouged out of it. Termites don't like open air, so they wont eat the outside of the timber. This is why they're hard to detect because they eat the timber from the inside out, leaving a thin shell that looks normal from the outside.

Oregon is also susceptible to rot, which might be what you have there.

[DanP]

Here's a slightly better pic. I think I'll have to get it inspected though. This pergola joins the house and I would prefer to rip down the pergola than have them get into the house.

Dan

[silentC]

Now that looks like termite damage but it might not be.

If you've got active termites in the area I'd recommend you get an inspection at least once a year. We get ours inspected every 6 months. Our place has been hit - fortunately no structural damage to the main part of the house. There was a flat underneath which we completely ripped out because the little buggers were using it as a highway up into the house. Now I've got my workshop there, so every story has a good ending.

[texas]

The last picture doesn't look like termites to me. I had a beam similarly affected and the pest inspector told me it was a borer of some sort (I had though it was rot). Termite damage will generally leave you with paper-like remnants of wood with channels or vein like grooves that run along the direction of the grain.

[ozwinner]

Originally posted by silentC
Now that looks like termite damage but it might not be.

There was a flat underneath which we completely ripped out because the little buggers were using it as a highway up into the house. Now I've got my workshop there, so every story has a good ending.

Is that the story that you told the missus..........good one.


:D :D :D

[silentC]

They'll believe anything you dish up, as long as it sounds plausible :D :D :D

We were going to convert the single car garage next to the workshop into a family room but I convinced her that it would be cheaper to go up a storey, what with all the drainage and weatherproofing problems plus lining the walls and the ceiling and tiling the floor etc. Now my workshop is twice as big as it was before :D

[glenn k]

From that last pic it is certainly rotten. Termites eat tunnels, do a cross grain cut and see if there holes. It may have termites aswell. If you are going to get someone to spray for termites watch what they use chlordane? think thats how you spell it was baned ~15 years ago in the US an in Australia shortly after but they were allowed to use what they had stockpilled which was all they had in the US before hand ( only Aus & India and other 3rd World countries used it). I think its all gone now but I have heard of houses that have chlorinated hydrocarbon levels well above World Health Organisations safe levels after 3 spays. The cure is to build a new house or wait 20 years.
Some people trap termites bait them and let them go home, this kills the nest rather than the few that get sprayed. One goverment employee has or had an experimental permit to bait termites via a 1" cube of poisoned pine, he said he had never seen them eat more than 1/2 before the nest is dead then you take it to the next site. I suspect that this doen't use enough product so may never be used.
Sorry I just hate what chemical companies do to the planet to earn money.

[DanP]

Glenn,

I think it is rot. The tops of the beams are not painted and the rotten part is all in the top half of the beam. Also, I have ripped the beam to bits and can't find a single ant. I'm hoping anyway. Either way the pergola has to go but i'm hoping it's not ants as they may be into the house.

Dan

[bitingmidge]

Probably trying to diagnose damage like this over the internet is rot!!!:D

Oregon is about as durable in our climate as an ice cream, which coincidentally is what termites think it is!

Last year I used some left over 25 x 50 oregon battens (painted) as stakes for profiles on some house extensions, and in three weeks the pieces underground had been chewed completely away, and the inside bits for about 300mm up them as well.

I reckon that if there were termites, you'd see 'em!

Cheers,

P

[Gumby]

Hi Dan. I had a problem with termites in the carprt posts. Yours looks more like rot to me and if it was termites, you'd see them a soon as you cut the post. Also, as has been said, they eat from the inside. I didnt realise they were in mine until the caroprt got slowly lower. The post went straight into the concrete and they were eating it from the bottom. I solved that by putting in a new post on a styrup. They hate sunlight so if the post isnt directly in the ground it will be fine. Termiites absolutely love oregon by the way. It's a gormet meal for them. Also Oregon wont stand being in the weather so you may want to use treated pine instead - which termites definitely don't like !

[glenn k]

Also termites come up from the ground so the damage would be at the bottom.

[DanP]

Thanks guys. SWMBO has her heart set on one of those vergola things. Anyone have any idea of the $$$'s one of these are. I'm thinking big bucks but don't really know.

Dan

[Gumby]

vergola ??

[Marc]

Oregon is what one uses to attract termites when building a termite trap or leave samples to see if there are termites active around. If you had an Oregon pergola and she is still standing after two years, mate you clearly have no termites in the vicinity, unless someone soaked the ground around the post with a chemical barrier. That timber post must be rotten for sure.

If you are concerned about termites, get a pest inspection first, and then buy a termite trap from your nursery (some 20 or 30 bucks) Ask your friendly pest guy to show you how to set it up, don’t forget to fill in the little plastic tube with toilet paper (termites lolly), find a spot and wait. Be patient it may take 6 month or a year. When the Oregon pieces, the toilet paper and the rest of the good stuff is oozing termites you call you inspector who for a small fee will dust arsenic on the little buggers. They will carry the arsenic in the nest up to the queen and then kaput! no more termites.

[bitingmidge]

....but that doesn't mean that the damage is manifested at the bottom,

The little beasties usually keep tunnelling as far up as they can go. They often go straight up wall cavities to those yummie pine trusses and then build a bit of a hang-out for themselves to use as a base while they get into the rest of the place, starting with the tastiest timbers.....in really bad infestations it is possible to hear them munching away at night......quite fascinating if the house doesn't belong to you....

My pergola posts (100x100 oregon) went decidedly spiral about 600 above the ground, when the paint decided it wasn't strong enough to hold up the structure above, but by the time the damage was evident, they had well and truly got stuck into the beams as well. The bottoms were completely intact, the only sign of entry was a small mud tunnel built into the corner of the steel stirrups.

Be afraid.....

P

[bitingmidge]

...but there is a (quite large) cost!

Probably about exactly more dollars per square metre of any form of roofing, but they are a lot easier than draping a tarp over the pergola on the rainy days.

P

[ozwinner]

Originally posted by Gumby
I didnt realise they were in mine until the caroprt got slowly lower.

Did you think you were getting taller Gumby................:D :D :D
:D :D :D :D :D

[arose62]

I'm sure I've seen vergolas as very $$$, but check for yourself.

http://www.vergola.com.au/contact.htm

Cheers,
Andrew

[Gumby]

Originally posted by ozwinner
Did you think you were getting taller Gumby................:D :D :D
:D :D :D :D :D


Yeah, I couldn't figure out why the water which used to flow nicely down to the pipe gradually started to pool in the spout. I thought the spout had moved a bit . The last thing I checked was the post and that was only after I saw it starting to lean against the retaining wall and I nearly poked my finger through it. :)