Shellac V's BeesWax

[adammc]

Hi folks,

I am looking to create some baby safe / eco safe wooden toys and am unsure about what finish to use.

My father in law has beehives in the backyard so I figured it was probably the most 'enviro' thing to use....

However I have heard all this talk about shellac but dont know enough about it. Is there any chemicals used in the production? Do you have to mix it with chemicals to apply?

What would be the pros / cons of each?

Or.... Is there a natural (non toxic) Oil I could rub into the toys?
Many thanks in advance :)

[TomH]

There is another similar post about toys at the moment.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=70759

There is also plenty of information on shellac if you do a search. Shellac is generally mixed with methylated spirits. I would assume beeswax is processed as well before it makes it into the tin.

Not sure about oil finishes on childrens toys. I would imagine olive oil is harmless (given we eat it and also they recommend it for baby massage), but whether it has the durability to withstand the mouths of children is questionable.

Cheers,

Tom

[Big Shed]

My reservation with beeswax is that although relatively harmless it is a very soft, at times sticky, wax finish and would pick up lots of dirt and germs. It would be relatively hard to clean.

[jerryc]

Shellac would be one of the safest finishes to use. It is no more than the secretions of a beetle which it uses to protect it's eggs from a rain forest environment. It has been used in the pharmacutical industry for years to coat tablets for ingestion. The only additive used when applying it as a finish is usually meth which is totally evaporated.

Jerry

War does not decide who is right. War only decides who is left

[Bob38S]

My reservation with beeswax is that although relatively harmless it is a very soft, at times sticky, wax finish and would pick up lots of dirt and germs. It would be relatively hard to clean.

Agree with the above especially in summer as the wax will always soften and possibly leach out should the toy be in the sun.

[astrid]

My reservation with beeswax is that although relatively harmless it is a very soft, at times sticky, wax finish and would pick up lots of dirt and germs. It would be relatively hard to clean.

My reservation would be that pure beeswax tastes and smells of honey:U
Kid is bound to lick it off.:D
Jokes aside, shellac is a harmless natural substance (I've heard that its used to coat pills)
The meths used to cut it will flash off and residue would be soooo small.
After a sealer coat of shellac, use your wax BUT if its thinned with turps???
I'd use the shellac alone or parafin oil.The edible kind.
someone here has said that olive oil will go rancid, dont know it this is true,
suspect the french and italians, spanish and greeks did so.:cool:

Astrid

[ubeaut]

Olive oil can become quite toxic. Most oils and waxes will attract dirt and germs. Shellac is the safest by far as has already been stated. It is used in all sorts of food coatings including lollies, fruit and pills.

If you wish you can coat the shellac it with a hard wax (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/trad.html) but would avoid beeswax, again for the reason of softness, dirt germs, etc.

Shellac Flakes (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/flakes.html#sf1) or French Polish (for honey colour), White Shellac (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/dewaxed.html) (for no colour) Non Toxic Water Dye (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/dye.html) (for colouring under Shellac)

Cheers - Neil :U

[adammc]

Hi guys,

Thank you all for the great info. Seems that shellac is definatly the preferred method!
So am I right in assuming that the metho evaporated leaving no trace on the toys?

I have read of people using Tung Oil, Flaxseed Oil & Walnut Oil. Has anyone had any experience with these? Could these be an option?

[ubeaut]

The metho evaporates completely leaving a 100% inert, non toxic, child safe, food safe, environmentally sound, 100% natural, greenie approved, organic finish, that's a lot more germ free and less toxic than even the cleanest child.

As for the oils. All will suck dirt into the timber the same as wax will and the toys will look terrible within hours of their first use. Depending on the timber used they could also go black because of the reaction between tannin in the timber and sweat, dribble and a whole heap of other things kids get on their hands, put in their mouth etc. Tung oil's fine for floors and furniture etc but really isn't good for toys.

Cheers - Neil.

[adammc]

Thanks for the clarification Ubeaut :)

Before I totally committ to Shellac... I have also heard mentions of people using waxes like food grade parrafin wax, what are your thoughts?

[ubeaut]

Most oils and waxes will attract dirt and germs.Waste of time because ALL waxes on the raw timber will attract dirt and the toys will look absolutely terrible within hours. Even carnauba wax which is the hardest of all waxes won't be all that good because all have to be softened with turpentine or white spirits or they can't be applied. Our Traditional Wax (http://www.ubeaut.com.au/trad.html) is one of the hardest and best waxes available but I would never recommend it for use on raw timber that was going to be handled by children, for the reasons stated above. Different kettle of fish applying it over a base coat/s of shellac. Using anything much else (other then maybe a good lacquer or polyurethane) is a waste of time in my opinion.

Toys need a surface coating to protect the timber and the child. Most surface coatings are non toxic when dry. For you.... the best, easiest and quickest to use would be shellac. Anything else will most likely end up being a rod for your back.

Cheers

[Sawdust Maker]

You ask what the most "baby safe / eco safe" toys would be.
As I said in the other thread, leave them bare, blocks don't need a finish. I've two boys, a 10yo and a 5yo, both have played with the same blocks made about 8 years ago. The blocks are unfinished (made from radiata), except for sanding. The couple of blocks which look worse for wear are those which were left outside in the rain and sun for a while.
Both boys have been to childcare and to preschool, interesting thing, their blocks are also unfinished
IMHO timber won't hold germs, bacteria etc if it is dry, much the same as a chopping board. I believe that bare timber is a natural germicide and bactericide(?)
I agree with Neil, if you have to finish it with anything, stay away from wax and oils. They will only get very gunky.
Either leave bare or follow Neil's suggestion and use shellac. BTW he does know what he's on about, he's the guru

[adammc]

Hi Ubeaut,

Which Shellac product would suit me best?
http://www.ubeaut.com.au/ubhome.htm

[ubeaut]

White Shellac (http://ubeaut.com.au/dewaxed.html) mixed at least 50/50 with metho and maybe up to 60 or even 70% metho. Try it out and see.

Also have to agree with Sawdust maker re the raw timber. But preferably only with pine (pinus radiata) that has been finely sanded. Many other timbers have tehir own inherant problems and are best finished with a surface coating as mentioned above.

Cheers

[adammc]

Thanks Ubeaut. I will give it a go :)

[adammc]

You ask what the most "baby safe / eco safe" toys would be. Either leave bare or follow Neil's suggestion and use shellac.

I'll make 2 set of blocks; One just very finely sanded the other finished with white shellac and get my daughter to test em out for a few weeks :2tsup:

[Sawdust Maker]

We'll expect a report of your conclusions at the end of the process:o
a taste test report from your daughter is also , I think, necessary :D

btw make sure that they aren't left on the lawn, the victa causes no end of damage to the nicely sanded blocks