No nail decking- Merbau.... Any reviews?

[raff]

Gday,

Just started to build a 42sqm deck, only at the post/footings stage. Thinking ahead- im using 90mm merbau and considering whether to use stainless nails or try the non nail systems available.

Just after any feedback and opinions on the no nail products. The two I have seen, one uses a biscuit joiner and plastic type biscuit with screw and the other is a stainless claw which is driven into the timber and then screwed to deck with a screw. Same concept, two different products.

My concern with the plastic product is durablity, how long will it last and will it flex?

My concern with the steel claw is would driving the claw in the the side of the merbau promote splitting?

I like the look of a nail free deck but are these products going to give me 10+ years of trouble free use?

After opinions from owners who have use the said systems or deck builders who could recommend the best way to lay the merbau.

Also any recommendations for using 'liquid nails decking' in addition the nails or non nail system?

Cheers

Raff :U

[Williamstown]

Probably doesn't help but Im going with SS screws.

[raff]

Probably doesn't help but Im going with SS screws.

All helpful and relative thanks.

If I use SS nails I will use the twist type, I have considered screws but I think they leave to much of an 'imprint' on the timber.

Operater preference I guess but im interested in your reasoning.

Cheers

Raff

[Williamstown]

I'm not sure if youve lifted decking before; however its very difficult once those nails have been in place for soem time. I like the flexability of being able to get them up should I ever need too.

[pharmaboy2]

hi - i've used the dek tite version, which sound like the ss ones - they have a spike each side - the spike is driven into the timber, using a small pipe, then the vertical part is nailed into the side of the joist.

mine are gal. i used tallowood air dried, and that was a mistake, as the gaps have got wider as its dried. You MUST have kiln dried timber (most but not all merbaus is kiln dried) so the shrinkage is taken out.

Installation takes a Looooooooooooo- ng time - budget 3times normal - a second person is also mandatory to stop the bouncing when you bang into the spike.

As to screws, the square drive 8 guage have a very small head - almost like a bullet head imo for size.

finally, the connectors could really do with been painted before installation - obviously black would be the prefferred colour.

[mcolen]

Very interested to see responses. I've been thinking about using these ones

http://www.deck.com.au/

Any feedback?

[Williamstown]

FYI
Been having a problem sourcing the SS screws. Robot are the only company I have found that can get them (9g x 53) in at $280 for 1000. Bunnings have packs of 350 marine grade decking 7g x 50mm screws for $42, which seems like the best option at the moment.

[pharmaboy2]

Very interested to see responses. I've been thinking about using these ones

http://www.deck.com.au/

Any feedback?

thats exactly the ones I used, but mine were gal - as noted, dont do it on timber that will shrink a little further as the gaps end up quite a bit wider than std already - shrinkage makes it worse.

if you want them, go round as many bunnings stores as you can and look for a yellow bucket in amongst the pryda straps etc - they all used to stock them, but at $120 a bucket they didnt sell, so they cleared them - my local still has a bucket for $14!!!!


Williamstown - check ebay - I buy my ss screws off a seller called "boltsbythebag" - he has heaps of sq drive scheaper than bunnings etc - i just call them up, pay over the phone and the stuff turns up the next day (they also have nice compact heads)

[raff]

The tiger claw one I have seen have a similar concept to the fastners above......
http://www.deckfastener.com/products_tc4.asp#requirements

It does mention not to use where expansion/contraction exceeds ± 1/16" in width. I cant find expansion specs on Merbau in a Melbourne climate although im sure all timber after an amount of time will have some expansion and contraction and thus loosen the 'claw'.

Perhaps the second type may be more forgiving to expansion movement as they are 'slotted' into a biscuit joint and more of the timber is connected to the fastner.

The other......

http://www.thedeckking.com.au/index.php?page=concealed-fixings

Obviously they are not hugely popular in the market yet, due no actual feedback on the above products. I wonder is this because it is a newish concept or because they are not worth the time and money!?

[StevePole]

I had to search for "bolts-by-the-bag" and make sure that "Search title and description" was selected.

What sort of cost is involved with the hidden Deck-Tite type?

[Buggermedumplings]

FYI
Been having a problem sourcing the SS screws. Robot are the only company I have found that can get them (9g x 53) in at $280 for 1000. Bunnings have packs of 350 marine grade decking 7g x 50mm screws for $42, which seems like the best option at the moment.

Under advise from a lot of forum members, I used 10g square drive type-17 SS screws (Macsim) and couldn't be happier. Looks attractive, did not snap any (2500 screwed down) and got them for $150 per 1000.

[UteMad]

Jees just thought i would weigh in...

I love the debate of screws versus nails its such a new topic .......

Most will know which why i swing by now..

I had to go back to a job we did 6 weeks ago to replace a few boards after the owners sparky drilled lights through the decking that weren't meant to be there.. I know which fixing i was glad to have used and i know which one holds the boards down better too

By the way looked at a coomercial deck the other day with 65mm x 3.15 stainless titadecks which is bigger than most on here would consider and they are popping after 6-8 years and they are into hardwood joists and still popping

Nuf said

Hope you have success which ever you use


Cheers utemad

[UteMad]

FYI
Been having a problem sourcing the SS screws. Robot are the only company I have found that can get them (9g x 53) in at $280 for 1000. Bunnings have packs of 350 marine grade decking 7g x 50mm screws for $42, which seems like the best option at the moment.


Pretty sure Miami Stainless www.miamistainless.com (http://www.miamistainless.com)
will supply you 10G 50mm type 17 stainless square drive screws mailed to your door .. can't guarantee them being the cheapest but definately easy..

or www.tradeproducts.com.au (http://www.tradeproducts.com.au)

we get bombarded with people wanting to sell us screws etc .. these are 2 that post anywhere

stay away from 7G 8G and 8-10G get only straight out 10gauge for best results.. Macsim make a good one and Zenith make one you can get from bunnies

cheers utemad



A good retail price would be $150 - $165 per 1000

[UteMad]

Very curious how does one remove a board in the middle of a deck like me last week with Stealth fittings?????

How do boards move freely when the customer neglects the coating on the deck and the boards swell in the rain?????

Cheers utemad

[pharmaboy2]

Utemad, pretty much the removing the board shouldnt be necesssary, as its held about 1.5mm above the surface of the joist, allowing drying out to occure regularly. Even so if you had to remove the length for some other reason, you'd have to cut the fixing with a grinder at the edge of the board down one side - maybe take as long as 2 minutes a board!

Obviously you cant reattach it the same way, but one of the points is that this sort of maintenance on a dying deck happens at the 20 yr mark rather than the 12 yr mark! ;)

As to swelling, you can rest assured that softened timber will push further onto the fittings - no downside to that.

[UteMad]

Utemad, pretty much the removing the board shouldnt be necesssary, as its held about 1.5mm above the surface of the joist, allowing drying out to occure regularly. Even so if you had to remove the length for some other reason, you'd have to cut the fixing with a grinder at the edge of the board down one side - maybe take as long as 2 minutes a board!

Obviously you cant reattach it the same way, but one of the points is that this sort of maintenance on a dying deck happens at the 20 yr mark rather than the 12 yr mark! ;)

As to swelling, you can rest assured that softened timber will push further onto the fittings - no downside to that.


Do you find this to be a marketable item??
In sydney you wouldn't move it unless it was in the architects specs as a must do otherwise forget it.. Too many shonks in Sydney using ND's or duofast coil guns


cheers utemad

[Hippety Hop]

I thought about getting one of those merbau boards to make "rosewood" uke fretboards & bridges :no: