Ebay forcing sellers to use PayPal.

[clubbyr8]

Anyone else get an email from Ebay informing sellers of changes to payment methods?

[flynnsart]

No, but read about it on the site. Bet they wouldnt have done this if they hadnt of bought paypal. I think it stinks. I much prefer direct deposit and I am only a buyer. I bet the sellers will be cheesed off with the extra cost.

Donna

[echnidna]

Nope I'd prefer to sell with paypal.
You don't have to serach through deposits trying to find one that the purchaser hasn't identified themself adequately on.

However I suspect ebay may be in breach of the trade practises act if they demand paypal be used.

So if you're not happy with ebay write a lettter to the ACCC and see what happens.

[petersemple]

My first thought is that the US ebay site often has different conditions to the AU one. Wonder if it might be worthwhile looking more at listings on that site.

Peter

[Gra]

I think Bob has it there. It is called third line forcing in this country and is illegal (guess who just did their compliance training at work:U)

What they can do is make it hard for you to use other means:roll:

[echnidna]

Just had a look and its coming.

Paypal only or pick up on collection.
That disenfranchises anyone without a Visa/Mastercard who cannot personally pickup their goods.

Good, I prefer to buy with ebay,
Some of the dingaling merchants who have refused to accept Paypal in the past now have to lift their game, or get out.

(I still think it may be a breach of the TP Act)

[petersemple]

The thing that gets me (and which might make it illegal) is that the method that is being forced on sellers is one that charges a fee to the seller, said fee being paid to an ebay subsidiary, so really it is a covert way for ebay to extract more in fees from the sellers.

peter

[Waldo]

PayPal is great if you've bought overseas. The purchases I've made within Aus the seller has been happy to accept b/deposit or across the bank counter.

If any Aussie seller has PayPal or pickup only, ask him/her the question, "Will you post and can I pay by d/deposit?" I'd been watching some TR-12's, but at least half only accepted pick-up. :~

But you're right, forcing the market to one way only is :bartmoon:

[DavidG]

With a Paypal account, after a certain amount you have to "Verify" the account.

This involves giving Paypal your bank account details so then can access your account. This is above having your credit card details.

NO BLO.DY WAY will I hand out bank account details. :~

[Stuart]

This is my reply to one of the many threads on Ebay talking about the issue:


I have a seller rep of 100%, so how have my buyers suffered by my "shady practice" of liking direct deposit? I found PayPal a nightmare the one time that I trialled it as a seller - I couldn't get my money (easily) because I don't do a lot of trading, and so therefore there wasn't enough in the PayPal account.

If I use Ebay in future, I'll probably not do it for the occasional item, and wait until I have a good collection, or find another method of selling the one or two things I have.

In the past, I had people direct deposit, I got the money (including that needed for me to post the item in my account, and not locked away earning PayPal interest), and the buyer got their item.

Oh well, Ebay's call - they can set whatever rules for their site, but making it almost exclusively PayPal will loose them a lot of sales.

I hate the fact Ebay is already so full of commercial sellers, guess that is all Ebay will be after this.

[woodbe]

Yep. Got it this morning. Sent it to the ACCC.

It doesn't matter much really, but it does make it harder for the occasional seller. I think I've sold 6 or so items in the last year, all direct deposit. Paypal requires a premium or business account at that level, I probably wouldn't bother because of the dollars. If they lifted this limit to a more reasonable number, I wouldn't like it, but probably go along with it.

Glad I dumped the saleable items in Jan. :)

As a buyer, no problems with paypal, it works well, especially for overseas purchases. I hear a lot of sellers complaining that PayPal is all biassed towards the (shonky) buyers way though.

woodbe.

[woodbe]

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/259608/fromItemId/3669#h3_40



Third line forcing

Third line forcing is a specific form of exclusive dealing prohibited outright by the Trade Practices Act. It is not subject to the substantial lessening of competition test. It involves the supply of goods or services on condition that the purchaser buys goods or services from a particular third party, or a refusal to supply because the purchaser will not agree to that condition.



woodbe.

[Sturdee]

Third line forcing is a specific form of exclusive dealing prohibited outright by the Trade Practices Act.


But is this relevant to Ebay. :?

As I understand it Ebay is a foreign company and their service are hosted on internet services outside Australia so how is the Australian Trade Practices Act relevant to them, and if it is how can it be enforced.

Might be applicable to the Australian Ebay site but again only enforceable if hosted locally, which I doubt as well.


Peter.

[woodbe]

The PayPal service is provided by PayPal Australia Pty Limited (ABN 93 111 195 389) which holds an Australian Financial Services Licence, number 304962.

Not according to Ebay...

I think even if they were a foreign company, it wouldn't exempt them from Australian Law.

woodbe

[zathras]

Just found this out myself.

It smacks of double dipping on selling fees, especially as EBay owns Paypal.

I've only sold one item on Ebay with Paypal, and was disgusted that despite their claim of "instant" money transfer, the money was held in limbo for 5+ days when I transferred it out.
Once bitten, twice shy.

That never happens with the many Bank Tranfers I have received at other times.

Sounds like the ACCC will have field day, especially as EBay is not openly disclosing their association with Paypal. But then again, they really are a toothless tiger :~

[DavidG]

Paypal account now closed. :U

[Carry Pine]

.......and when I tried to contact Paypal with a question about my account, I was directed to a USA telephone number!

Long live 'Buy Sell and Swap' on the Forum!

Carry Pine

[endgrain]

agreed scribbly, hope they go down big time, they won't of course, being the greedy corporates they are but what audacity! always had a problem with the legitimacy ebay.
it's downright insulting to the intellect. bleedin yanks:((
evidently the migration is over to Oztion, haven't had a chance to look them over yet.
it's that or back to the real time auction which i reckon is better anyways.
anyone remember the infamous harry harris auctions out mittagong way? and the regular friday sessions at lawsons, raffan & kellaher's :2tsup:etc etc
maybe the trading post will have a rebirth:D
cheers

[Burnsy]

As a seller it stinks but as a buyer it could mean less bidders so lower prices.

[Toolin Around]

With a Paypal account, after a certain amount you have to "Verify" the account.

This involves giving Paypal your bank account details so then can access your account. This is above having your credit card details.

NO BLO.DY WAY will I hand out bank account details. :~


I had an account with them in the past. They did just what you're saying - tried withdrawing money from the account when told not to and had agreed not to. If you do plan to open an ebay account make sure it's a completely separate bank account to the ones you have that has even ten cents in it.

[Toolin Around]

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/259608/fromItemId/3669#h3_40





woodbe.

My guess is they would be immune to any laws in australia as they would simply move the servers off shore.

[Sawdust Maker]

J

Sounds like the ACCC will have field day, especially as EBay is not openly disclosing their association with Paypal. But then again, they really are a toothless tiger :~

I'm sure the people whom work for/at the ACCC do not like this sort of analogy. It is IMHO very insulting :no::~
Not sure Richard Pratt would agree that the ACCC are toothless http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/802635/fromItemId/776481

[Zarguld]

I do like paypal but hate how you have to wait so long to transfer the money to your account but I dont think anyone should be forced to use it.

[DavidG]

Do the only thing they will listen to.
Close your account.

[rod@plasterbrok]

Ebay lost me when they jacked up the prices of having a store.

[woodbe]

My guess is they would be immune to any laws in australia as they would simply move the servers off shore.

Ebay Australia is an Australian company. Moving the servers offshore wouldn't change anything. They are also too big to hide.

woodbe.

[dvdhack]

I think we need a version of ebay by an Australian company that will not price gouge the way that ebay do. There costs are very high for a completely automated service. I would want to pass on the costs of paypal to a buyer who chose to use it, as you are entitled to.

[Stuart]

I think we need a version of ebay by an Australian company that will not price gouge the way that ebay do. There costs are very high for a completely automated service. I would want to pass on the costs of paypal to a buyer who chose to use it, as you are entitled to.
They exist already. The problem is, as a seller you want the maximum number of buyers so you get a reasonable price. I haven't looked at the competition, but I can't imagine they have the same potential of selling an item at a reasonable price as Ebay has.

[Toolin Around]

Ebay Australia is an Australian company. Moving the servers offshore wouldn't change anything. They are also too big to hide.

woodbe.

How long does it take to deregister a company, close the office and move it to india. Not long, thousands do it yearly.

[clear out]

Look up 'TradeMe' in NZ for an Ebay killer.

Also Hans great broadside on the Swiss dodgy dealers on his 'Home of fine old tools'. Its in the Last column ebay negative/positive?

Remember any complains and they will ban you. If you want to put a direct contact on your ad or shop use a photo that gets past their detection gear wat searches out a printed address and phone number.

Commom Aussie we can screw these Swiss wankers any day.

[echnidna]

www.trademe.co.nz isn't much chop


www.oztion.com.au Oztion is much better

neither of these has the volume of items as ebay

[Gra]

How long does it take to deregister a company, close the office and move it to india. Not long, thousands do it yearly.

then they would lose the .au. to get a .com.au site you need to register a company. I believe (one of the odd Aussie rules in domain names). But it wouldn't take much to close the business here and reopen in bermuda or tuvalu or the like, in fact you will probably find they already have an office there, but they would need to be vary careful to ensure they dont infringe on the banking laws (I think they already do and have a license to do so), as they could then be shut down

[woodbe]

Not long, thousands do it yearly.

Name one. :) Shutting down a company is not the same as slamming the door. It's usually a nightmare. :oo:

Paypal especially needs Australian registration. It's a financial institution and it needs a license. We might not like them, and they may be making crook decisions, but Ebay Australia and Paypal Australia are legitimate Australian businesses, operating under the auspices of Australian Laws.

woodbe

[Master Splinter]

A similar letter has gone to Ebay UK members, requiring them to offer PayPal on all their sales.

It sounds like Ebay is doing some market reaction testing in smaller markets before hitting the US with it.

[Buzzer]

Just closed my paypal a/c !!!

[ernknot]

Just closed my paypal a/c !!!
I will open one just so I can close it

[bsrlee]

I think they are trying to get around the Australian laws as according to a story in MX mag here in Sydney, that they will continue to allow Visa/Mastercard, but the transactions must be processed via PayPal, not your local bank.

From the look of the ACCC site, that is still '3rd party forcing', but it is a try, or is that try-on?

[DavidG]

Suddenly seems to be more stuff on OZtion.

[echnidna]

only trouble with Oztion is there aint as many buyers there.

[Brickie]

only trouble with Oztion is there aint as many buyers there.

There soon will be though....:2tsup:

[TermiMonster]

I closed mine.

[Brickie]

Its ok and cool to close PayPal accounts but its like the Major banks of Oz, one puts up their fees so every one migrates to another Major bank only to be told that they too are increasing fees, so you move again, etc, etc.

Ebay knows that if you want to buy/sell on Ebay that you WILL use Paypal, youll all protest in the short term, but youll be back........whmahahahahahaha:D

[zathras]

The irony of it all is people may move over to Oztion, but some sellers there will still offer Paypal so epay still indirectly wins out from the other auction site :rolleyes:

[Ivan in Oz]

Ebay knows that if you want to buy/sell on Ebay that you WILL use Paypal, youll all protest in the short term, but youll be back........whmahahahahahaha:D

Unless you deal directly with the seller,
and NO ePAY involvment.

Though,
I am not going to admit that's how I got my 3 Camping Mattresses for near
HALF PRICE of Some of the Money Grabbing Camping Stores!


Now looking at a Comercial Honda Lawn Mower:rolleyes::rolleyes::D

[Big Shed]

ACCC now officially investigating (http://www.theage.com.au/news/general/ebay-paypal-probe/2008/04/16/1208025245331.html) this matter.

Hope they have better luck than they had with petrol pricing:((

[Waldo]

ACCC now officially investigating (http://www.theage.com.au/news/general/ebay-paypal-probe/2008/04/16/1208025245331.html) this matter.

Hope they have better luck than they had with petrol pricing:((

Hope they go in with :minigun: blazing and not like their normal practice.

[Big Shed]

ACCC now asking for submissions from the public, see here (http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23559242-15306,00.html).

[Ivan in Oz]

This might also be of interest to some

internal petition....how long will it last before it is taken off?

http://www.petitiononline.com/ebayau/petition.html

:?

[Ivan in Oz]

Some more [other] reads

http://forums.ebay.com.au/forum.jspa?forumID=500000001

[Brickie]

internal petition....

http://www.petitiononline.com/ebayau/petition.html

:?

How is it connected with ebay?:? its a separate site altogether.

[Ivan in Oz]

How is it connected with ebay?:? its a separate site altogether.

Not sure,
but there seem to me a LOT of disgruntled Ppl,

I was Number 8thousand something.

Didn't give any (extra) information to them.
other than what they already have.

[Big Shed]

http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23576351-15306,00.html

[Dusty Dave]

It's all happened before, sadly.

eBay regularly move the goalposts to entrap those who have been foolish enough to make it a critical part of their business.

There was a massive backlash a year or so ago when eBay suddenly changed the cost structure (in the upward direction) for 'store inventory' items. Petitions, boycotts, submissions to the ACCC all happened but achieved nothing. Sellers that relied heavily on the economical store inventory format to stock a large range of low-individual-demand items (think about, say, rollerblades that come in a variety of colours and sizes, or spare parts for machinery in niche industries) went broke virtually overnight because the cost of listing some items multiplied by several times.

As far as the ACCC is concerned, eBay is where people BUY things, not sell them. To make the ACCC interested in how eBay treats sellers, you first need to educate them that sellers are in fact buyers of services. Then you need to educate them that eBay is more than a single, free-market supplier of services, but in fact an aggressive monopoly that maintains a stranglehold on the single most important new-millennium sales channel by buying and closing its opposition. Then try and convince them that its their job to police a company that runs its affairs from Swiss bank accounts and employs less than 20 people in Australia (most of them lawyers).

It's all too much for the weights-and-measures mob at the ACCC to deal with. Sooner or later the various govt depts around the world will catch up with eBay, but for now they can run rampant, claim whatever jurisdiction they like and make up their own rules as they go along.

[endgrain]

- of particular relevance in this day and age of corporate moles and capitalist peeps


<tt><tt>"Gaveling Down the Rabble: How 'Free Trade' is
Stealing Our Democracy."
by Jane Anne Morris, Apex Press, 2008, 200 pages
More information: www.gavelingdowntherabble.org
<http://www.gavelingdowntherabble.org (http://www.gavelingdowntherabble.org/)></tt></tt></pre>lifted from the poclad mailing list :)

<tt><tt>http://www.poclad.org (http://www.poclad.org/[email protected])


</tt></tt></pre>

[Big Shed]

Sounds like this is getting attention at the very top of the banking system

http://business.theage.com.au/rba-may-buy-into-ebays-paypal-push/20080423-27x3.html

[Waldo]

Hopefully with the Reserve Bank stepping in with their clout will give extra strength against the eBay move, time will tell.

[DavidG]

In the mean time the number of sellers and buyers on OZtion is increasing.

My policy is to check OZtion (http://www.oztion.com.au/)first and buy there if possible.

That will hurt EPay. :U

[Ivan in Oz]

I am in the middle of an On-Going email correspondence with eBAY.

They don't seem to be able to tell me what their Site Policy was; :?:?
which caused then to Suspend a Seller
from whom I was wanting to purchase :(

[Dusty Dave]

I am in the middle of an On-Going email correspondence with eBAY.

They don't seem to be able to tell me what their Site Policy was; :?:?
which caused then to Suspend a Seller
from whom I was wanting to purchase :(


I'd be very surprised if they tell you anything at all Ivan. eBay suspends sellers all the time, it could be for ripping off buyers but it is just as likely to be for non-payment of bills, listing items in the wrong category, having an error in their contact details, some kind of petty 'violation' in their listings or even posting undesirable comments on their forums. That's bad enough, but imagine if they then went and told anyone who asked why they did it? Their legal department would bounce off the walls. My bet is that if you're lucky you'll get a cut-and paste response from Sanjit that it is not eBay policy to discuss decisions with anyone other than the member involved.

Heck, they rarely even discuss it with the member involved...

[echnidna]

Now that the ACCC is investigating ebay the enquiry should be broadened to take in other things such as

Is it appropriate that a merchant (ebay) own a financial institution (paypal)
Ebay fees are usurious and need investigating
Ebay fees are inconsistent from country to country yet ebays own costs will remain virtually uniform
A complaints system that can freeze all of a parties funds beyond any sum that is part of a dispute is inequitable
A complaints system that appears to favour a complainant is inequitable


If you agree, take your complaints to the ACCC

[soundman]

Just got back from my break & thaught about all this befor putting my listings back up.

The petition stands at over 12000 signatures.

It is interesting to not that ebay had this planned loong ago.

they have been sneaking up on this one.

in 2005 restricting the sale of digitaly deliverd items to paypal.
then making it compulsory to offer paypal on a listing... then making it the sole mathod of payment.

am I going to put my listings up....... still thinking about it.

cheers

[echnidna]

perhaps ebay has done an about turn.
You can select a variety of payment types despite ebays deadline for paypal only being long past.

[soundman]

current paypal exclisive deadline in 31 may 2008.

[echnidna]

pardon me I thought it was the beginning of May.

[zathras]

Currently you *have* to offer paypal.

In June *only* paypal.

It still sucks like a hoover :no:

[Big Shed]

Currently you *have* to offer paypal.

In June *only* paypal.

It still sucks like a hoover :no:

Don't know how rigidly Ebay enforces that policy. Just bought 3 items of a seller (http://search.ebay.com.au/_W0QQsassZwoodworksupplies) and he doesn't offer PayPal.

[Waldo]

G'day,

Just read this in todays edition of B&T (magazine for advertising industry).

Sensis is to challenge the Australian dominance of eBay by launching online auctions on its Trading Post website. The move is set to be supported by an extensive marketing campaign, involving traditional and online advertising. Sensis refused to specify how much it will spend on ads in its attempt to overturn eBay. Trading Post is to position itself as a “true Australian alternative” to eBay, with several points of difference Sensis hopes will lure consumers away from the US giant. Sellers will have to have an Australian
address, blocking overseas traders. Listings on the site will be free, with Trading Post only taking a cut of successful sales. Buyers will also be able to pay using a variety of methods, which Sensis is keen to contrast with eBay’s attempts to make consumers use the PayPal system. Sensis is to challenge the Australian dominance of eBay by launching online auctions on its Trading Post website.

“Australian sellers are up in arms about eBay making them pay via PayPal, and they are screaming out for a new way of doing online auctions. The response from sellers to Trading Post has been overwhelmingly positive.


Any competition is good in my book. :2tsup:

[soundman]

Oh and the latest

you cant leave negative feed back for a buyer....... so whats the point.


cheers

[Burnsy]

You don't have to offer Patpal for local pickup. I think people are just going to state local pickup only and then wait for buyers to ask whether they would post it, to which they wil answer yes if you pay by direct deposit, all done through email after the first question is asked, ebay can't track it or stop it.

I have just had a major cleanout and snuck the last of the items in on the 20th:D

[rodm]

Ebay had until 23rd May to comment on the public submissions. Included in the submission were objections from Reserve Bank, Commonwealth Bank, Choice and many other organisation and private submissions.

The ACCC will give an opinion in mid June to coincide with the 17th June proposed full implimentation.

As a matter of interest ebay had already excluded Western Union as a payment method under the safe payment banner so they have had their toes in the water for a while.

[flynnsart]

You don't have to offer Patpal for local pickup. I think people are just going to state local pickup only and then wait for buyers to ask whether they would post it, to which they wil answer yes if you pay by direct deposit, all done through email after the first question is asked, ebay can't track it or stop it.


Only problem with that is you have no comeback if they diddle you after you direct deposit the money.

The trading post is a pretty slow site, (all the sensis sites are) i find it a bit frustrating at times, I hope they speed it up if they are going to get into the auction thing.

Donna

[DavidG]

Only problem with that is you have no comeback if they diddle you after you direct deposit the money.
Under the 100 point identity system required to open a bank account, the law would have no problem in tracking down a scammer, neither would a small claims action.

[Stuart]

...all the sensis sites are...And their search engines suck if the White Pages is anything to go by. Unless of course you like wanting to find someone in Frankston (Melbourne) and get told about all the others in Perth instead.

[soundman]

I've just done something positive about this.
I've sent ebay a long email.
I strongly recomend everybody here concerned should do the same thing.
They obviously havnt had the balls to try this in the US, they are obviously trying it on here.
We need to burry the Ba@#$%$S in paper, well digits anyway.

I also notice that ebay is very quiet at the moment... hmmm

Back on the dispute thing
Have you all heard about the fishing reel scam.

there was a bloke selling a very expensive as new fishing reel a while back......he sold it a number of times and got run out of town on a rail.
The idiot tried it again under a new identity... same reel same speel.
A couple of blokes on one of the fishing forums got burned and posted up about it......one of the blokes had a transaction on the same reel pending... so they went fishing...... the scammer became the scammed....police involved.
Sammer was scammed arrested and charged.......no thanks to ebay's dispute resolution system.


cheers

[Burnsy]

It is happening already, check out this listing (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/6-inch-Carter-Bench-WOOD-VICE-Made-in-Australia_W0QQitemZ160246018444QQihZ006QQcategoryZ104041QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) "Paypal not accepted under any circumstances". Ebay can't rely on the public to dob him in as well all think their new system is a rort. Interesting to see if the listing gets pulled.

[Farnarkel]

I actually saw an ebay listing yesterday that showed Paypal as an option but had an extra line saying please add $2.50 to total if using Paypal.

Suspect that will also be pulled!!

[Waldo]

Good on 'em both. :2tsup: Stick it up eBay, why should a seller have to use a method of payment if they don't want to?

[echnidna]

for all that, I much prefer to use paypal.
Its not limited to ebay and its far easier to track than direct deposits plus it works overseas which direct deposit doesn't.

[Big Shed]

It appears that Ebay has modified its' stance on PayPal only, when I logged on this morning I got this message.

So now we can pay via PayPal, Visa/Mastercard or cash on pick up.

No direct deposit though!

[Big Shed]

for all that, I much prefer to use paypal.
Its not limited to ebay and its far easier to track than direct deposits plus it works overseas which direct deposit doesn't.

I agree, I am starting to use PayPal more and more for overseas purchases. It is actually cheaper than Visa/Mastercard and they give you a better exchange rate as well. It is an easy way to transfer money to people overseas, certainly much quicker and heaps cheaper than a bank draft.

More and more US suppliers are now offering PayPal as well as Visa/Mastercard.

[Dusty Dave]

It appears that Ebay has modified its' stance on PayPal only, when I logged on this morning I got this message.

So now we can pay via PayPal, Visa/Mastercard or cash on pick up.

No direct deposit though!

No, that is the new stance, unmodified. They were never going to prevent 'big' sellers with their own merchant facilities from accepting credit cards. What they have done is to block all of the small to medium sellers from accepting direct deposits and cards via third parties like Paymate (which has a full Australian banking license and offers a far superior service to PayPal, BTW).

In other words, if you sell on eBay and you AREN'T a large business with your own credit card facilities, you can only accept payment by PayPal or cash on collection.

[Waldo]

Can't see how they can enforce sellers offering buyers the option of paying d/deposit if they ask if it's okay. It's what I'll continue to do, unless it's within driving distance, in which case it'll be C.O.D.

[rodm]

I have just recieved notification from the ACCC that they have revoked the paypal/ebay exclusive deal. It is still not over as paypal/ebay can appeal but this is IMHO a good result from the ACCC.

[lesmeyer]

Just saw this info in 1 of the news sites. ACCC have asked eBay to suspend the decision to use only paypal pending further investigation. Good news for now.
Les

[fenderbelly]

EBay payment changes halted by ACCC22:27 AEST Thu Jun 12 2008agoVIEWS: 0| FLOCKS: 0| 0 comments so farThe auction website eBay must freeze controversial plans to simplify payment options for buyers and sellers until the Australian consumer watchdog determines whether the move is anti-competitive.

The US-based website estimates it has about five million Australian users and contributes $2.6 billion to the domestic economy.

The online auction site announced in April that from June 17 it would no longer allow direct deposits, money orders or personal cheques as payment options.

The controversial change would leave buyers and sellers with two options: cash-on-delivery or payment via the online commerce website Paypal, which is owned by eBay.

The management of eBay has said the changes were aimed at improving transaction security.

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) has since kicked off an investigation and taken submissions on the possible effects of the proposed change.

"The ACCC acknowledges that having Paypal as the only payment provider has the potential to deliver some benefits to users, such as increased buyer protection insurance in certain circumstances," ACCC chairman Graeme Samuel said in a statement.

"However, the ACCC believes that consumers are in the best position to decide which payment method is most suitable for them."

Mr Samuel has issued notice to eBay to temporarily halt its plans to shift to the new arrangement next Tuesday, saying it could give Paypal an unfair advantage over competitors.

"Given eBay's position as Australia's leading online marketplace, the notified conduct will substantially reduce competition to supply online payment services..." he said.

"In light of serious competition concerns raised in the draft notice and the significant concerns raised by interested parties, I have asked eBay to delay implementation ... until a final decision is made by the ACCC."

[cedarfiend]

Ebay is dead (I Hope) I can't wait to join this auction site (www.smartbid.com.au). I liked their press release :D

Pencil the first of July 2008 in on your calendar.
Why? Because this is the date Australians were finally provided with a community auction site, made by users for users.
Smartbid is a genuine alternative to EBay and the other various spin off auction sites whose not so lofty aspirations seem to be being regarded as the slightly lesser evil.
The difference? Smartbid is free! You can sell and buy items for no cost.
How can this work?
Community!
The Smartbid business model is so simple yet incomprehensible for other auction sites. We don’t mind making it public because we know it’s far too radical for the opposition to attempt so here it is:
Create a community of users and don’t rip them off
Smartbid will charge a minimal charge for some additional extras, if required in order to function as a viable busines.
Smartbid are not going to siphon money from their users so they can advertise on TV and radio. Our strength is our site and the services provided. This is the information age and what better method of spreading the word then a base of satisfied Internet savvy users.
Smartbid are not going to ask ‘how’ you found their site. They only care about ‘why’ you found their site.

[endgrain]

as of 10.00 a.m. this morning it cost a whopping $5.00 AUS to just register as a seller on "smartbid".
there is also NO advertised trading address as required by law, just a email link.
also VERY suss is:
"16. Governing Law and Jurisdiction<o></o><o></o>
This user agreement is subject to the laws of Sydney, Australia."
end quote.
ain't real happy with ebay having a fascist monopoly either. (a law unto themselves)
rather the buy/sell thread in here, trading post, or whats wrong with a REAL LIVE LOCAL AUCTION HOUSE !:2tsup:
(keep your dollars IN OZ)

[cedarfiend]

Yeas well, I've spent the "whopping" 5 dollars averification fee and I can list and sell as much as I like.

Their cut when I sell something? 0 dollars!

I can list as much as I like now without incurring any other costs. Can any other site match that?

You can always find a few holes to pick but given that smartbid are a brand new site (they open officially in 6 hours), I think it is a very good very real alternative auction site.

[endgrain]

ah well, it's only 5 bucks, wonder if they'll send a receipt :)))
let us know how you go cedar, i.e. whether you get that western red feelin' or the true blue aussie stuff.
all the best with it.

[cedarfiend]

Well, so far my smartbid experience has been brilliant. I'm able to list as much as I want and I get to keep all of the selling price.

Look, smartbid seem to a community site for Aussies to sell stuff and it's such a good feeling knowing you've paid your 5 bucks and they aren't trying to fleece you at every turn.

I emailed their admin suggesting some additional categories and got a thank you back, plus they added the categories and gave me 5 bucks more free credit for my time. My head hurts trying to imagine Ebay or (any other site for that matter) doing that.

I'll reserve my final judgment but from first impressions smartbid have been an extremely professional and personable, community auction site (and Aussie too :U)

[Big Shed]

I'm confused! If Smartbid is free, what do you need $5 "free" credit for. And if Smartbid is free, how are they going to make a profit?

[echnidna]

I'm confused! If Smartbid is free, what do you need $5 "free" credit for. And if Smartbid is free, how are they going to make a profit?

I expect the free will only last till they get enough listings etc.
The $5 may be to cover admin etc till the system is running comfortably.
So get in quick, spend $5 and pay no fees ever.
btw I'm not involved, I haven't even registered - yet.

[Metal Head]

:D:2tsup::D:2tsup::D:2tsup::D:2tsup::D

Online auction website eBay has dropped its bid to use Australia as a guinea pig to trial a new policy where all other modes of payment are barred except its own transaction gateway, PayPal.

As a result, direct deposits, personal cheques and money orders will continue to exist as allowing all existing payment methods on eBay.com.au.

Australia's Professional eBay Sellers Alliance president Phil Leahy welcomed the news. "This is great for the eBay community this will remove the confusion that's been around since this proposal was first made". "We're looking forward to getting back to business and providing a great experience to eBay buyers," Mr Leahy said.

Earlier this month the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission released a draft proposal to revoke eBay's immunity from anti-competitive sanctions for enforcing the payment policy on its website. EBay subsequently said it would continue to fight for the safety benefits of the policy for consumers, despite the ACCC ruling.

The auction giant said it was willing to go to court to ensure that the PayPal policy was enforced. EBay today withdrew its notification to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) of its intention to remove other payment methods. "While we disagree with the ACCC’s draft notice, we have decided to withdraw the notification to stop any further confusion and disruption among the eBay community," eBay Australia vice-president Simon Smith said in a statement.

"EBay's goal has always been to provide members with a safer experience. Under the current circumstances, we will continue to look for ways to do that while still offering a variety of payment choices. "EBay regrets any uncertainty that this process has caused among the community and believe that today’s decision will remove further doubt," Mr Smith said.

"Although we have decided not to move ahead with the further planned changes, eBay is pleased that all buyers can now choose PayPal along with other permitted payment methods of their choice". The ACCC had set a July 3 deadline for submissions to its draft notice and was set to make a final judgement by the end of July.

[Vernonv]

The trouble is that as a seller you still have to offer Paypal as a payment option even if you don't what to use it.

I was selling an item last week and put in the description that I preferred bank deposit and that the winning bidder "should not use paypal". The auction was going well and was in it's last day (of a 10 day listing) and ebay canceled it because of "Misleading and Discouraging Payments" or some such rubbish - all because I didn't want the winning bidder to use PayPal (because it costs me more and I don't like/trust them).

Now I understand that some people may not want to use bank deposit and thats fine ... don't bid. Sellers should have the right to stipulate whatever payment method suits them (within reason).

[Big Shed]

I have reported 3 listings as being in contravention of Ebay rules for wanting buyers to pay extra if they use Paypal (no it wasn't one of yours Vernonv, at least I think they weren't).

The reason I did this is to get a response from Ebay regarding the supposed rule that sellers can't pass on Paypal fees.

I am still awaiting a response, it has been more than 48 hours and they promised a reply in < 36 hrs.

All 3 listings are still active.

I have in the past had words to the effect that Paypal fees are extra on my listings and they have never banned one of my listings.

[endgrain]

you should check out their currency conversion rates :(( we do a fair bit of international trading and have real issues with paypal and the like. it's a bleedin' ripp off! then they hang onto our cash for days on end (like banks used to do) FFS what is it with corps & shareholders these days? maybe the recession will cool things off.
pigs might fly as well

[zathras]

Next time I sell something on E-Bay, I'll offer a postage discount on the stipulation the buyer doesn't use Paypal.

[Honorary Bloke]

Yeas well, I've spent the "whopping" 5 dollars averification fee and I can list and sell as much as I like.

Their cut when I sell something? 0 dollars!

I can list as much as I like now without incurring any other costs. Can any other site match that?

You can always find a few holes to pick but given that smartbid are a brand new site (they open officially in 6 hours), I think it is a very good very real alternative auction site.

I hope it works out for you, and I expect it will--for a while. But how do you think E-Bay got started? As a free service! Then the founders got swamped and couldn't afford to keep it free. So they asked everyone to send 5 cents to them when they sold something--honour system. The founders were buried in coins! Hmmm. . . new business model. :rolleyes: The rest is history.