Installing dishwasher + plumbing

[Spelunx]

I have been given a dishwasher, it is about two years old, and in good nick. :2tsup:

I am wondering what it takes to install the thing?

If I do it near the sink, does it need a dedicated cold water line?

or can I just T off the cold that leads to the sink, and have one going to the dishwasher?

I have an unused powerpoint directly above where want to install it, so I was thinking I could drill a hole up through the kitchen-top, and plug it into there.

The actual cabinet-making bit should be a snap, I will remove two cupboards, and then fill the left-over half cupboard space with those cane drawers or a wine-rack.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated,

Jayson.

[endgrain]

congrats on your new "housemann" thang there jayson.
install .. depends on whether the thang has a water heater unit (some do ... some don't) included, the european models normally do, recommend u check the idiot guide (manual) if you don't have one they are sometimes avail. online. the t piece on cold line will do the trick and the waste outlet normally feeds back to the s bend via a nipple on your waste under the sink ...
personally i hate them ... reason?
a: you have to rinse everything anyway
b: forget doin' the pots in it ( a waste of time)
b: not that energy efficient really (double the water of an average hand jobbie)
c: the recommended chemicals don't agree with our pumpkin patch (we recycle all water) and if you use greenie type normal dishwashing liquid it can be catostrophic
- a few plus's
d: great for large tribes and the odd metallica rage party
e: cleans glassware (with a rinse aide) real good.

i'd re-employ the maid and list the unit on ebay

regards to sandgroper country, w.a. uni and the scabs hotel.

[montiee]

waste outlet normally feeds back to the s bend via a nipple on your waste under the sink ...

Yes though don't forget that you have to drill the nipple out. It's closed by default. Last thing you want to do is connect it up and water goes flying out :lol:



personally i hate them ... reason?
a: you have to rinse everything anyway

Sigh, not true. I just bought one and I don't rinse a single thing. More to the point I leave it standing in the dishwasher for a week before doing a cycle so it's even dried on. All I do is scrape the dish to remove the chunk bits like you would do anyway if washing in the sink.



b: forget doin' the pots in it ( a waste of time)

Yeh I agree though not because it won't clean them. It's just that you can only fit in a limited amount and it's not worth it. However if you want it'll clean them.



b: not that energy efficient really (double the water of an average hand jobbie)

Again your information is completely incorrect. It's been proven that they actually use less water than most people do when using a sink assuming it's not a 20 year old unit or something.


c: the recommended chemicals don't agree with our pumpkin patch (we recycle all water) and if you use greenie type normal dishwashing liquid it can be catostrophic

Well I guess that's true. Most people aren't that green to worry about it. I'm definitely not.



d: great for large tribes and the odd metallica rage party
I'm single and live alone and I think they are fantastic compared to doing it by hand. I just stack em in the washer until I get a full load.


I guess it depends upon how old the unit is vs how efficient and good it is at it's job. At 2 years it will be more than fine and water efficient. I used a dishwasher in the US while on holidays and it was a horrid piece of junk but it was ancient. My bosch washes and dries everything really well.

BTW don't skimp on the tablets. Make sure you get a 5-1 with rinse aid etc.

[Spelunx]

Cheers guys...

I am pretty happy with the fact that we are getting one for nix, it is a reasonable model and everything. We have had D/W in other houses, but now we actually need one, with two little tackers around, and not enough hours in the day!

I think I might take a picture of the under-sink arrangement and post it here tomorrow, to get peoples opinion as to the best way to T the cold water off.

Thanks for the help so far!

Jayson

[tricky4000]

You know what Jayson, tee off the hot water tap, not the cold. Its better. Dishwashers usually (in almost every case) heat the water up anyway. Why not give it hot water to start with. I'm sure your hot water unit will cost you less to heat up that water than your dishwasher will to heat it up from cold. This way, all your dishwasher is doing is maintaining the water's temp. It make the washes faster too. When you do this though, be careful what inlet pipe you use. Go out and buy yourself a one peice inlet pipe, ie, the whole pipe it moulded in one...and they're made of thick plastic so they're not effected by heat. I'm sure any dishwasher sales/repair centre stock them...same place you'd buy washing machine hoses. Ask them for the one Fisher and Paykel dish drawers use. They're the best in my opinion. Dishwashers are really easy to install, they're not very different to a clothes washing machine. You may have to cut the waste pipe from under your sink and fit in a peice with a nipple. If you have a front loading washing machine in your laundry, then chances are you have one of these waste peices with a nipple there that the waste connects to.
Good luck...and I hope the washer changes your life...its changed mine!
Dan.

[montiee]

You know what Jayson, tee off the hot water tap, not the cold. Its better. Dishwashers usually (in almost every case) heat the water up anyway. Why not give it hot water to start with.

Yeh when I installed mine I had the same thoughts. The question I have though is why dishwasher manufacturers recommend a cold connection in the first place? Also the amount of water heated I don't think is really alot and rinsing is done in cold water so not sure what the advantage is whether your hotwater system uses electricity to heat up a *all* the water used or your washer does but only in the inintial cleaning cycle, not the rinsing.

I had the same dilemma with the front loader as well but that was simpler because some clothes you don't want to wash in super hot water due to shrinkage so it was a clearer decision there.

[JehuAB]

The other problem (apart from the rinse cycle) is the temp of the hot water... most dishwashers have varying cycles starting from around 30 C and going up to maybe 55 C. Hot water out of your HWS will be hotter than most of those.

[endgrain]

tell ya what ... just ignore last post completely, totally ignorant and don't know what I'm talkin' about. ...
have owned and repaired/installed at least 7 dishwashers over the last 35 years, the dishlex and the model we had in europe (can't remember the name) worked the best BUT they didn't clean everything as good as you can do yourself at a fraction of the cost. the current beast is a "blanco" and for the record is a piece of expensive crap, but what do expect in this throw away society.

[Spelunx]

I have attached an image of what the taps look like under the sink, all nice and modern, luckily, as the kitchen was re-done about four years ago.

What would be the easiest way to T off the cold?

If someone could link to an actual product, or upload an image of what I am after that would be outstanding!

I have an answer for the Q about hooking up to the Hot tap too, but I need to find some links first, so I will post that later.

Cheers

Jayson.

[montiee]

It's funny. I just installed a brand new dishwasher and all my points are valid. Either you don't really know what you are going on about or are happy to mislead people. I too can crap on about how I've owned over 20 dishwashers in my life, blah blah.

[davo2310]

get yourself a 1/2 inch brass screwed tee and 2 1/2 hex nipples & 1 washing machine cock ( brass will do ) or an arco if you like. isolate ya water supply and remove the COLD tap assembly you have, screw on the tee with teflon and and nipples in the other 2 ends, mini stop back in on and washing machine tap in the other. done.....

Hot water connections can damage the machines aswell as wear your hose nut washers and hoses out fast.



and endgrain, criticism is a normal thing, every one has there own ways and means as they are in different states aswell.....

[Spelunx]

This might answer a few questions, but specifically the one about hooking it up to the Cold Tap.




Dishwashers



The water required for a dishwasher can be as low as 30 litres and as high as 90 litres per
load.
When you are buying a dishwasher, always ask how much water is used per cycle because
over the life of the machine this could be a more important consideration than the purchase
price of the machine.
The lower water use dishwashers use water more efficiently than washing-up by hand
(assuming normal care of water with hand-washing).
A dishwasher comes ready to connect to the hot or cold tap. Dishwashers connected to the
cold tap are often more economical because some cold water is used for rinsing.


Some helpful hints


∗ Never wash the plates under running water; use a bowl of water or fill the sink.


∗ Peeling vegetables under running water wastes a lot; use a bowl of water or fill the sink.


∗ Do not use hot water when cold will do.


∗ Fix all leaks and drips as soon as possible; the water is valuable.


∗ Some dishwashers have economy cycles which use less water. Select these where
appropriate. Generally, they clean ordinary dishes but not heavily soiled cooking
utensils.

∗ Always wait until the dishwasher is full before using it; this gives the best economy.



From here:
http://www.byron.nsw.gov.au/pdfs/on_site_sewage/saving_water.pdf

[Spelunx]

get yourself a 1/2 inch brass screwed tee and 2 1/2 hex nipples & 1 washing machine cock ( brass will do ) or an arco if you like. isolate ya water supply and remove the COLD tap assembly you have, screw on the tee with teflon and and nipples in the other 2 ends, mini stop back in on and washing machine tap in the other. done.....

Hot water connections can damage the machines aswell as wear your hose nut washers and hoses out fast.


And this type of stuff is readily available at my local plumbing supplies shop?

[endgrain]

a healthy and objective critique, citing examples and valid references is one thing, blatantly wrong and "assumed" misinformation + aggressive flaming is another ...
please accept my apologies spelunx ....

we live and work in the sticks and currently have dam and tank water avail. (both about half full) after some years of none at all. we have no choice but to go water efficient appliances and use techniques that save the old H2O. and have done so for many many years.
we wash up (on average) in about 1- 2 litres of water (we keep adding a little boiled water to the original morning wash) a day, in a plastic insert container for the sink, which then goes onto the 'erb garden.
re: cold water connection ... as mentioned in first post, this is by far the most efficient in terms of total energy use (heating and reheating storage water is pretty expensive, it's also unhealthy). i do remember in europe that washing machines also had a heater onboard and that it was a "science" to get the system right. once you had it set up properly, hey presto clean clothes and relatively clean plates as well (sort of) ...unusually high temperatures tho' from memory.

pz

[montiee]

This might answer a few questions, but specifically the one about hooking it up to the Cold Tap.

Yeh I hooked it up to cold and will leave it there. Thanks for the info, you too davo2310. I was kind of worried that some parts of the machine may not be designed for the hotter water my solar hart system produces. Even that information from a water usage perspective is pretty out of date. My washer has been rated for ~14L per wash at 45C (normal). The westinghouse (alternative I looked at) was ~16L per wash which seemed typical for many brands I saw in the shop so that figure of 30L is well over-estimated for new dishwashers. These aren't by any means top of the range models but rather low to mid ones. Just FYI. davo2310 covered the rest. Make sure you get a metal tee and wind enough teflon on else it'll leak. When I first did it I did about 5 winds per tape width for the width of the screw but that wasn't nearly enough. I probably did 12 winds at a min. I guess it depends upon the teflon tape you use. As you are winding the teflon tape on make sure you use your fingers after a few winds to bed the tape in around the screw grooves. Don't whatever you do try to unwind the tee even a fraction once the tape is on as you'll develop leaks in all likelyhood down the line. All of it will be available at you plumbing/bunnings shop. It's common stuff and kind of the basics.

[tricky4000]

Use a pipe like this for hot water

http://www.made-in-china.com/image/2f0j00fMgaYkTFRLotM/Hot-Water-Pipe-TCX-O11600150-2-.jpg

Most dishwashers will be fine with hot water, just make sure the hose is good for hot water...else the heat will make plastic parts soften and they will pop off with the pressure.

I couldn't recommend the Fisher and Paykel dish drawer inlet hose enough. Unfortunately I trawlled the internet looking for photos of one and I coudln't find any. This is a single solid mould of plastic and it's interal diameter is designed to limit the pressure to 300kPa which is ideal for a dishwasher.

Dan.

[Spelunx]

a healthy and objective critique, citing examples and valid references is one thing, blatantly wrong and "assumed" misinformation + aggressive flaming is another ...
please accept my apologies spelunx .... pz


No need to apologise, I am not really sure either of you should be getting cranky, the way I read it, you both had valid points...

Anyway, I am off to the local Plumbing Hardware supplies, armed with all the info I need, thanks to you guys...

Cheers!!

:2tsup:

[Smurf]

Why would you want to rinse things before putting them in the dishwasher?

I have a Westinghouse and it works fine. I just put everything in as-is with no scraping, rinsing or anything like that. Only thing I do is tip any chicken bones, corn cobs etc into the bin but that's it. When it's full or I start running out of pans etc then I switch it on - generally 3 times a week.

It uses 13.6 litres per wash according to the official info so I'm using about a third of a sink full of water per day to do all my dishes, pans etc with no troubles. It cleans pans, casserole dishes etc without trouble even if something gets a bit burnt.

My parents have an oldie - a 1981 "Lady Chef". I've repaired it a few times but it's still working fine. Again, no rinsing etc and it gets everything clean, usually just using the "normal" cycle. It does use 35 - 40 litres per wash however, but water isn't scarce here (to the point that the council doesn't even bother with meters) so that's not really a problem.

As for the actual installations, both of these are simply a tee off the existing water and drainage pipes. No problems so far and one of them has been going for 27 years like that.

Both are also connected to the hot water tap rather than cold. I suspect this explains why they clean well without scraping, rinsing etc. The one I have was already installed when I bought the house.

According to the local electricity supplier, the overall cost of hot versus cold is roughly the same. Hot will use more power but it's at a lower rate assuming you have off-peak for hot water. So the actual cost will be similar.

[davo2310]

Yes splenux, everything will be stocked at the shop, sorry for the delay, went bush for the weekend.

[TJAY]

tell ya what ... just ignore last post completely, totally ignorant and don't know what I'm talkin' about. ...
have owned and repaired/installed at least 7 dishwashers over the last 35 years

I've owned and repaired 7 cars, doesn't make me a qualified mechanic! :wink::U:U

Personally I'm a fan, but I've also spent the coin and got a decent one. It specifically says don't rinse in the instructions, and it's far more efficient with water than I am (tend to get myself soaked! :-)

There's a million things I'd rather be doing that washing up, I do the cooking and the cleaning, figure I can get off one job!