Tradies you gotta love them

[Sturdee]

At this point he must have assumed that I was the sweetest SUCKER he had ever met.

The bill comes in: $50 an hour for TWO people for SIX hours plus materials = $600 plus materials.

What would you have done?


I may be hard but I'm not a sucker, like those that allow themselves to be overcharged.

As you had a verbal agreement for $100 for the work to be done I would send them a cheque for the amount of $100 exactly together with a covering letter reminding them of the verbal agreement and if they wished to argue to the contrary I would be willing to hear such arguments in Court and advise them the name and address of my solicitor for service of documents.

It helps having worked for a builder and having had very close contacts with solicitors and barristers. :D


Peter.

[bricks]

The reason you cant find good tradies is because we don't have to adevertise, customers find us via good feed back.

[Frank&Earnest]

I may be hard but I'm not a sucker, like those that allow themselves to be overcharged.

As you had a verbal agreement for $100 for the work to be done I would send them a cheque for the amount of $100 exactly together with a covering letter reminding them of the verbal agreement and if they wished to argue to the contrary I would be willing to hear such arguments in Court and advise them the name and address of my solicitor for service of documents.

It helps having worked for a builder and having had very close contacts with solicitors and barristers. :D


Peter.

Hole in one! I contacted a builder (a fellow member of Lions) who confirmed I had been taken for a ride and suggested not paying and involving Consumer Affairs. I do have some legal training and to avoid dragging out the matter I did just what you suggested. Being a nice guy, though, I made a cheque for $300 plus materials and sent it by registered mail. In other words, nice = 1/2 sucker, no more. :)

[SAISAY]

So someone over the phone told you a job would take 2 hours? Very typical stab in the dark guesstimate.
The job is always "straight" forward isn't it or is it.

The tradesman made phone calls though out the day 20 years ago on a mobile phone? Yeah theyre the ones returning calls to all the whinging clients.

What do those mobile phone calls cost alone. Imagine you being employed for a day.

What sort of hourly rate would you want?

Get over it!:)
So are you suggesting that F&E should have to pay for the tradie to make calls to other clients because he happened to be in F&E's house when the calls were made and, at the same time pay for smokos, 1 hour lunchtime and a young kid standing in a corner watching the older person work?
Get real.
Wolffie

[autogenous]

The guy on the other side of the phone says "you would be better off getting somebody from the ads in the local paper (going rate at the time would have ben less than $100 for the whole job), we charge the princely sum of $50 per hour". We agreed that a couple of hours would be about right for the job, taking into account a bit of cutting and pasting to fit the carpet to the smaller room, so I told them to go ahead.Please accept my apologies. I should have read your scenario with a little more scrutiny.

I read into the statement that "the guy" was a salesman for a carpet company not the actual carpet layer. Ok the layer himself said the job would have taken 2 hours not the sales guy.
He said the job would cost $100 but he charges $50p/h. That is a little bit of misleading and deceptive conduct.

Many tradies have been told by a client that the sales guy said their house will be finished by christmas.


Businesses/tradies that have a good reputation (for customer service) are much more likely to retain customers in the long term regardless of the economic situation.Yep. your right, it will depend on which trade your in a little. Some trades there is a big gap in the customer base where while someone may have had brickwork done on an extension. That client rarely has someone else in the immediate future who needs the same work done. So you do get recommendations but in some trades theres a wider gap of that happening.


If you don't like the business you are in - change jobs, careers, businesses. Otherwise be prepared to reap what you sow.Yeah, not a problem. That has already happened. Of the 4 ex business a partners in the bricklaying industry, all very good tradesman their pride and grade of workmanship has led them to leave the trade because much of the time rates were based on the trades person who hammers the job up hence usually faster. The first business partner, quite a perfectionist now manages a fleet of cars at a university, the second has gone to the painting trade, the third is a building supervisor, the fourth has gone to stone&tiling.
Ive gone to web development, software sales and web based asset management solutions with some stonework in between as a backup. That will change in the next couple of weeks. The first guy won apprentice of the year. He was a perfectionist but at the end of the day you have to make a living. We've won MBA awards for workmanship on the display homes done.
You can see that while pride is great. You have to compete and if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
I wouldn't know where the employment pages section is in the paper and never advertise in the local, daily papers or yellow pages.
I had a workmate ask me for a price last year. He took someone 10% cheaper. The drains had been filled up with cement. The laundry flooded and the floor boards cupped. The boards had to be ripped up. The windows and doors don't particularly open and shut well. While people may know you do a good job. They will take a lower quote quite often.
Last week I did a job on a recommendation of a friend. The owner said there was a 1000 bricks. I did the job but there was only 850 bricks.I knew he was a good client. I gave him my best. He was so happy with the job he gave the money for the 1000 he stated. (An engineer who had already done a 2 week night school bricklaying course).

You learn to read clients by their call. Sometimes you get it wrong. Sometimes you have a loud bricksaw going , sometimes theres a loud bob cat, sometimes theres too much water off the quikcut or dust off the grinder so you leave the phone in the car.
Often you can be too knackered to ring callers back at night and 20 calls a night isn't feasible.

If you ring and no call back. Ring again because the chippie may have the gennie goin or power saws on etc etc

Sure when it quietens down you'll get more call backs. Call em excuses;cell em what you want; it definitely wont be me ringing back. I'm really not in the trade anymore.

Many of the borderline retire guys have said once it slows down they'll be ready for the pension.

I'm just trying to tell it how it is.

[wheelinround]

Wollfie read most of your posts some of the others, including Wongs floor problem the great mathematician couldn't sort this out for himself :rolleyes: some mathematician hope he doesnt master in physics. :p

You were waiting for a delivery why would this be a tradie :? delivery people are usually just that they work for others employee's.

Then the rest of you who are bagging tradies.
Are you bagging tradies who are employed or self employed.:?
There is a large difference.

Those employed DO NOT get paid what your paying for the job they'd be lucky to get paid 1/3rd take home pay. True no excuse for shonky work attitude problems etc but having been there when you righting the invoice or getting people to sign a preprinted one and see the charges it brings :C some times. If these guys are being paid 1/3rd but have to supply their own tools thats less in their pockets and for the family.

Now Tradies who are self employed charge the same rates do the work themselves and keep the cream on top have a single or 2 person partnership him and SWMBO. These rates are set often by Professionals (see below), Trade Organisations all Labor empowered and sanctified :roll: thats why we have such as Trade Practice Dept and ACCC.

AWA's have just been killed so then has any chance of competion between pricing for work done. With rising costs and Union push for higher wages its just going to spiral to which the poor tradie has to keep up. Business are telling staff its getting tougher they are putting up prices because fuel is rising other components are rising but the works are being told NO Pay rises, all the while those above are taking home more and more, staff cuts etc.

I don't see professional people doing it cheaper but they still cut corners, try make the best of what they can get out of a job either self employed or otherwise. These same people are the one calling the shots

Now if you consider who's pricing what ask Professionals, Economists, Accountants, Politicians. Who set the work rosters who sorts deliveries times and destinations.

Open your minds and think

[Wongo]

Wollfie read most of your posts some of the others, including Wongs floor problem the great mathematician couldn't sort this out for himself :rolleyes: some mathematician hope he doesnt master in physics. :p

Who told you I couldn't?:rolleyes:

:D :D :D

[wheelinround]

http://www.woodworkforums.com/showpost.php?p=716723&postcount=36

In answer to your question in the above post.
Why would you expect them to fix it for FREE ?? You stuffed it you fix it :D

Me I would point out the matter and leave the choice to you of course announcing the additional costs.

A support would have to be put in place there is nothing like a person who says its just a 5 mins job.

One thing I hate tho is fixing other peoples stuff ups.





Who told you I couldn't?:rolleyes:

:D :D :D

No one I read it

[Wongo]

You read what?

[Wongo]

You stuffed it you fix it :D

Wasn't the my point. The tradesman stuffed it, the tradesman should fix it.

:? :? :?

[chrisp]

Are you bagging tradies who are employed or self employed.:?
There is a large difference.

I find this a rather strange argument. Are you saying a "home owner" (to borrow someone else's terminology) should expect a lesser service from an employed tradie:? and that they should investigate whether a tradie is self-employed or salaried beforehand:?.

[SAISAY]

Wollfie read most of your posts :p

You were waiting for a delivery why would this be a tradie :? delivery people are usually just that they work for others employee's.



The self employed cabinetmaker was supposed to deliver the benchtops HE had made and install them.
When I rang him at the end of the day he said:
"Oh it was raining so I couldn't deliver. Suppose I should have called you!!!"

Understand why I got upset???

When we were in business as painters and decorators we never treated our customers like that, we never had to advertise because our jobs were mouth to mouth advertising via previous customers.

So don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about, k?
Wolffie

[wheelinround]

The self employed cabinetmaker was supposed to deliver the benchtops HE had made and install them.
When I rang him at the end of the day he said:
"Oh it was raining so I couldn't deliver. Suppose I should have called you!!!" Edit :(( you never mentioned that before, now you have been in the industry so to speak would you load and unload in the rain possible self injury and damage to the owners goods and or employee's.

Ws it raining where you were if so sorry but you have just blown it:? commonsense

Agree totally he should have rang.

Understand why I got upset??? This happens even with Dr's sorry Dr's been called away on an emergency you'll have to come back at another time!!! No phone call and you have spent 2 hrs getting there so dont give me tradies only.

When we were in business as painters and decorators we never treated our customers like that, we never had to advertise because our jobs were mouth to mouth advertising via previous customers.

Wolfie I was the same even tho many occassions i was employed I did the background work here the owner oppertor wouldn't and didn't care.

So don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about, k?
Wolffie

I didnt say you didn't know what you were talking about but you never told anyone else either.:~

You didn't clarify in the first thread and I only skipped through the rest.

Mouth to mouth also kills many business, often from misinformation.

We had a self employed repair guy coming to fix the washing machine he was returning to finish the job. He wasn't well when he came the first time. After a week i tried to ring no answer left messages etc. Finally got on to his swmbo to find he was in hospital with double pnemonia. He was a top fellow who now can no longer work good pricing and excellent work.

So after all this have you yet got your delivery ??

Is it to your liking and has he done a good job??


Wongo like wollfie you didn't fill in the blanks You is the word you used not He, Him They.
why ask if you know the answer:D of course they should Fix it for Free

So what did you do??

Did they fix it for Free???


I find this a rather strange argument. Are you saying a "home owner" (to borrow someone else's terminology) should expect a lesser service from an employed tradie:? and that they should investigate whether a tradie is self-employed or salaried beforehand:?.
No and I stated such.
True no excuse for shonky work attitude problems etc Many self employed know like wolfie knew its there good name thats going to get hurt if they don't.

[SAISAY]

you never mentioned that before, now you have been in the industry so to speak would you load and unload in the rain possible self injury and damage to the owners goods and or employee's.
You call them at the end of the day to find out what is happening and they usually have an excuse for not turning up.
What's so difficult with calling the customer and telling them that they can't make it instead of wasting a whole day?
Ws it raining where you were if so sorry but you have just blown it:? commonsense
No, it was not raining here and it was only raining in the morning where he was but he had another jobto do in the afternoon :(

I didnt say you didn't know what you were talking about but you never told anyone else either.:~
Sorry I didn't spell it out but, talking about a tradie and delivering stuff should have been self explanatory. Seems like everybody else understood.

You didn't clarify in the first thread and I only skipped through the rest.
Weeeelll, you can't blame me for your running with half the story.

Mouth to mouth also kills many business, often from misinformation.

We had a self employed repair guy coming to fix the washing machine he was returning to finish the job. He wasn't well when he came the first time. After a week i tried to ring no answer left messages etc. Finally got on to his swmbo to find he was in hospital with double pnemonia. He was a top fellow who now can no longer work good pricing and excellent work.
When my husband had a heart attack I, despite my worrying about him, rang the customers who had jobs booked and explained that he was ill and we had to postphone the jobs. Customers understood.

So after all this have you yet got your delivery ??
Yes, as I said in another thread, it got delivered but we had to install and treat it ourselves because we couldn't wait any longer to use our kitchen

Is it to your liking and has he done a good job??
Yes, it is what I ordered but, as I said, we had to finish it ourselves.


Please tell me if I have to spell it out even more
Wolffie

[Wongo]

So what did you do??
Did they fix it for Free???


Wheelie, this is what happened.

My sister in-law bought a house a few months ago. Before they moved in, FIL asked me to inspect the house and fix a few things for them.

The air con system was installed a long time ago. The previous probably didn't realise there was a problem. I am sure the installer did.

Anyway, I fixed it a couple of weeks ago.:2tsup:

[wheelinround]

Please tell me if I have to spell it out even more
Wolffie

Yes much better Wolffie no pun intended

Guess we have all had it at some stage.:doh:

[wheelinround]

Wheelie, this is what happened.

My sister in-law bought a house a few months ago. Before they moved in, FIL asked me to inspect the house and fix a few things for them.

The air con system was installed a long time ago. The previous probably didn't realise there was a problem. I am sure the installer did.

Anyway, I fixed it a couple of weeks ago.:2tsup:


:2tsup: top job to I bet Wongo

Uncle has similar installed at his place in the mountains and similar has happened there no support for the floor boards

So its either the same fellow or common practice

[Wongo]

It is pretty dangerous. The unsupported boards are about 20 cm wide. Although it is along the well but children can easily step on it and it will just collapse.

[Geebung]

It is pretty dangerous. The unsupported boards are about 20 cm wide. Although it is along the well but children can easily step on it and it will just collapse.

This used to be a problem in my house...all of the ducted heating vents were cut into the floorboards just as Wongo illustrated. I have since pulled out the ducted heating vents, added some support and filled up the holes. And each hole was a 20 minute job.

The only reason I found out that there was no support was by standing on the vent to close the curtain when all of a sudden I found myself standing on the ground beneath the floor. The nong that installed the vents just nailed them to the boards. The unsupported boards had nothing to hold them in place except the vent! To me that is just negligence...the person installing must have known that it would be unsafe - how could you not?

[Wongo]

To me that is just negligence...the person installing must have known that it would be unsafe - how could you not?

This is the bit that REALLY gets me. How could you just walk away like that.

[madrat]

This is the bit that REALLY gets me. How could you just walk away like that.

Shame that some people's work ethics are just that way and don't appear to have much of a conscience.

People such as this installer probably think that if it doesn't affect them directly, why care (unless you sue them, of course).

The sad thing is, if the same thing happens to the elderly or children, just like it did to Geebung, and they weren't as lucky.... :( (assuming Geebung was 'uninjured?' Hope you were OK :U).

[Geebung]

(assuming Geebung was 'uninjured?' Hope you were OK :U).

Not injured...luckily....that part of the house is only 30 cm off the ground...I did rip my jeans on a nail on the way down though :((.

[madrat]

Good to hear no injuries......
Bugger on the jeans situation though..........:wink:

[oldjonesy]

I believe the general non responsiveness, rudeness and unprofessional conduct from tradesmen is a by-product of the current boom times in construction. They have so much work that they can afford to treat you poorly and you will take it with a smile.

As an indiction of the market, in '93 I wanted to put an extension on my home. I contacted 5 builders and arranged 5 appointments for that week to get quotes. ALL 5 builders turned up, ALL on time, and ALL polite and professional. I received 5 written quotes from all 5 a few weeks later and selected one from that.

Fast forward to 2007 and I again wanted to put an extension on the house I now own. I contacted a number of builders (or should say attempted to contact). About half never returned my calls, a quarter flat out rejected the job saying they were too busy, the rest (5) I made appointments with. Three turned up, one was professional enough but never submitted a quote, one was down right rude and condescending and turned the job down, the other submitted a quote so outrageous that I rejected it out of hand.

There has certainly been an economic shift but there is also a down turn coming where tradies will be lucky to get 3 days work a week and by what I can see most of them will be standing around like this :? wondering what the hell just happened<o></o>

[boban]

There has certainly been an economic shift but there is also a down turn coming where tradies will be lucky to get 3 days work a week and by what I can see most of them will be standing around like this :? wondering what the hell just happened<o></o>

I don't think so. There is no boom at the moment but there is a distinct lack of tradesmen. Everyone wants to work in an office.

[Koala-Man]

I don't think so. There is no boom at the moment but there is a distinct lack of tradesmen. Everyone wants to work in an office.


Disagree - there is a boom in construction generally, if not necessarily in new housing construction in eastern states. Non-dwelling (eg offices, shopping centres) and engineeering (mines, bridges, tollways etc) is creating a lot of demand for building trade skills.

My impression (that's all it is) is that the demise/privatisation/outsourcing of institutions formerly training lots of apprentices (Telecom, railways, etc) may have reduced the supply of various types of tradies as well.

Let's see if this little graph turns out OK..

Gaz.

72256

[oldjonesy]

I don't think so. There is no boom at the moment but there is a distinct lack of tradesmen. Everyone wants to work in an office.

There is undeniably a boom in construction, at least in my little part of the world. Builders get around now like they are rock stars.

Once you can get a plumber or electrician to attend the same day or the next day then things would have settled down a bit.

I find it depends on your perspective as well. Everyone I know who works in an office wants to work outside, and everyone who works outside wants to work in an office :U

The grass is greener :roll: