World Wide Power Off

[weisyboy]

I'd like to know what we actually achieved by doing it. Does anyone really believe it made a difference to anything?

cores i mad a diferance didnt you feel how cold it was thismorning they fixed global warming:D.

[astrid]

wel,
FLAT EARTHERS UNIT !!
you have nothing to lose but your brains

Astrid:D

[Brickie]

wel,
FLAT EARTHERS UNIT !!
you have nothing to lose but your brains

Astrid:D

Give it a rest Astrid.
Nothing was achieved unless you are a brainwashed kid, then you actually saved the earth single handedly. :cool::2tsup:

[astrid]

So non of you guys believe anything is achieved by organised protest.
because thats what it was.

ask Gandi, Lech Welesa, Nelson Mandela, Etc

Astrid

[Brickie]

So non of you guys believe anything is achieved by organised protest.
because thats what it was.



A protest about what, who? :?
Yourself?
You are here burning up electrons telling us not to? :?:?:?

[Calm]

If this exercise did no more than bring peoples attention to a world wide problem then it has been a great sucess. By the simple fact that this is the 106th post on this thread alone proves this point. There were polititians, lord mayors etc making speeches in the dark last night surely that proves that the attention has been drawn to a problem that exists and wont be fixed unless governments and industry does something about it.

To make people aware and talking about global problems has to be a good thing. Next start on world povity.

Most of you people complaining about this idea are probably saving up (accumulating) money or assets that they will leave to their children/decendance (inheritance) so why not leave them a better country to live in.

There are farmers around Australia that are worried about the condition of the soil (salinity problems mostly) that they are going to pass onto the next generation. Water available for farmers kids is another problem especially in the irrigation areas. Doesn't this fit into the same bracket, a farm is no good if there is no rain to grow things (climate change).

Maybe the benifits are a lot deeper than we really realise.

(david gets off soap box)

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I guess it's just as well that it didn't make any real difference, Al.

If it did, then a lot of people would be labelled as eco-terrorists and ASIO'd be working overtime. "Why weren't your lights on at 8PM on Saturday? Have you ever been to..." :roll:

[dazzler]

So non of you guys believe anything is achieved by organised protest.
because thats what it was.

ask Gandi, Lech Welesa, Nelson Mandela, Etc

Astrid

Hi Astrid

please dont compare an hour without light with what Gandhi etc had suffered. This was just another rich western feel good excercise that achieves nothing but, well, feel goodedness:rolleyes:.

Unlike Rod, I believe that global warming is occurring and that man is a huge factor in releasing excess carbon into the atmosphere thus increasing it.

I dont support Earthhour because it trivialises the situation and gives the impression that simple measures will help. It also lets the govt off the hook - "well we had earthhour, were doing our bit"

Did we see the irony in people eating out at restuarants by candlelight......how was thier food cooked (gas or ELECTRICITY), how did they get there (car or bus or train, few would have walked)....see..rubbish.

Sadly we are too stupid a species that can be conned by rubbish like this so that as a community we dont have to make the hard decisions.

Message to Lauren.

Good on you Lauren for taking the future of mankind seriously. I applaud you for wanting to raise awareness of the situation.

You and your friends are the future of mankind.

But remember two things;

1. Just because it feels good doesnt make it right.
2. Independant investigation of truth. Never swallow what your told but put it on a balance beam and determine for yourself where the truth lies.

Cheers

dazzler

[Waldo]

So non of you guys believe anything is achieved by organised protest.
because thats what it was.

ask Gandi, Lech Welesa, Nelson Mandela, Etc

Astrid

:no: absolutely squat, comparing your protest to Ghandi (like Dazzlwer wrote) :no: way there's a comparison there. So now that you've had your one hour crusade, is that it until next year's warm fuzzies, or will you adopt this practice ever on?



:D

[powderpost]

Still can't work out where "Light up for Christmas" fits into the "big picture" of global warming......... :no:
Jim

[Brickie]

Still can't work out where "Light up for Christmas" fits into the "big picture" of global warming......... :no:
Jim

I think the council was being sarcastic to the street that didnt participate. :~

[Christopha]

Anyone who thinks that turning the lights off for an hour has/will save the planet is wearing serious blinkers.
Anyone who thinks that the "Earth hour" exercise didn't help raise awareness of global warming is about as bright as a 25watt bulb.
Anyone who can't see that global warming is now a fact is seriously challenged in the brain cell department!

[silentC]

It's not a question of whether it raises awareness or not, of course it does. It's the fact that it's portrayed as actually doing anything about the problem, rather than just being a token symbolic gesture. The problem is that people will walk away from it thinking they've actually done their bit, when in fact all they have done is contributed to excess clouds of steam in the atmosphere above all the power stations. The coal had already been burnt.

If they could find a way to get people to reduce demand consistently in the long term, then they might be actually making a difference, but how many people left the lights off?

[Waldo]

It's not a question of whether it raises awareness or not, of course it does. It's the fact that it's portrayed as actually doing anything about the problem, rather than just being a token symbolic gesture. The problem is that people will walk away from it thinking they've actually done their bit, when in fact all they have done is contributed to excess clouds of steam in the atmosphere above all the power stations. The coal had already been burnt.

If they could find a way to get people to reduce demand consistently in the long term, then they might be actually making a difference, but how many people left the lights off?

:brava:

[nev25]

What I want to know is what did the CO2 emissions from all the candles that where lit during earth hour did to the ozone layer

[silentC]

This is the type of claim I'm talking about. From the SMH:


Although the event is intended to be symbolic - empowering political leaders to act against climate change and encouraging people to always save energy - the national drop in power use during Earth Hour was the equivalent of taking a large coal-fired power station off-line for an hour.

I don't know much about power generation but everyone I've spoken to who claims to says that it's not possible to just 'switch off' a power station. They work by anticipating demand and excess mechanical force has to be dispersed some other way if the power is not being used. Most coal power stations run the generators by creating steam which powers turbines. The steam is created by heating water by burning coal. If there is more steam than is required for the power being generated and used, the steam is vented. That means the coal was already burnt, so nothing was saved at all.

I've got no problem with the rest of the message, which is a good one. But BS doesn't help anyone and just gives cynics (like me) a reason to criticise them for what is probably otherwise a very beneficial campaign.

[Brickie]

Anyone who can't see that global warming is now a fact is seriously challenged in the brain cell department!

Theres a few of us.....:;

[Christopha]

Theres a few of us.....:;

I rest my case.....

[rod@plasterbrok]

On the contrary Christopha I would say anyone who believes in AGW is a sheep meekly following the crowd who have put their trust in a theory that CANNOT be proven but driven by a media circus where truth cant get in the way of a good story. Picked up on by do good politicians that see the only way to power or stay in power is to follow the mass hysteria.

No doubt they will have an exit strategy when the tide of public opinion changes, as more scientific facts disproving the AGW theory are supported by emperical evidence that can no longer be denied or spun.

This is starting to happen already albeit slowly.

Most effects of AGW claims are based entirely on the premis that AGW WILL happen, giving them a huge scope to let thier imagination go wild, further fueling the media frenzy on "bad news" stories related to AGW.

Your fears will be gone with a few years of global cooling, which by the way will cause Joe Blow to start asking questions and look for answers, which he will find were there all along for those who choose to look.

Mind you it will take a while for some who refuse to believe that AGW might not be true. Then there will be those that will hang on refusing to accept that they were well and truly duped. Others just simply believe what they read in the papers and will easily morph to the other side claiming they never believed in it in the first place.

Lets see what the future brings, increacing global temperatures, stable global temperatures or declining global temperatures. On thing we can be certain of which ever way the temperatures go there will be INCREACED levels of CO2 every year. Nothing is going to prevent co2 levels rising. My tip is slight global cooling for the next 5 years whats yours?

[Calm]

This is starting to happen already albeit slowly.

Most effects of AGW claims are based entirely on the premis that AGW WILL happen, giving them a huge scope to let thier imagination go wild, further fueling the media frenzy on "bad news" stories related to AGW.

Your fears will be gone with a few years of global cooling, which by the way will cause Joe Blow to start asking questions and look for answers, which he will find were there all along for those who choose to look.

rod@plasterbrok

What planet are you from or what are you smoking?

Melbourne has never had water restrictions since 1956 uintil now.

Ballarat is renowned for being the coldest wettest place in Victoria (well nearly) and the lake is dry. The water resavoirs which are in all major waterways are below 1/5th full and havent been over 1/3rd in the past 5 years.

Yes you can say we are going through a dry spell but we have never had a prolonged spell like this before. The snow feilds/season have never been so poor.

Get with the real world and face facts, our kids will not get too hose their concrete paths down like we all used to do.

Wake up and smell the flowers for god sake.

[Gingermick]

What I want to know is what did the CO2 emissions from all the candles that where lit during earth hour did to the ozone layer

That'd be chlorofluorocarbons, not carbon dioxide :sorry:

[weisyboy]

they come from airasole not candles,

i just had an idea if we all stop breathing there will be less co2 going into the atmasphere and global worming will stop :2tsup:.

[Lignum]

Ballarat is renowned for being the coldest wettest place in Victoria (well nearly) and the lake is dry. The water resavoirs which are in all major waterways are below 1/5th full and havent been over 1/3rd in the past 5 years.
.

Its the 3rd worst drought in Ballarat since records have been kept.

In 1944 the lake was bone dry and the Seppo Army who were based at Victoria Park were bored and wanted to concrete it. How bizzare.

[Calm]

Its the 3rd worst drought in Ballarat since records have been kept.

In 1944 the lake was bone dry and the Seppo Army who were based at Victoria Park were bored and wanted to concrete it. How bizzare.

i said 1956 cos i wasnt here before then:D

[Lignum]

i said 1956 cos i wasnt here before then:D

Either was i:) But it shows the weather has been drier in the past in Ballarat. And as i understand it, global warming flatlined in 1998 and in the last 18 months has started a minute reversal. Even NASA said the oceans are starting to cool. :?

[Groggy]

Not sure how you could even begin to compare then to now. What were the water storages like at the time? What was the population, what was the water consumption per person vs availability of stored water and what is it now :? . Very hard to compare accurately (any of this stuff).

I reckon there are simply too many of us, we're worse than rabbits. Knock a couple of billion on the head or toss 'em into the river in hessian bags, that should slow things down for a bit. :rolleyes::p:D

[rod@plasterbrok]

I dont suppose population growth on top of a prolonged dry spell has anything to do with water shortages?

Last year was a great snow season (I was there). This year shaping up to be even better!

See you on the slopes.

[Lignum]

Not sure how you could even begin to compare then to now. What were the water storages like at the time? What was the population, what was the water consumption per person vs availability of stored water and what is it now :? . Very hard to compare accurately (any of this stuff).


67/68 was the last major drought in Ballarat (at its peak) and because of it they built the Gong (Lal Lal Reservoir) to supply Ballarat and Geelong. I vaguley remember because my Dad was in charge of building the pipeline from the Gong to Ballarat.

Ballarats population has gone tropo since then, and the capacitys are now at 8.5% (average of all the reservoirs) but alls not gloom, as the Goldfields Pipeline opens in 12 weeks to top up the White Swan. Rain is still needed, but the long term forcasters are predicting its not to far away.

[Calm]

67/68 (at its peak) was the last major drought in Ballarat, and because of it they built the Gong (Lal Lal Reservoir) to supply Ballarat and Geelong. I vaguley remember because my Dad was in charge of building the pipeline from the Gong to Ballarat.

Ballarats population has gone tropo since then, and the capacitys are now at 8.5% (average of all the reservoirs) but alls not gloom, as the Goldfields Pipeline opens in 12 weeks to top up the White Swan. Rain is still needed, but the long term forcasters are predicting its not to far away.

Ballarats water storage has overflowed nearly every year but for the last 7 years it is going down not up.

The thought that Ballarat needs more resavouirs is false as the present ones dont fill. This is not due to the extra users but mainly due to the fact the rainfall has been so low for such a prolonged period.

[Lignum]

Ballarats water storage has overflowed nearly every year but for the last 7 years it is going down not up.

The thought that Ballarat needs more resavouirs is false as the present ones dont fill. This is not due to the extra users but mainly due to the fact the rainfall has been so low for such a prolonged period.

But the 67/68 drought (as i said, at its peak, just like we are peaking now) started in the early 60`s no different to the time frame now.

Imagine back then if all the crazys had come out and protested about building the Gong because their was no water to fill it? And the pussy Government caved in just like Bracksey kept doing? It was Bolte who had the vision and commonsence and agreed. Thank God, otherwise Ballarat would be in total crisis.

And shame about the billions and billions of liters of water that flow from the Otways into the ocean isnt it. Could really use that. Maybe Brumby will show his big balls and agree to a new dam, because believe it ot not, it is going to rain again just like it did after the big one in the Rat after 67/68

[nev25]

That'd be chlorofluorocarbons, not carbon dioxide :sorry:

So Burning candles emit Chlorofluorocarbons
No wonder I failed Secondary School Science

[Christopha]

IncreaSe is how the word is spelt Rod.

Look around you mate, get out of the city and have a good look around at the countryside, check out the Murray, look at the ice fields and glaciers of the world, just open your eyes and your mind

[rod@plasterbrok]

Spelling was never a strong ponit. LOL

I do know that the ice fields are increasing thanks to some cold winters. Funny how they refreeze when it gets cold!!

I don't know if it is me that needs to open my mind here Christopha. See my post above. I guess the Murray will never recover when it rains again eh? What are you going to point to next time the Murray floods? Or is a flooding Murray river a thing of the past? Really.

[ian]

I don't know much about power generation but everyone I've spoken to who claims to says that it's not possible to just 'switch off' a power station. They work by anticipating demand and excess mechanical force has to be dispersed some other way if the power is not being used. Most coal power stations run the generators by creating steam which powers turbines. The steam is created by heating water by burning coal. If there is more steam than is required for the power being generated and used, the steam is vented. That means the coal was already burnt, so nothing was saved at all.As I understand it Silent, you're mostly right

what I think happened when the lights were turned off is that the "peaking" plants (hydro or gas turbine) were already off because it was a Saturday night and the coal fired stations just continued going flat out.
Generating output was varied by varying the electrical current feeding the electro magnets inside the generators which in turn varies the power output.

as I said earlier ZILCH impact apart from feeling warm and fuzzy

the acid test is how many lights were turned off as not needed today?


ian

[Lignum]

The organiser of this lights out rubbish here in Melbourne told us today in the paper that "2 million" Vctorians turned the power off, and it was the equivalent of taking 64.000 cars off the road for an hour. What an idiot.

[rod@plasterbrok]

The organiser of this lights out rubbish here in Melbourne told us today in the paper that "2 million" Vctorians turned the power off, and it was the equivalent of taking 64.000 cars off the road for an hour. What an idiot.

And they wonder why their claims about AGW are questioned:U

And rightly so.

[Sturdee]

The organiser of this lights out rubbish here in Melbourne told us today in the paper that "2 million" Vctorians turned the power off, and it was the equivalent of taking 64.000 cars off the road for an hour. What an idiot.

Apparently the black balloons Victoria saved is the equivalent output in black balloons one australian puts out in one year.

So if only one victorian couple used the hour to make love by candlelight and were succesfull in conceiving then that result would cancel out all the savings and cost the taxpayers another baby bonus as well.:D

Peter

[Waldo]

The organiser of this lights out rubbish here in Melbourne told us today in the paper that "2 million" Vctorians turned the power off, and it was the equivalent of taking 64.000 cars off the road for an hour. What an idiot.

And the :smack: up-for-hire protesters wonder why we think it was a load of crock!

[rod@plasterbrok]

Last night on the ABC I caught part of an interview with Derek Guille and some environmentalist talking about how Global Warming was affecting the sex life of sea creatures.
<O:p</O:p
She was saying that sea the sex of sea turtles was determined by the water temperature, and that global warming was having a profound effect by creating more female turtles. As global warming is increasing at a rapid rate soon there will only be females and they will have no males to mate with.:o
<O:p
She went on to say how the penguins of Antartica were suffering because of the broken up ice due to global warming. She claims the penguins have got further to swim to find a mate and have sex. Therefore they were to tired to have proper sex and only had quickies that was affecting breeding.
<O:p
Now I kid you not she was saying this with a “straight face” and Derek Guille was taking it all in.
<O:p
Can these people really be serious?

[silentC]

I don't know about the penguins but the bit about sea turtles is actually true in so much as the gender of offspring is determined by the temperature, with higher temperatures giving rise to more females. However I believe it is the temperature of the sand in the nest, and not the sea water, that determines it. I suppose the temperature of the sand is linked to the water temperature, so it might well be fact.