Need advice on dishwashers..

[montiee]

Well given this place is full of renovators I'm hoping I can get a bit of first hand advice based on practical experience from some of you.

I'm looking to spend around $800 for a dishwasher. Two options have caught my eye:

1) Westinghouse SB908WK (See http://www.westinghouse.com.au/product/display/model/SB908WK). Choice article seemed to recommend this one for the price. Can get for ~$690. [Edit:Potentially might go for the SB916WK model as I can't seem tell whether the 908 has drying capability). The 916 is ~$750]

2) Bosch SGS53E72AU (See http://www.boschappliances.com.au/content.asp?document_id=437&category_id=48). This one however is slightly over budget at $880 and with extended warranty it's getting a bit out of hand.

Has anyone owned and installed either one and can tell me their practical experiences with it and how well they work as well as reliability.

The bosch is starting to get away from me in terms of budget and is close to $200 more so it's the least preferred given the additional cost and the good review operation wise of the Westinghouse. Is it really worth that much given I'll be taking 5 year extended warranty out no matter which unit I buy?

I plan to use the unit once a week as I'm currently single. Won't be pre-rinsing just scraping and placing in dishwasher until it's full and ready for a load. Don't care about energy or water efficiency. Won't be using it that much to justify the extra cost and given there is a litre of water difference in usage between a 2.5 star vs 4 star washer I'm not too bothered. I do however want something that will wash well without having to put it through twice given that dishes may be sitting there for up to 5 days. Also needs to dry reasonably. Need to check the 908WK can, doesn't seem to mention it now that I look, hmm.

Opinions anyone?


One final thing. I notice dishwashers come as integreated and non-integrated. Can the non integrated be installed so it looks like part of the kitchen just like the "integrated variety can?. Just want to know for future when I update the kitchen. At the moment it has to be non-integrated and staning along since the old kitchen has no place for it. Probably put it in the laundry for the time being..
TIA!

PS: No recommendations of F&P. Although I may appreciate your good experiences I've had nothing but trouble with the brand on a couple of appliances I've owned and I've seen their dishdraw reliability first hand at work :doh: Miele are also obviously out of budget no matter how good they are.

[memphis]

I have a bosch unit and if you can stretch the budget i personally think its the way to go.

5 yrs with not one problem.

[Iain]

Blanco, got one from Greys (Grays) auctions 5 years ago, fraction of new cost, no problems still going as new and craps all over locally made rubbish, and came with a 12 month warranty as it was a discontinued model not secondhand.
Try the auctions and save a fortune.

[montiee]

Try the auctions and save a fortune.

I've tried auctions in the past. Been a bit of mixed bag really. Trouble is that dishwashers are some of the most unreliable appliances you can buy these days so I'd rather have a 5 year warranty behind me. I guess it all comes down to how much difference in price for the same good there is. Everytime I've gone it hasn't been that much of a diff or the good performs poorly based on user opinions online which is why it didn't sell in the first place at the shop. Sometime you are right you do get discontinues items that are decent but it's not that often.

Saying that I might stop into Greys and Laws see whats on offer and ask around about the average price things go for...

[montiee]

So anyone else have comments?.

I would have thought at least a few of you out there would have first hand experience with the given units.. Don't be shy. If the unit is crap I don't mind the feedback and if it's good and you are happy then that great too..

Seems bosch has one postive vote. I'll head back to the shops and have another look at the units. Will also visit the auctions and have a look whats on offer but not holding my breath but there could be the odd surprise.

[Stuart]

I know it isn't th model you are looking at, but I have a Westinghouse Freestyle 920. I dislike it so much that I will be difficult to convince to buy another.

The difference in cost between the two units you are looking at is insignificant. I know, every dollar counts, but at a stretch now, you'll be much much happier in the long run if you get the right unit.

I have no idea if the Bosch is the right unit or not, just saying in time, that price difference is a minor consideration.

[q9]

Dad used to repair dishwashers etc...don't think he has a high opinion of Westinghouse. Might be re-badged Simpson? Can't remember.

I think he has an Asko now, after leaving behind a near 20 year old Miele in the old house.

Bosch rarely, if ever, make rubbish.

If you are really on a budget, buy a base model Simpson. It'll be noisy, but at least you'll be able to get parts for it, and everyone can work on them. F&P are only good while they're working :) Throw away prospect if something goes bad outside of warranty. Most LG stuff comes with 3 year warranty, and we know people that have had good runs out of their dishwashers/washing machines/etc. In fact I have an LG fridge and an LG front loader - no problems so far.

Otherwise find the money to buy something decent. You will not regret it.

[Iain]

With Greys auctions they dispose of the last of the discontinued models, they are not warranty returns or secondhand units.
Blanco release a new model range and discount the last models to the retailers.
What are left over go to the auctions.
I find that a lot of builders attend and I never bid, just let the builders bid as there are probably a dozen or so of the same unit, when he wins he will specify how many he wants then you put your hand up for the left overs, as many as you want.
A builder may take 6 units leaving another four or five then the floor is open to whoever gets their hand up the quickest.
I did our whole kitchen in brand new Blanco and got change out of $2k, not bad for a dishwasher, wall oven, hot plate and sink.

[Gypsy]

Whatever type of machine you decide on, my suggestion would be to list your requirements and then match machine, price, warranty etc.
Water useage, pots, two drawers etc., would be part of my needs. Yours of course may differ. But when looking at something like this, I tend to list my requirements first.

[SCC]

My parents had a Bosch which did sterling service for a family of 6 for over 20 years, being used 2 or 3 times a day. It finally died and was replaced with something like a Hoover or Westinghouse. Mum and dad gave that one about 8 months before throwing it out in disgust and replacing it with an Asko which is still going strong, years down the track, and now dealing with extended family, partners and grandchildren.

Me personally, I have a Miele. I'm single, I use it once a week, sometimes once a fortnight. I never scrape anything, I just stick it in the machine. It's moved house twice and continues to motor along beautifully and silently. I never have re-wash dishes after taking them out of the Miele and I really mean never. It's fantastic. If you can save a couple of hundred extra for the Miele, I'd recommend it without hesitation.

The company that I work for used to have an industrial Fisher and Paykel dishdraw thing in the kitchen which kept breaking down. When they remodelled the kitche, they replaced it with an industrial Miele which has been problem-free.

Otherwise go for the Bosch.

[montiee]

My parents had a Bosch which did sterling service for a family of 6 for over 20 years, being used 2 or 3 times a day.
<snip>
Otherwise go for the Bosch.
Yeh got a feeling might spend a bit more and get the bosch. Wonder if the extended warranty is even worth it given the raving reviews for bosch...


Whatever type of machine you decide on, my suggestion would be to list your requirements and then match machine, price, warranty etc.

Trouble is I've never owned a dishwasher (nor any of my family) so it's tough to know what my requirements are past washing dishes, cups etc :D

One thing I do know is that I want it to wash well and be able to wash dishes that may have been sitting there for a few days while I get enough dishes together to make the wash worthwhile. I don't want to pre-rinse everything by hand manually. To me it's a waste of time..

I think it's like anything. Once you've owned one you realise whats important and what you are missing but until then it's tough to know what you don't know :)..

[Vernonv]

Don't buy an LG dishwasher ... utter cr&p. We've had nothing but trouble from ours. Get error messages on the machine that LG haven't heard of???

We also have an LG washing machine, but it has been really good ... go figure.

Hey, anyone want to buy an LG dishwasher ... one careful owner ... going cheap?:rolleyes:

[petersemple]

We have a Westinghouse. We won't be buying another one. The wheels that hold in the top basket have broken several times. The door no longer opens straight - it has a downward angle that makes emptying the bottom basket a problem. The spray arm on the top basket can't be removed to clean it. I have asked Westinghouse about that and they say it won't ever need cleaning because the filter design means that no crud will ever get into it. They are wrong. To clean the thing out you have to remove the entire basket and try and manuover it in the bathtub or out in the backyard to clean it. Westinghouse, Electrolux and Simpson are all made by the same company and from what I have seen use similar designs. At least it is still running, which I guess is something. It is only a few years old though.

Peter

[rodney]

We have an Asko diskwasher that just keeps on working and working, was a lot more expensive than the cheaper Asian diswashers. I never rinse anything (have no idea where all the gunk goes).

My wife gets annoyed with the time it takes to wash as it has a bunch of eco friendly options. One thing you may have to consider is how long you are willing to wait for it to complete a cycle.

[Chesand]

We have had a Bosch (can't see a model no) for a few years with no problems at all. It was recommended by the salesman as he had one himself.
Easy to install yourself

[montiee]

One thing you may have to consider is how long you are willing to wait for it to complete a cycle.

Don't really care to be honest. I'll never understand those that obsess over whether a machine with no human input takes 30 min to do a job or takes 1h30m to do a job as long as it's done properly. Of course if you are in a commercial environment then thats another story. No matter which way I look at it as long as I'm not doing the dishes I can watch tv/read/listen to music etc so it's all infinitely better :lol:

To everyone:
I'm more and more inclined to go bosch the way it's heading. I was kind of worried about the plastic trays in the westinghouse and the plastic arms in the first place but was going to overlook it if there was an overwhelming positive response but doesn't seem to be that way..

Heading down to the auction to see what they have available but like all auctions one can't be picky so depending upon what on offer it'll probably be a waste of time since I'm being picky.

[q9]

Going on past experience, extended warranty on this level of machine (Bosch, Miele, et al) will be a waste of money.

Probably should point out that the quality of the powder/tablet you use is quite important to the end result too. Was ready to throw the Simpson that came free with our house, as dishes and cups came out looking filthy. Changed to Aldi's 5 in 1 tablets and the difference is astounding. I mean, it isn't something you'd normally get excited about, but they really do work!

[rsser]

Have had good runs with the current Asko and the earlier Kleenmaid.

That said, anyone in the market for whitegoods, or any consumer goods for that matter, would find $20 well spent on a 3 month sub to Choice online.

Fisher and Paykel usually test among the best btw.

[montiee]

Going on past experience, extended warranty on this level of machine (Bosch, Miele, et al) will be a waste of money.

Yet to stretch the budget I'm going to have to sacrifice the extended warranty bit..not sure if thats a good thing


Changed to Aldi's 5 in 1 tablets and the difference is astounding. I mean, it isn't something you'd normally get excited about, but they really do work!
Yeh heard good things about the aldi stuff. Doesn't look expensive anyway and with a load a week one box will last me 40 weeks so it's probably more economical than what I'm currently using in the sink in terms of dishwashing costs :)





That said, anyone in the market for whitegoods, or any consumer goods for that matter, would find $20 well spent on a 3 month sub to Choice online.

Already have. Their last report recommended
Westinghouse SB916WK (A) * $949
AEG 40760 (A) * $1099
AEG F86080UM (A) (B) $1599
Westinghouse SB908WK (A) * $849

Then you look at buyers who would buy the same brand and bosch is 93% while westinghouse is 80% so even though it's supposedly better it's 13% less likely to be bought again than a bosch. Reliability is also with the bosch at 95% vs 89% of westinghouse. Of course none of these stats tell you which models people bought and whether reliability has increased or decreased since they bought it.

I'm not sure their findings correlate these days to the best overall product when all is weighed up. The test seem a little too simple. One washer may be able to handle a particular setup better than another but we aren't all going to be washing avacado off plates all the time and if your dishwasher breaks down after 5 years it's really annoying no matter how well it washed up to that point.:)

General comment:
I went looking at the auctions, both grey and laws in Sydney (wetherill park area) and came back less than impressed. Greys no longer have the traditional auctions. They now do online only for those who didn't know. Must of recently changed as I remember heading there 6 months ago and the traditional auction was still going. The auction sites are just pickup places now. Very disappointing as online auctions never save you any real money since it requires little effort to log in vs attend in person so more bidding occurs and factoring the 12.5% buyers premium ontop and the reduced warranty from 2 years to 6 months (sometimes nothing) it's a waste of time.

Laws was rubbish as usual. Dishlex with a couple of scratches had a buy it now price of $500 +12.5% buyers permium with 6 months warranty. In the Shops I pay $625 (with a bit of bargaining) and get 2 years...pft. Yes the auction may get a slightly cheaper price but if they don't get to reserve they don't sell and reserve is usually ~$50 less than the buy it now price in most instances from experience. Not only that but talked to a couple of guys who admitted that most machines are seconds which have been repaired. Waste of money wrt whitegoods these places.


I miss the days of real auctions and real bargains when stock used to be auctioned because it was an old model or they didn't sell and the seller needed room in the warehouse. Things where still in their cartons sealed. These days with delivery straight from the manufacturer it no longer happens. It seems hardly worth the effort to turn up these days..

(PS: this is not a dig at the guy who suggested auctions. I really appreciate all the input It's sound advice if you can find the right type of auction but in Sydney it's becoming rare with more and more people moving to online auctions and prices becoming uncompetitive unless you think HN is the cheapest you can get when quoting price :lol: I only bought it up just so others are careful wrt pricing and seconds that auctions tend to sell).

[rsser]

At the risk of telling you again something you already know, if you're a subscriber to Choice then they'll run around and get a best price for you.

You first tell them what you've been quoted and they work to beat it.

Saved me hundreds on a split system a/c.

As for their tests: of course they can't test everything. And the repeat purchase data often involves small numbers of respondents. So it's just part of the picture. But at least they're independent. How often do you see a major car mag say at the end of a test 'avoid this like the plague!'?

[gyro]

The SB980WK is the new unit made in Italy, looks to be a good unit. there is a recall on re the main control printed cct board.(if the unit is between xx and xx serial nos. check the electrolux webb site for the nos.) If it comes in the recall range it is only a simple fix and all is well. Other than that it looks to be a lot better than the old units. I would certainly have it on my shopping list. Also it is serviced by electrolux themselves. Bosch are ok but not as good as the older units.

[montiee]

At the risk of telling you again something you already know, if you're a subscriber to Choice then they'll run around and get a best price for you.

You first tell them what you've been quoted and they work to beat it.

They've never been able to bargain down as far as I have in person from my limited experience. Sure they save you some money if you aren't really good at dealing with sales people and negotiating though by the time I end up with it the price is the best.

I end up picking up my knowledge while going to a few places to get an idea of the product and while there see how low they can go. Then after a couple of weeks I have a rough idea and drop the price by another hundred and usually get it albeit with the usual drama's, that is, no thats too low we can't do it you got a great deal you should take it and as I thank them and walk start walking out they realise the games over and they either take the price right then and there or lose the sale. Most times they take the sale, especially in large appliances where movement isn't that fluid and sales ops are limited.

[scottyb]

I have had a Bosch for the last 11 years and it has never missed a beat. Advice from kitchen maker, spend more on the dishwasher as it is the appliance that cops the most use everyday.

[patty]

We have a Kleenmaid unit and have it installed for a little over 7 months now and the motherboard went on her just last week (its all electronic) luckily its still under warranty but this unit was suppose o be the best of the best on the market as far as energy and water savings awards but as far as Iam concrened Kleenmaid are way overpriced the service and communication skills so far from them is utter garbage and almost non existent! For the money we outlayed we should have bought a Miele or as others have stated Asko are pretty darn good also...

[montiee]

energy and water savings awards but as far as Iam concrened Kleenmaid are way overpriced the service and communication skills so far from them is utter garbage and almost non existent! For the money we outlayed we should have bought a Miele or as others have stated Asko are pretty darn good also...

Yeh I'm a bit weary of the water saving/energy saving machines in general. I tend not to guage how good a machine is just by those. Usually it's only a litre or two difference between 2.5 stars and 4 stars but if that saving results in crappy results then it's a waste of time. I skipped kleenmaid as a friend of mine had problems like you did and I've been hearing they've gone downhill and aren't what they once were.

Hope I'm doing the right thing going the bosch (not the lowest base model but close enough :) ). The more expensive models have a few extra feature but like anything they add complexity which equates to more chance of failure. Programme wise doesn't seem like it's worth an extra $300 for them. I'm happy with my bosch frontloader but I've only had it for 2 months when the old top loader packed it in (F&P :roll:)

[cgibb]

im looking at a delonghi dishwasher, are they just rebadged something else, any1 got any reviews

[q9]

We have a Kleenmaid unit and have it installed for a little over 7 months now and the motherboard went on her just last week (its all electronic) luckily its still under warranty but this unit was suppose o be the best of the best on the market as far as energy and water savings awards but as far as Iam concrened Kleenmaid are way overpriced the service and communication skills so far from them is utter garbage and almost non existent! For the money we outlayed we should have bought a Miele or as others have stated Asko are pretty darn good also...

I used to work at their head office. I bet if you knew the pool of manufacturers they use you'd probably be fairly disappointed, especially given the price you would have paid. I'm not saying they're "bad" products, but I personally believe you can do better for the money, you just have to live without the 10 year warranty that you are ultimately paying a premium for.*


* of course, I could just be a bitter ex-employee so all statements are to be treated as opinion, not fact:wink:

[rsser]

Hmm, we had one; worked OK except for not drying completely; and lasted OK.

But when you see how often the local retailer discounts the brand .. makes you wonder.

Now have an Asko. Works fine except the bottom tray wheels have a tendency to fall off.

[GraemeCook]

I worked for a company with a very large number of rental apartments and houses. We routinely bought reconditioned white goods for the units. They were priced at about about 60% of the wholesale price of comparable new goods; all rubber parts, bearings, seals, and worn parts had been replaced, fully tested, carcases re-sprayed and looked like new. Came with 180 day warranty - which we rarely had to use.

About 15-20 years ago we made a corporate decision never to buy Email products - Simpson, Westinghouse, Kelvinator, etc - as their reliability was crap and their parts service was abysmal.

Although not always available reconditioned, we found that generally the best products were German or Scandinavian made - Miele, Bosch, Asko, etc. And the stuff we bought was used in rental units where they sometimes were not treated as well as you would if you owned them.

Cheers

Graeme

[TJAY]

Another vote for Asko (if you can't afford the Miele) - we got one for about $900 and there's no comparison to lesser machines (that weren't much cheaper) and its just the basic model.

Don't think I'd consider anything else again (can't justify $2000+ for a Miele just because it has a 20 year life vs 10-15 for Asko, I'm not going to be in that house for 20 years!)

[Buggermedumplings]

We have a Miele- Great if you love your dishes wet! Numerous parts changed on it over last 2 years and should be much, much better for a nearly $2K unit. Only reason we haven't changed it is that it's fully integrated and I'd have to get another cabinet door made for it.

[Imp]

We just bought a new dishwasher - have only been running it for just over a week, but it's great. Don't rinse anything and it all comes out sparkling (and dry) But I can't tell you anything about it's longevity.

It's a Vennuto by Technika, got it from the Good Guys for $469, it's flat fronted stainless steel. Only the basic functions but I always use the same setting anyway...

[q9]

Completely ignoring my own advice...

Last weekend we bought a dishwasher from Aldi. Normally $389 this was marked down to $299 :) Never had an issue returning anything I didn't like, so I took the plunge.

It is MUCH quieter than the old Simpson it replaced, and does quite a good job. Dishes come out clean and it is very simple to use. A winner for the price.