Bathroom Drainage

[Ozpom]

I am about to lay some cement sheeting over a timber floor, i got advice on the correct sheeting to use, but have to idea how to create a drainage slope to the outlet in the floor.

If i was rendering a floor, no problem, but laying sheeting directly to the floor, how do i create one? Any ideas out there?

[arms]

the ac sheet is only to isolate your tiles from the timber floor below ,if you want a fall to the waste you will have to screed a bed over the ac sheet

[brettsyoung]

I have exactly the same issue ahead of me ozpom. Several people have told me not to worry too much about a slope to a drain. I'm going to make sure my floor is level and just put the drain in the middle. If there's a flood it'll drain out. Small amounts of water sitting around for short periods of time aren't too much of drama. Of course I might be talking complete rubbish...hopefully someone here will confirm this (or otherwise) as a viable option.

Alternatively, someone gave me the great idea (although I'm not going to do it) of slightly sloping the whole floor using spacers under the villaboard and have a drain along one wall.

I'm not keen on the hassle of laying a scree (which I expect I would probably bugger-up).

cheers, Brett

[Ozpom]

Would have to agree with you Bretts, would only mess up any screeding, probably end up sloping away if anything!

[sports fan]

I have exactly the same issue ahead of me ozpom. Several people have told me not to worry too much about a slope to a drain. I'm going to make sure my floor is level and just put the drain in the middle. If there's a flood it'll drain out. Small amounts of water sitting around for short periods of time aren't too much of drama. Of course I might be talking complete rubbish...hopefully someone here will confirm this (or otherwise) as a viable option.

Alternatively, someone gave me the great idea (although I'm not going to do it) of slightly sloping the whole floor using spacers under the villaboard and have a drain along one wall.

I'm not keen on the hassle of laying a scree (which I expect I would probably bugger-up).

cheers, Brett

i hope you have home and contents insurance, but then again they wouldnt pay you out if they find youve built your bathroom floor without fall!

guys ya gotta put fall in your bathrooms :o

[autogenous]

Several people have told me not to worry too much about a slope to a drain.

Check Australian Standards and the repercussions :)

[Ashwood]

In practical terms as well. If you don't have a fall, you will get ponding and associated issues - potential leaks, deterioration of joints, etc.

I intentionally make sure the fall is MORE than the typical falls done in toilets, esp. for shower areas.

[chromis]

Small amounts of water sitting around for short periods of time aren't too much of drama.

The previous owner of our house did our bathroom floor which doesn’t drain properly. It's really annoying and stains the tiles over time. I would give it a really good go to get the level right if I was you.

[sports fan]

I have exactly the same issue ahead of me ozpom. Several people have told me not to worry too much about a slope to a drain. I'm going to make sure my floor is level and just put the drain in the middle. If there's a flood it'll drain out. Small amounts of water sitting around for short periods of time aren't too much of drama. Of course I might be talking complete rubbish...hopefully someone here will confirm this (or otherwise) as a viable option.

Alternatively, someone gave me the great idea (although I'm not going to do it) of slightly sloping the whole floor using spacers under the villaboard and have a drain along one wall.

I'm not keen on the hassle of laying a scree (which I expect I would probably bugger-up).

cheers, Brett

hey sorry i didnt read yer post properly the first time, yea could do that, put packing on top of the joists under ya fc sheets to get the fall and use a shower channel.. they are quite expensive if you get them custom made but you can get these ones made by mizu available through reece a bit cheaper(standard sizes). Will give your bathroom a real classy look, this system is usually done if your laying big tiles in a small area and the rqd fall cant be achieved

[vlv8vic]

can i add a question to this, our old bathroom floors are tassie oak with lino over the top. Come summer i'll be pulling the lino off, putting down 6mm cement sheet and tiling over it. Now, as there has never been a floor drain or any form of fall do i have to put one in (plumber) or can i simply tile the floor that has survived the last 40 years?
got an uncle that will take care of waterproofing, room has vanity, dunny and shower over tub.
Help appreciated.

[wonderplumb]

A renovation may warrant you putting one in, in a bathroom a floorwaste can only be omitted where there is a WC and a Basin only and these two fixtures must have internal overflows. It doesnt have to be connected to the sewer, you can run a dry floorwaste which simply is a normal grate, reduced to 2" under the floor and run out so it just pokes out past the external wall with a flap valve on it.

[brettsyoung]

Had the plumber in yesterday and he said the bathroom floor waste was optional. I said I wanted an emergency flood drain and he suggested the isolated flap-drain mentioned by wonderplumb. Wasn't worried about fall (floor is level), and advised against laying a mud floor on timber because it will eventually cause the tiles to crack (but maybe that's a cold climate thing). After talking to two plumbers and a builder ozpom I think it's safe to assume it is possible to get away without laying a screed :2tsup:.

cheers
Brett

[vlv8vic]

thanks wonderplumb. seems an interesting one. some people saying it doesn't need to be there and you telling me it 'may' need to be there. I really don't want one there. 40 years with no problem i doubt with improvements to the place that it'll warrant needing one now.
Are you a plumber? What makes it possible to go without one? keeping in mind there isn't one there and hasn't been on there for the life of the house....

[wonderplumb]

thanks wonderplumb. seems an interesting one. some people saying it doesn't need to be there and you telling me it 'may' need to be there. I really don't want one there. 40 years with no problem i doubt with improvements to the place that it'll warrant needing one now.
Are you a plumber? What makes it possible to go without one? keeping in mind there isn't one there and hasn't been on there for the life of the house....
Mate go for it, a lot of older homes where built with only a bath in the bathroom, with bits and pieces added on here and there, creature comforts such as an indoor flushing toilet!
It may have something to do with victorian legislation over the national code, each state has a seperate code of practice.
One of the houses I grew up in in the central west had carpet in the bathroom, and a lot of older homes in colder climates did have.
I was simply refering to the national code (AS 3500) where a bathroom shall (when the code says shall it means must) have a floor waste, UNLESS it is a powder room type of set up with a toilet and hand basin only and these two fixtures must have internal over-flows, but a floor waste is till desirable in these instances.

[vlv8vic]

LOL I can't imagine carpet in a bathroom. Our place has always had the shower over bath, toilet and basin in teh one room without a floor waste. Any places i rented were the same so it must be something to do with the Victorian codes. These things are never meant to be easy to find out are they!?!

[silentC]

I don't see the point of waterproofing if you're not putting in a floor waste, because if anything leaks, the water has nowhere to go but up over the waterproofing and into non-waterproofed areas (probably out under the door I suppose if your floor is flat). I would put one in. Just a dry waste is all you need.

I prefer to have a fall but as far as I know, it's not mandatory - the few times I've done bathrooms it has been put to me as optional, put it that way. Doesn't take a lot to put one in though and I reckon it's well worth doing.

BTW the last house I lived in had carpet in all three bathrooms. Two of them had floor wastes too. People do the strangest things.

[wonderplumb]

Fall isnt such a scary thing, if you have a floor waste, you have the floor falling towards it, and since the majority of floors are tiled on a screeded cement bed, its common practice.
And where a LOT of people come unstuck trying to save a buck is leaving out details such as this, which more often than not ends up having to be ripped out and done again, properly.:wink:

[autogenous]

Is there a fall ratio specified in the Australian Standards or Building codes?

[juan]

In South Australia there is a recommendation in the Minister’s Specification SA F1.7.


2.0 Floor Drainage
2.1 Floor waste
Notwithstanding the requirements of the Waterworks Act 1932, the Sewerage Act 1929 the
requirements of AS 3500 and the SA Variations and/or Additional Provisions to the National
Plumbing and Drainage Code AS 3500, the following applies;
(a) Drainage of a wet area floor to a floor waste shall be provided to the following
(i) a bathroom; or
(ii) areas adjacent baths and spas (including the floor under a free standing bath);
or a
(iii) room containing a shower; or a
(iv) room containing a sanitary fixture.
(b) A bathroom floor or floor of a room containing a shower, may drain to a shower waste
within a shower area, provided the water can drain from the wet area floor to the
shower waste without ponding.
(c) Drainage of a wet area floor to a floor waste is not required when all the fixtures within
a room are provided with in-built or attached overflow protection, connected to the
sanitary fixture drainage.
2.2 Falls to floors
Unless stated otherwise in this Specification the floor must drain such that water does not pond
on the floor. The recommended ratio of fall in a shower area is between 1:60 and 1:80 and the
recommended ratio of fall in other wet areas that are required to drain to a floor waste is
between 1:80 and 1:100.
NOTES:
Additional requirements for the drainage of wet area floors in sanitary facilities for people with
disabilities are contained in AS 1428. 1.
Generally, at the entry to a shower area there shall be no step down or hob. The following
drainage requirements also apply;
(a) the shower waste shall be as near as practicable to the centre of the shower area; and
(b) the ratio of fall to the shower area shall be between 1:50 and 1:60
(c) the ratio of fall to the room containing a sanitary fixture shall be between 1:70 and 1:80

Clause G.8.1(c) of the South Australian Housing Code (SAHC) provides a concession which dispenses with the requirement to drain the wet area floor
to a floor waste, as long as all sanitary fixtures within the room are provided with in-built overflow
protection.
The definition of sanitary fixture states that for the purpose of the SA Housing Code a shower is not a
sanitary fixture.
Therefore, the concession provided by G.8.1(c) has no effect on a room containing only a shower—
because there are no sanitary fixtures within the room.


Cheers

[cfv]

I am planning to renovate a bathroom which is built on a concrete slab in a Sydney 1950's double brick house. The bathroom is entirely usable and sound, but is the pink colour scheme of the era. I have already replaced all the tapware for basin, bath, shower and will be replacing the gravity hot water heater with a mains pressure water heater.

The floor is mosaic tile with a fall to the drain off centre. The mosaic tiles are on a screed which raises the floor about 20mm above the timber floor in the rest of the house.

I would appreciate some advice on:
- Is it possible to lay new tiles on top of the old?
Pros - No additional work to lift the tiles, the floor fall is in place
Cons - Raises the floor another15-20mm ie almost a real step

- The drains are old style drains leading to terra cotta piping, what is the best drain fitting for the floor that will "fit" into the older pipes?
- I plan to waterproof the shower stall so the floor tiles would need to be lifted