Finishing a restored 60yo timber floor

[bnpenty]

Hi Everyone

I've just joined woodworkforums, better late than never! What a great site. I've just read the threads 'Restore Old Floor Boards - with a twist...' and 'A recipe for filler - Blackbutt flooring'

I'm really impressed with everyone's contribution.

I've just about finished my floor/subfloor restoration (4 rooms and hallway) and have to consider the finish. I now have a mixture of new cypress (one room and hallway), original old cypress that is just about ok (one room), original old oregon (I think) that was also just about ok (one room), and finally one room that did have yellow tongue due to previous termite damage that now has old cypress, recycled from the area that I laid the new cypress.

3 Questions:

(1) I've used a Paslode gun and mistakenly started with C50 nails before moving to ND65's and then settling on ND50's. The new cypress flooring is a bit creaky tho, have I cramped up over zealously or is this a nailing problem? Can I or should I do anything about it at this stage? The timber was laid loose for a month before nailing

(2) I have gaps of up to 2mm in the 'just about ok areas' that need dealing with after (or during) sanding. I would prefer to use something non toxic. Can anyone go a bit further than the advice in the thread: 'A recipe for filler - Blackbutt flooring'

(3) I like the look of Livos Ardvos as a finish, but it's not locally sourced (and only $250 odd in the US). Any ideas here? I wouldn't mind something that needs regular maintenance (polishing for example) as long as it's reasonably trafficable, again non toxic, and can take spillages.

[BigCal]

Hey bnpenty,

Sounds like you have done a lot of work already! in response to your point 2,

With an old floor like yours I wouldn't be to worried about gaps of 2mm... basic problem with filling gaps like this is flexible sealer will suck down or raise if the boards contract or expand at all and this can be a disaster for your finnish... Harder fillers are likely to crack or come unstuck if the boards move at all - again stuffing your finnish... our floor has lots of gaps between 1 and 3mm its just the way it is - remember its an old floor and as such it has an old floor character to it... and your original areas are twice as old as mine... I had 1 gap of 4-5mm which i filled by cutting a fillet of timber and glueing in with selleys aquadhere, it came up tops its virtually an invisible repair - can tak a pic if you wish... if you have better tools and skill than me you could probably do this for 3mm gaps... I cut the top and bottom of the groove off a board and filled my gap with 4 individual lengths - as i only had a circular saw to work with thats not mounted under a bench or antyhing...

I know nothing of livos ardvos finnish, all i can tell you is we're super happy with the bona product we used, was easy to apply - and by all accounts will be hard wearing.. they have other options for the appearance of finnish - ours is their most matt finnish that is supposed to be the most natural look for the timber...

Keep us updated, and find a camera to take plenty of pics! i miss my floor project already...

[bnpenty]

Thanks for your reply Callum, The new cypress was to replace old cypress that was so poor that gaps up to 6mm were the least of the defects (inc bog, chunks missing, stains, borer damage and more). I wanted to use recycled cypress but baulked at paying $60 p.sq.m, when new was $30. So I didn't have to do what you did in repairs. I looked at Bona's website but they don't explain what's in their product other than to say it's water based.

I've got a french polisher coming round and I'm not yet sure what I should be asking him. I like the sound of some trowling over the defects method tho, using sawdust?

re the creaky boards, what does anyone think about using long 6's through knots over joists.

I still have little idea what finish I want to use 'cept I don't want to use polyurethene

Nick

[BigCal]

$60 bucks a sqm is rather pricey... i got my recycled for $12 sqm, i bought 20% extra as wastage because i knew there would be more wastage than new boards... and then i had to de nail it as well but at 1.20 per lm it was a small price to pay!

I put some plastic wedges between joist and boards on a couple of creeky ones i had, and then renailed the boards from the top as well - worked well so far... I also had a couple of ends that were only just on joists with no nails in the ends and I didn't want to nail to close to the end so I sistered up partial joists to the original ones to get around this - ment i could then nail the board 3 or 4 cm from their ends... I still have 1 creeky area i might try to get some wedges into, i didnt realise it was creaking until a bit late in the piece...

[bnpenty]

Just joking, but if you're planning on coming to Sydney Call, I'd buy up all that cypress at $12, flog it here for $50, and have a holiday in Nepal on the proceeds. You got an amazing bargain.

Re the nailing I guess I was hoping someone was going to tell me to get a nailing gun that takes "T" nails which are chunkier than the ND50's but not designed for my gun. Wedges: I really don't want to go under the floor any more! I probably will have to for something else tho so maybe I should get some wedges ready.

Today I'm punching in nails, and doing all the masonry work. Any tips here re punching in nails on the old flooring so I dont end up with huge punch holes? or should I sand a bit first to see where it's nec. Masonry: I'm really dreading this and I'm going to have to suit up. I have to chase up the wall a bit as I've done some subfloor wiring, cut holes for the backing boxes, and put in some wedges to nail the skirting in later. Yuk, one of the reasons I stopped working as a chippie full time was I got sick of getting brick dust out of my hair, off my teeth, and out of my nose. Pray it doesn't get hot today when I'm in the suit and masked up.

[BigCal]

I've got no suggestions with the punching, we sanded our floor with 40 grit before punching that was mainly because there was still alot of crud on the floors from under the tiles and I couldn't see where 80% of the nails were... our original floor has T nails but I just punched them with a round punch and filled em with timbermate putty... sorry i couldn't be more help there...

Definitely got a deal on the recycled boards, i'll be remembering that demo yard for all future projects!

[bnpenty]

Hi Callum, thanks for your reply, I guess I still have a few unanswered questions. Will anyone else lob their two bobs worth in....I did about half the masonry work today and then my grinder started to play up. Will work on it tommorrow with a mate but then normal day job til Fri. I cleared everything out of the 4 rooms to be sanded but got stood up today by French polisher. Will try to get another quick. Still hoping to sand next w/e and I'm now thinking of using Tung Oil, although the idea of using something that needs polishing regularly does have appeal! Nick

Edit: Can you give me the name/no./website of that demo yard

[BigCal]

PM'd ya the details

[falc72]

?

[falc72]

Hi Bnpenty,
I just finished a hardwood floor about 50 years old and punching nails was a hard very hard job. There was no way around using a punch that left a bigger hole than the nail, unless the nail head was already concealed or level with the timber. The reason is the punch just slides off the nail head if it is standing proud and then makes a bigger hole. So make sure you hammer the nail head flush and then try with a small punch. If that doesn't work use a flooring punch with a cupped head so it encloses the nail head (won't slip off). Don't be too scared to leave a bigger hole as it will be filled up anyway. I was punching hardwood and I tell you it was fun NOT!!!!!. It would sometimes take three of four sometimes five heavy hits with a lump hammer and flooring punch just to sit the nail under the timber. Gave me new respect for Australian hardwood. I'd punch all nails on all joists before and as you progress.
Cheers.

[bnpenty]

Yeah, you poor bugger, I can imagine. I'm not too bad on that on as I've got either baltic pine, cypress or hoop pine depending on who you talk to and none of them are too hard. I do have a cup punch and it's working fine. I'm sanding this w/e (see other post about sanding dramas) but I've run out of time to finish the chasing for power sockets. I'm worried about grinding (with boots) fine dust into my sanded floor if I do it after, and likewise with finished floor if I do it later, any ideas?

Also I have one room, maybe hoop pine, where as I punched the nails in I could see the rust discolouration around the nail head seemed to go right down into the wood. Aside from excessive sanding, is there anything to be done here? I think I'm gonna do my next floor in secret nailed hardwood.

[falc72]

Yep it's a catch 22 sometimes which job to start first. I'm now replacing skirting and I've got spac filler dust all over my new floor.:~ but can't be helped. I think with the rust you'll just have to realize that the floor won't ever be perfect. Mine's got stains, gaps, nail holes and low boards all through it. You just can't sand it until it is all level and stain free. Mind you I didn't sand and finish mine, but I'm glad because I might have been mistaken into sanding until I had them all level and god only knows how much timber would have been left after I finished. Maybe cover your floor if you need to work with some old sheets.
I'm hoping to attach a pic of a part of my floor. Anyone hazard a guess as to what type of timber it is?
Cheers.

[bnpenty]

You really can't tell from that photo, post a close up shot. I took a sample to Ironwood in Rozelle, Sydney, they sold me some hoop pine to patch, only 2 lineal metres thank god 'cos it was $24/l.m. It's a pretty good match but I'm not sure... Nick

[falc72]

I forgot to take a sample with me when I needed a few more pieces. I went to the shop at Rockdale and the closest I could guess was Tallow, but after the polishing I suspect that it isn't. Anyway, we can't have perfection all the time. Here's some closer pics.
Cheers.

[Dusty]

It looks to be some sort of Ash. Mountain Ash, Vic Ash, Alpine Ash, Cigarette Ash.

From the pics the boards seem to of copped a bit of a bollocking stain wise, making it tricky to give a 100% call on the timber type.

Some might just call it Tasmanian Oak. Guess it doesn't matter too much what we call it, as you seem happy enough with the results and that's the main thing.

[falc72]

Cigarette ash would describe it the best I suppose. Lol.
I'm wouldn't say I'm 100% happy with it but for what it started out as and the necessity of having to move in it'll have to do. There was no stain on it just old filthy hardboard, lino and carpet with a million nails driven into it. I'm not convinced the company done the best job either.
Anyway thanks for the opinion. I hadn't thought of Ash.
Cheers.

[bnpenty]

Well (getting back to the thread) I didn't finish the sanding last w/e, but did more or less do all the 25 grit work so the surface is pretty much level. And still havn't finished the chasing.

However I'm over the moon about how the old boards are blending with the new boards, you can't tell the difference :).

2 questions for any sanders out there: (1) do I definitely have to do the masonry chasing before moving on to the finer sanding grits and (2) how soon after finishing the sanding should I put my Tung Oil down? (not in terms of traffic on the floor, socks only at this point, but in terms of moisture, discolouration, or any other issue), Nick

[Dusty]

The more mess and possible damage you make prior to finish sanding the better, for obvious reasons.

Be ready to lay down your preferred finish as soon as you have completed the fine sanding to your satisfaction. The longer you leave it un-sealed the higher the chance of some sort of liquid spillage happening...er, like, um, beer for instance. So, as soon as your happy with the sanding give it a good vacuum and apply your first coat.

[BigCal]

Onthe cleaning note dusty bought up, we wiped everything down then vacumed then swept (with a fluffy microfibre thingy) and then mopped with one of those new age mops that take next to no water and we still have a couple of very small spots here something has gotten into the finnish, very minor though.

I highly recommend the mop, i thought the floor was clean as after the vacuum and sweep but my god did the mop get dirty quick... the brand was oats its a mop/broom mop pad is blue broom pad is orrange you wet the mop pad under tap then give it a wring out before using...

We did the same procedure between coats as well - after the fine sanding

ETA what ever it is thats in our finnish is something thats fallen in there whilst the finnish was drying... amazing how many surfaces are in a house to wipe down i thought i got em all...

[bnpenty]

Thanks for the advice guys, and all sounds good. Just one Q I forgot before: I have 50mm rounded triangles in the corners where the edge sander couldn't get into, do I chisel, use bull nose plane, or get the wife to sand it out?

Also, a reminder of an earlier post in this thread, all are welcome to see the final sand/application of Tung oil, either this w/e or next, Nick (0423 742 766 - Lilyfield Sydney)