RCD Trips

[arjay]

Hi all,
have lurked for a while in many area of this forum, is great!

Anyway I have a problem where my RCD trips(sometimes) when there is a power outage. The RCD is on a sub board in the house, the main board is on the garage and it has no problems.

I reset it and no more problems till the power goes off again.

Any ideas?

[thatirwinfella]

Hi all,
have lurked for a while in many area of this forum, is great!

Anyway I have a problem where my RCD trips(sometimes) when there is a power outage. The RCD is on a sub board in the house, the main board is on the garage and it has no problems.

I reset it and no more problems till the power goes off again.

Any ideas?

yeah, i think there may not actually be anything wrong with the rcd at all. I've come across types, and expect that it is as such, where the rcd has an internal relay that closes when the rcd is reset and opens when the power trips. however, because of the construction of the relay [it's probably got mechanical/push button closure only] it is impossible for the relay to reset itself after a power failure.

The ones of this type that I have come across are inline rcds for use on extension leads. when ever you put the lead in a socket you need to reset the rcd as well.

so, the rcd isn't actually faulty [unless you just absolutely cannot live with an rcd that operates like this- then it may be easy enough for a sparky to replace] and all i'd recommend is that you don't have anything that cannot go without power a an extended period of time [fridges, freezers, grandma's life support] connected to the circuit.

however, this is just speculation based on what you told me and may be wrong.

[arjay]

okay, update. Since I am worried about the power going off and fridge therefore going off and spoiling everything in it, if we are away a little while, thought I'd do some tests. Wanted to know what other points were on the same circuit.

The fridge which happens to be near the inside switchboard needs 2 circuit breakers to be tripped to turn it off!!!!! Yes I said two!! This is a 2yo home, what #$%^ ^@&*( registered sparkie wired this one???

[Vernonv]

So you can leave either CB on and the fridge stays on?

What does is say under the two CB's in question?

Sounds very strange.

[thatirwinfella]

call energysafe victoria, explain the situation. the sparky who wired the house will be obligated to come and repair the circuit free of charge if he wishes to keep his licence.

[arjay]

yes vernon I can have either CB on and the fridge stays on!!!!!!!!!!!!! ie only time there is no power at the outlet is when both CBs are tripped.

[Smurf]

At best this sounds like a house fire waiting to happen as you probably don't have proper protection from overloads or short circuits.

At worst you may be at risk of a fatal shock.

I would get this checked at once even if it means paying another electrician to do so. Better to spend a few $ than watch the house burn down - or worse.

I would get it fixed literally tomorrow due to the potentially serious safety risk. In the meantime, I would avoid the use of any heavy power using appliance - heaters etc. Better to be a bit cold rather than burnt or dead.

I am a licensed electrician (Electrical Technician) and this sounds like very dodgy work to me. Certainly not right and quite possibly highly dangerous - you may have been lucky so far but luck runs out sooner or later. Get it fixed ASAP.

[dan76]

yes, dangerous situation turn one circuit breaker off so that the cable is protected against overload until you can get it fixed

[AV Elec]

yes, dangerous situation turn one circuit breaker off so that the cable is protected against overload until you can get it fixed

Very true.

Circuit breakers wired in parallel!! That is a new one:?

[Smurf]

Very true.

Circuit breakers wired in parallel!! That is a new one:?
What I'm worried about is what else might be wrong? If someone's managed to put circuit breakers in parallel then I'm not willing to assume that this all they've messed up...

[dan76]

id think the most likely explanation is a loop between two power circuits somewhere in the house and one rcd protecting circuit breakers.
would have been easy to overlook when doing testing if they turned all circuits on and then did polarity, rcd tests etc

[arjay]

yes smurf and dan, where else did they mess up?

still doesnt explain the rcd sometimes tripping when the power goes off in the street does it?

only the one rcd protecting all the power circuits.

[thatirwinfella]

arjay, as mentioned before, i think the rcd is not actually faulty. There are types available that must be reset after a power failure.

But, i would still get the electrician back to fix the power circuit fault and report it to energy safe victoria.

i can imagine how this would occur and think that it is a simple mistake to make, but proper testing would have brought it up before power was applied to the house.

[arjay]

arjay, as mentioned before, i think the rcd is not actually faulty. There are types available that must be reset after a power failure.

but why does the rcd trip sometimes the power goes off and not others ? just interested.

[doug1]

I suspect the reason this trips is the interconnection , forcing the rcd's to have out of balance currant,

It needs to be fixed as stated

Doug

[arjay]

Answer! All the GPOs were wired in one circuit. Someone had tried to take the fridge GPO out of the loop by installing new wire from s/b to the second outlet. Unfortunately they didn't remove the original wire. Had it fixed and now fridge is on own circuit not on the rcd protected circuits.

Havent had a power outage yet so dont know if it has fixed the rcd trip.

[nev25]

now fridge is on own circuit not on the rcd protected circuits.


Do you mean its not protected by an RCD
Who did it
Thats Illegal

[AV Elec]

Do you mean its not protected by an RCD
Who did it
Thats Illegal

I'm not so sure.

I thought you were allowed to put the fridge on a non RCD protected circuit, but no other appliance.

[nev25]

I'm not so sure.

I thought you were allowed to put the fridge on a non RCD protected circuit, but no other appliance.

Not unless a fridge is Classified as a cooking appliance

Reg AS/NZ3000 2000 2.5.3.2
or
AS/NZ3000 2006 2.6.3

[Ivan in Oz]

Could it be Hard wired in its own Circuit; and not go through a GPO?

I am thinking something like a Double Light Switch,
and remove one of the Switches,
replace it with a 20mm Nylon Alco Gland,
Wire into the Switch and all else you'd require is a Double BP for the earth.

[nev25]

Could it be Hard wired in its own Circuit; and not go through a GPO?

I am thinking something like a Double Light Switch,
and remove one of the Switches,
replace it with a 20mm Nylon Alco Gland,
Wire into the Switch and all else you'd require is a Double BP for the earth.

Why the hell would you do that???

[Ivan in Oz]

No RCD

No Test and Tag......@ Work

[nev25]

No RCD

No Test and Tag......@ Work

Still has to be protected by an RCD

[LegacyGT]

What about aircons? my aircon was installed not going into the RCD.

[thatirwinfella]

Still has to be protected by an RCD


actually, under the new regs due to come, and i'm pretty sure under the current regs it would only need to be protected if it's a socket outlet, which it isn't or a handheld appliance, again, which it isn't.

i've done similar, it's legal.

[davo_scuba]

This sound like a typical electrical install, they don't give a toss till they get caught, worst thing about this is you get a new electrician round, he will say this needs doing, that needs doing it's going cost xxxx you can't get out of paying him to do the work and he's probably just as bad as the last bloke, sometimes worst !!!! which is really bloody great. you say anything about their quality of work and that gets there back up!!!!Hope you get it sorted to your satification with out to much inconvenience to yourself. With the trip switches I have seen/used some machinery with this type of switch not for domestic application though.