Carnauba Wax, has anyone tried...?

[astrid]

Has anyone tried filling grain with carnauba wax.
Ive been refinishing a small cedar table with danish oil (wipe on poly)
Its had about 6 thin coats and the shine is great.
Only problem is that some of the grain is so deep, it's still open.
I dont' usually use grain filler, but I probably should have this time.
but the timber was so pretty, oh well
I was wondering if you could use cedar carnauba in circles to fill the grain like one would with FP?.
It should dry hard enough and theres only a few spots open.

Astrid:)

[rsser]

Hi Astrid,

I've used the boss's ShitHot Waxstik on elm turnings and it came up very well. Elm is open-grained too.

Not used Carnauba but I understand it's pretty hard so may take a bit of elbow grease. Another option might be the Ubeaut tinted trad. wax.

[astrid]

Thanks ern,
Unfortunatly i left my Ubeaut trad wax in the car, on its side on a very hot day.
and all the wax ran away so I'll have a go with the carnaubra.
My only worry is that it it messes up, i will have to be careful taking it off again because of the DO underneath.

Cheers

Mel

[rsser]

Yuk.

(Left a pack of butter once in the car boot after shopping ... ).

As for removing the wax, or at least excess wax, try 0000 steel wool. May leave a dull but not scratched spot which could then be buffed.

[ubeaut]

Give the DO a week or so to harden or it will keep the wax soft and it will hust pull pit of the grain again.

No reason why you can't use the grain filler now then sand it off and apply a few more coats of DO to seal it in, although it could end up looking dull in the pores.

[astrid]

Last coat of DO went on about 10 days ago.
Havent got any grain filler, gave my can away cos i wasnt using it,
dont really want to buy any more just for this job, I'm a low budget Op and use what I've got, (within reason)

How long should i wait for the wax to dry before i buff it off the top, dont want to drag it out again, was hoping to get to client tomorrow?

Thanks for the reminder re steel wool, Ive got so mant OS jobs after the school hols, I'm in a bit of a flap.
Now I'm off to strip that old brown shellac of the lecturn for the school.

Astrid

[Cruzi]

Have found wax goes white in pores and grain in open grained timbers.

Looks horrible.

http://www.cruzis-coins.com/tmp/waxheart.JPG

[astrid]

Thanks Cruzi,
Thats why Im using a cedar tinted carnaubra, Its the neutral wax that goes white as it dries (I hope)

cheers Astrid

[rsser]

Extrapolating from my experience with the WaxStik (which prob has a good deal of hard wax like Carnauba in it), you can buff it up immediately.

[astrid]

Carnaubra it softer when it goes on,
Not familier with Ubeat wax sticks, but I'm putting the carnaubra (which in this weather is almost liquid) on in circular movements like FP, then straghtning up.
so the soft wax should go in the pores, but a bit thicker than on the surface.
I dont want to have to rub out carnaubra whip marks:oo: that is almost impossible unless your a weightlifter.

Astrid:)

[astrid]

Progress report
First coat of CW went on well, filled pores a bit
second coat 1 hour later filled a bit more, let dry 1hr
orange peeled a bit, so buffed with 0000 steel wool, got rid of OP and hopefully flattened ridges on pores.
Will let dry another hour and try another coat of CW

Astrid

[rsser]

Sounds good.

Shithot Waxstik is hard in this weather, so clearly it's not just CW, or not even.

[astrid]

The CW I'm using isnt pure CW in fact in view of some of our enlightening posts lately on mainstream products, Ill be lucky if its 20%.
But it does dry very hard. put it on too thick once, OH BOY I dont think I ever got it all off.
It does go a bit sticky if you dont let it fully dry, but I think thats a feature of carnaubra.

Astrid:)

[rsser]

As an aside, it's striking how restoring is so much more complex than finishing.

Hadn't realised that til reading Neil's book.

[astrid]

Yes I'll get a copy when I get some work done and put an order in:U
The wax sticks sound good, the only ones Ive got are rubbish and the colours dreadful (unless you want sealing wax)

Re restoration being more complex than finishing, I dont really think thats the case.
A first class restoration shop usually employs a first class finisher and a first class cabinate maker, and upholstery is separate again.
Those like me who do a bit of both should stick to simple stuff.(there are exceptions of course)
My line with those who got an upholster to "fix" their chair, and who did it with araldite and a nail gun, and then complain about the work, is
"Dont ask an eletrician to do a plumbers job"

Astrid:)

[rsser]

Well, the Waxstik is designed for turners. You rub it hard against your spinning work. It'd be darn hard work otherwise.

[rsser]

Oh, and the point of the previous post was to suggest that while Neil's book is a terrific reference, there's a lot more to restoring than finishing new work.

[astrid]

The hard wax sticks I've got are intended to be heated and melted to fill cracks and small holes.
The heat from a lathe would do just the same thing i supose.
What I meant about restoration was that you have to have a broader knowledge but the depth can vairey:U

Can anyone tell me why my spell check seems to turn itself on and off at random?
I cant see an on button anywhere?

Astrid:)

[Jim Carroll]

I was always under the assumption that you are supposed to grain fill before applying the finish.
Makes for a better finish overall.

[MacS]

Jim,

Your right, although grain filling is labor intensive and time consuming, at the end of the job you will save time, labor, and money because you will be applying less clear coats to complete the work, and you will end up with a much better and finer finish in the end.

MacS

[rsser]

Hey guys, read the original post again.

[astrid]

Thanks Ern,
Grain fill is OK but it tends to muddy up the overall look,
If you have a really lovely old timber, its better to fill the grain with polish then you get the full effect, but it is time consuming. even more so than using grain filler.

Astrid

[MacS]

If you use one of the colored paste wood fillers, and you do it right, it don't muddy up the finish, in fact the contrast of the filler against the natural wood or the stain improves and enhances the finish.

[astrid]

Hey, Ho guys,
Could we get back to my original question?
Has anyone done this, And whats the result?

Astrid:)

[Cruzi]

Cedar has some hell pores that resist all kinds of filling, sometimes it feels like the whole thing is hollow.

Would be concerned about using CW to fill these.

The photo shows a finishing experiment that went wrong, not only did the white stuff appear it also "collapsed" (for want of a better term) after a few weeks, ie the smooth finish didn't remain smooth, the grain texture appeared again.

Have read that the major disadvantage to using finishes to fill is they can shrink and re-open the pores, something grain fillers are designed not to do.


With regard to grain filler/sealers, personal experiments indicate that Feast Watson Sealer is a great filler but can muddy the timber if too thick (sanding often fixes this) and Wattyl Timber Sealer is more of a sanding sealer than pore filler but hardly affects the beauty of the wood.

Before I get too far off track, CW will eventually fill the pores, but do not think that it will be a long lasting finish.

[Jim Carroll]

Ern not really of topic just trying to establish why the job was not grain filled in the first place, so not having to resort to other ways to get the finish

Ok so you dont like to grain fill at the start.

Why use a wax to grain fill.

You indicate that you use the finish to grain fill but now you want to use a wax to do the job.

Is not any type of wax more a polish than a finish, whether it is beeswax, carnaubra etc.

If you use the wax to grain fill is it not more likely to wear out quicker and show the bad grain filling job than a good finish.

[MacS]

Wax is not the way to go to fill the open grains, its a band-aid.
The right way to do grain filling is by using a paste wood filler.

Its not a big deal, once you learn how to do it right. If your using burlap or cloth to rub off the excess filler, its the hard and long way, the easier way is to do it is by scraping off the filler once the filler goes flat.

There is even a finishing technique to" color" the open grains, without filling the open grains, you can color the grains but not the woods.

[astrid]

I Know its a band aid guys,
read my original post.

Astrid

[MacS]

I re-read your post, what stands out to me is it's a "small cedar table " If it was small you should have "paste wood filled" the open grains, its the right way to go, its also the fastest.

Think Twice, Finish Once.

[astrid]

MacS If you READ my post I said that in this case I probably should have used grain filler, OK.
I have sucessfully polished dozens of small cedar tables or drawers, or chairs etc and my preference is to use shellac as was done traditionaly.
OK so in hindsight, this one would have been better filled with whatever.
Jim , I stu ff ed up. OK. Something all of us do sometimes.

Ern, the table is finished and looks beautiful, Thanks
I was not intending a french polish finish, which is why i used Danish oil.

Astrid

[MacS]

I know, there is more then one way of doing things in finishing, but it seems to me like you do somethings that are creating your own problems. I see this in some of your post.

If you don't have the "right" materials on hand, you will try using almost anything you do have on hand. This "give it a try" attitude always leads to problems, as I am sure you know yourself.

Learning by trial and error can be very costly in the long run, lucking out once in a while, may not work the next time. Being over anxious to get the work completed, and not allowing the materials to dry properly causes more finishing problems then the finishing materials.

Whenever your in doubt, ask first for an answer, not after you have the problems.

I mention this because I see your really trying to improve your finishing, chemicals can be very complexed, because they vary from one manufacturer to another. That's, why is best to stay with time tested products that work for you.

One of the keys to finishing, which I still do myself, is to first make up complete start to finish sample panels. One, it will tell me if all my the materials are compatible with each other, two, it will allow me to learn the right finishing process, and three it gives me a change to make corrections on the samples, and not on my customers pieces.

[astrid]

cruzi,
What sort of wax did you use on the little heart.
By the way is that one of your carvings?
Its very nice.
some furniture was finished only with wax, usually put on hot.
probably only work with a tight grained timber and requires a lot of hard rubbing (they used to have housemaids waxing weekly) but the wax permeates the timber
I used this on an old rough hewn french walnut bowl before christmas.
the original finish was done this way.(with wax only I mean) I needed to freshen it up a bit.
First i cleaned the dust and excess old wax from the surface with fine steel wool and a little turps.
Then i applied the wax, heating it with a hairdryer and buffing hard.
The end result was a beautful soft glow which was also quite hard.
This is a lovely finish for carvings that dont get wear or handling, and quite different from shellac or oil.
Dont give up on it because the first one didn'n turn (HA HA) out so well.
You can take off what you did and try this, or try heating the heart with a hairdryer and apply some of neils tinted wax. though Ive never tried heating Ubeaut Trad Wax.
We all learn by experiment.

Astrid

[mlhm5]

Break polystyrene foam (the rigid packing material) into small pieces and cover with lacquer thinner and let stand a few days.

[astrid]

Table came out really well,
By not using the grainfiller, the grain showed a lot more of the "flashy bits"
that you get in toonis australis
The wax filled it up a bit and hardened well.
The grain is still a bit open but the clarity of the grain makes up for it.
Client very happy

Cheers
Astrid