Underground cable marking

[Vernonv]

Hi All,
Is it a requirement of AS/NZS 3000:2007 to mark the location of underground wiring? or is it optional?

Thanks.

[juan]

YES or NO

As I recall, no tape needed if wiring enclosure is light orange in colour or light orange coloured polymeric cable cover strip is used which complies with AS 4702

Otherwise
Orange marker tape positioned not more than 200mm above wiring system or any additional mechanical protection OR laid on top of wiring system before concrete is placed where system is chased in rock.

[Vernonv]

Thanks.
Wiring is to be laid inside 25mm orange HD conduit, min 500 deep.

I'm trying very hard not the raise the ire of the electrical nazi's:D.

[nev25]

GGGRRRRRR

If you are doing the job illegally why worry about regulations LOL

[Vernonv]

What from what I posted suggests that I am doing anything illegal? :?

I tried to word the question in such a way that it could not be misinterpreted as a "how do I ..." kind question:rolleyes:.

[nev25]

Thats Fine
The electrical contractor that does the Job will know the regulations

[patty]

Mininum 600 mm to the top of conduit backfill 100mm as Juan said then lay marking tape!

[Vernonv]

The electrical contractor that does the Job will know the regulations

Maybe I'm checking up on what an electrical contractor, or his apprentice, who did the job, said, or did?

Nah ... I'm just stirring now:D.

[Vernonv]

Hey Nev25, what happened to your "WRONG" post? It just disappeared:?.

[Barry_White]

Vernon

Digging the trench and filling it in doesn't constitute electrical work anyway.

[nev25]

Vernon

Digging the trench and filling it in doesn't constitute electrical work anyway.

Thats right but the question was about underground wiring

Just exercising my DUTY OF CARE to the general public

[nev25]

Hey Nev25, what happened to your "WRONG" post? It just disappeared:?.


I was going to point out that Patty's reply is wrong but its Illegal for me to give electrical advice my license and insurance don't coved it

[Vernonv]

But the thing is I'm not asking "how to do something", I'm asking for someone to quote me the standard - not to interpret it - not to tell me how put it into practice - just to quote it.

Really, how answering my question can possibly endanger or otherwise adversely effect someone, is beyond me????

[juan]

Whilst I would never condone anyone performing work that should be done by a qualified tradesperson, it would be foolish in the extreme to believe that this is not occuring on a regular basis for many varied reasons.

Surely it is better for us all if the persons foolishly breaking the law at least do the work correctly according to standards, rather than creating hidden hazards for others who come across that work in the future.

I reiterate Nev25's point about not exceeding what is allowable and using a licensed electrician to obtain a COC for the work.

[silentC]

Surely it is better for us all if the persons foolishly breaking the law at least do the work correctly according to standards, rather than creating hidden hazards for others who come across that work in the future.
I'd be more worried about what's in the conduit than how it's marked :wink:

Look at it this way: what's a roll of plastic tape cost? $20? It looks a lot better dangling from the teeth of a backhoe bucket than orange conduit, believe me :)

[patty]

If you are doing the job illegally why worry about regulations LOL

I guess in a way they are making it illegally safe as possible?
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[juan]

I compare it to the clowns who drive a car without a license. We sure as hell do not condone the practice but just hope they obey the rules of the road.

[silentC]

Good point. So if they haven't got their license, how do you know they know the road rules? :wink:

[nev25]

I compare it to the clowns who drive a car without a license. We sure as hell do not condone the practice but just hope they obey the rules of the road.

The point I'm trying to make

If you teach the person to drive and tell them the road rules and they go out on the road unlicensed and kill them self are you liable.

[silentC]

Except in this case, you're telling them one or two of the rules and assuming they know the rest :)

[Vernonv]

Except in this case, you're telling them one or two of the rules and assuming they know the rest :)

If someone asks you what a stop sign is, would you tell them regardless of if they had a drivers license? Telling them could save their, or someone else's life.

I still don't see the harm or illegality, in answering a question such as I posed.

It's kind of the "head in the sand" theory ... if we don't tell kids about drugs they won't take them ... or if we don't tell them about sex and contraception they won't mess around and get pregnant. All in the name of safety of course.

[silentC]

If they had a driver's license, they wouldn't have to ask. If I have to tell them what a stop sign is this should be a clear indication that they should not be behind the wheel of a car at all and the best thing for me to do is call the cops before they kill someone.

I agree, a different approach is required with kids, who often don't yet have a well developed set of morals and an understanding of right and wrong. However, I presume we are dealing here with a grown adult who is mature enough to know the difference, despite how cleverly he might word his question :)

But you're right, I see nothing wrong with answering your question, as posted. People might read between the lines and assume you are doing something naughty and likewise I see nothing wrong with them cautioning you.

[wdyte_dan]

Are you at least allowed to dig the hole to lay the cable in? :;

[silentC]

You'll have a hard time getting a sparky to do it :D

[Vernonv]

If they had a driver's license, they wouldn't have to ask.
Yes, that would be cause for concern if they had to ask.


If I have to tell them what a stop sign is this should be a clear indication that they should not be behind the wheel of a car at all and the best thing for me to do is call the cops before they kill someone.
Regardless of his competency to drive, that one piece of information could stop them from running a stop sign. Providing the information has a long term benefit. Calling the cops (assuming he is behind the wheel when they get there) may get him off the road for a little while, but the next time he gets behind the wheel (illegally) he still won't know to stop at a stop sign.


However, I presume we are dealing here with a grown adult who is mature enough to know the difference, despite how cleverly he might word his question :)
You busted me ... now mums nagging me to get off the computer and go have my afternoon nap ... I get a bit grumpy and argumentative when I don't get my nap :D.

[silentC]

Regardless of his competency to drive, that one piece of information could stop them from running a stop sign.
That's assuming he knows where the brake pedal is. If I tell him about the stop sign, it might give him enough confidence to take it on, totally unaware of the greater complexity implied by the word 'stop' :)

[Vernonv]

That's assuming he knows where the brake pedal is. If I tell him about the stop sign, it might give him enough confidence to take it on, totally unaware of the greater complexity implied by the word 'stop' :)
Now, I'm thinking you might also need an afternoon nap:wink:.

You've got to love a good argument .... sorry, discussion:D.

[silentC]

You've got to love a good argument
Yeah... do you know where I can find one? :p

:D

[Vernonv]

:o

I should have seen that coming :doh:.

[patty]

Are you at least allowed to dig the hole to lay the cable in?

Of course you can dig the hole to lay the cable in it!
Some Electricians on this site will have you believe you cant change a light globe!

[Timmo]

Are you at least allowed to dig the hole to lay the cable in?

Of course you can dig the hole to lay the cable in it!
Some Electricians on this site will have you believe you cant change a light globe!

yes it's ambiguous, but a light globe is a plug in appliance.

[elkangorito]

See the attached file for the reasons why you should employ a licensed electrician to do your job. How many headaches do you want?

[Vernonv]

Thanks Elkangorito.

Is that from the latest version of the standard?

[Barry_White]

See the attached file for the reasons why you should employ a licensed electrician to do your job. How many headaches do you want?

Whats difficult about that and that's pretty straight forward but where's the tables to go with that extract from AS3000.

If you are going to break the forums electricians rules of not giving out information on how and what to do and not do you might as well give it all out so anyone doing their own electrical can at least get it right.

[wdyte_dan]

This question still confuses me - on the one hand, several people here agree that an eletrician probably won't be interested in digging holes and trenches for laying cables (and few would be interested in paying hourly rates for him to do this).

On the other hand, there is a reluctance to give the specs on how to properly prepare the trench.

I was always under the impression that (at least some) sparkys are comfortable with some degree of roughing if done properly, I would have thought laying a conduit (and possibly a suitable cable in a trench (obviously with a view to getting a contractor to connect it) would have saved time and money.

[silentC]

Firstly, the standard is available to anyone, you don't have to be a sparky to buy a copy of it. The information posted by Elkangorito is from that standard.

Secondly, yes you are right, I have yet to see a sparky dig a trench - you normally hire a backhoe or trench digger for that - but the sparky is responsible for making sure it is of the correct depth and location and that the correct materials are used for conduit and marking etc.

So anybody can dig the trench but only a sparky or someone directly supervised by one can put something in it. If you lay the cable yourself, fill the trench and then call a sparky, unless he is a very trusting individual, he should pull it out and redo it, or walk away from the job - simply because it is his license on the line if you did something wrong. I know it's not rocket science and it would be hard to stuff up, providing you know what type of cable to use, but they're the legalities of it.

You'll find that most objections to posting wiring info are to do with people asking questions about how to wire up lights etc, usually along the lines of "I have several wires of such and such a colour, where do I put them?" or "how do I install a dimmer switch" etc. These are examples of people asking others to interpret the standards for them and tell them how to do something they're clearly not qualified to do.

[Barry_White]

So if you really have an urge to do your own wiring and want to get it right just go here and fork out the readies.

http://www.saiglobal.com/shop/script/Details.asp?DocN=AS0733783910AT

[patty]

I have been wire jerking for over 20yrs and have dug many a trench well the ditchwitch dug the trench I cleaned it out and put the conduit in and backfilled but I found I just didnt have the time to dig trenches and how could i justify charging builders 3-4 hrs @60 bucks an hr+ hire of machine???when most had their own machines and labourers to do the job!

[silentC]

Exactly. But the point I'm making is that although the sparky doesn't have to physically dig the trench, and in most cases these days he doesn't, he is responsible for it and it is dug under his guidance because he is responsible for the whole job.

If you've been operating a backhoe long enough, you would know how deep a trench for electricals must be, but you don't just turn up and start digging, someone has to tell you where to start and where to finish. Often that might be the builder following consultation with the sparky, but the sparky is ultimately responsible.

[juan]

Firstly, the standard is available to anyone, you don't have to be a sparky to buy a copy of it. The information posted by Elkangorito is from that standard.And it is copyright material. It is ok to quote the gist of what is required by a standard but posting a copy of that material either whole or in part is a breach of the Copyright Act 1968.

[TJAY]

If they had a driver's license, they wouldn't have to ask. If I have to tell them what a stop sign is this should be a clear indication that they should not be behind the wheel of a car at all and the best thing for me to do is call the cops before they kill someone.

You say that, and yet I was in a taxi recently when we were stopped at a set of lights. The cab driver turned around and asked me if I'd mind him asking a question. I said of course not. He then asked if he was allowed to turn left on a red light. :o:o

Whoever passed him for his license clearly didn't check too hard, and apparently he'd seen so many other cabs do it he assumed it was okay. Thank-god he at least had the brains to ask me first.

[silentC]

Let's not get started on idiots on the road!

But at least he had a license through which he can be punished and third party insurance to cover your medical costs when he gets T-boned.

[silentC]

It is ok to quote the gist of what is required by a standard but posting a copy of that material either whole or in part is a breach of the Copyright Act 1968.
Yeah I wondered about that. I know there is a fair dealing exception that covers partial reproductions for educational purposes.

But the point is, you don't require a license to own a copy.