spray finish without formaldehyde

[LeonieB]

HI everyone
I am looking for a single pack polyurethane finish that can be sprayed on but does not have formaldehyde in it (or anything else too toxic). I like the look of the Mirotone spray single pack PU but want to steer clear of the formaldehyde. This is for a timber kitchen carcass made of recycled hardwood.

Does anyone have any other suggestions?
Thanks
LeonieB

[Big Shed]

Leonie, does the Mirrotone PU list formaldehyde in the contents?

That would surprise me.

[LeonieB]

HI
Yes it does - the one pack spray on has a small amount of formaldehyde
LeonieB

[Big Shed]

Hi Leonie, well I am surprised...........

Just looked up Wattyl Estapol's MSDS and it certainly doesn't list formaldehyde as an ingredient, nor do I see why it would be used in a coating of this nature.
If you have a look at the MSDS (material Safety Data Sheet) for Solver Interior Polysol (http://www.solverpaints.com.au/v2/html/5018-32.htm), an interior polyurethane-alkyd the same as Wattyl Estapol (wattyl own Solver), you will see that it does not contain formaldehyde. It also doesn't contain unreacted isocyanate (or free isocyanate).

Normally formaldehyde is present in chipboard and MDF panels, which are manufactured using urea-formaldehyde glues.

I certainly would not have an issue with using products such as Solver Polysol or Wattyl Estapol. Alternatively you could use the water based equivalent Solver PolyAaqua (http://www.solverpaints.com.au/v2/html/timber-interior.htm) but that wouldn't be quite as hardwearing as the solvent based version, but would semll better during application.

Hope that helps.

[LeonieB]

Thanks Bigshed
I just looked at these and they dont seem to be spray on?
LeonieB

[Big Shed]

They can applied any way you want, spray is fine. They are however slower drying than a lacquer for instance, but they don't have the strong solvents either.

If you can give me the full Mirrotone product name, perhaps I can find you a similar non-formaldehyde containing product.

What sort of spry gun are you going to use? Or (shock horror:oo:) are you talking about aerosol spray packs?

[LeonieB]

HI Bigshed
Thank you. its Mirotone 3210.

WE will get someone else to spray it commercially.
Thanks again
Leonie

[ubeaut]

Think you'll find, many finishes have formaldehyde in them, as a part of another chemical/additive used in the hardening or cross linking processes. It is usually so minute that it's not required to be listed in the MSDS or are listed as something else as a part of the whole (if you know what I mean)

Most formaldehyde in finishes is totally locked into the finish and doesn't leach out like it does in chipboard etc and is considered quite safe when the surface is dry. At least that is my understanding of it and what I have been advised.

Cheers - Neil :)

[Big Shed]

Leonie, according to the Mirotone website, 3210 is a precat Nitrocellulose Lacquer, not a single pack PU. Are you sure this is a PU?????

If the MSDS for 3210 lists formaldehyde, what percentage does it give?

The MSDS for 3210 on the Mirotone site is locked so I can't look it up.

[LeonieB]

HI

Sorrry - it is a laquer.

Mirotone 3210 lists:
resins
plasticiser
aromatic solvents
alkyl esters
alkyl alcohols
formaldehyde less than 0.1%.
ingredients determined not to be hazardous.

Formaldehyde is definitely listed as a separate ingredient.

LeonieB

[Big Shed]

Well, that was a very long winded way of getting at the correct information, bit of wild goose chase really!:(

If you are going to be worried about < 0.1% formaldehyde, which as Neil said, is probably a component of one of the raw materials, then I suggest you will be quite limited in the materials that can be in your house.

[Master Splinter]

If you are worried about the amount of formaldehyde in paint, you'd better stop eating fruits and vegetables.

...Aside from being one of the most common chemicals around - quoting from http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/mhmi/mmg111.html (http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/mhmi/mmg111.html)


"Formaldehyde is synthesized by the oxidation of methanol. It is among the 25 most abundantly produced chemicals in the world and is used in the manufacture of plastics, resins, and urea-formaldehyde foam insulation.
Formaldehyde or formaldehyde-containing resins are used in the manufacture of chelating agents, a wide variety of organic products, glass mirrors, explosives, artificial silk, and dyes. It has been used as a disinfectant, germicide, and in embalming fluid. In the agricultural industry, formaldehyde has been used as a fumigant, preventative for mildew in wheat and rot in oats, a germicide and fungicide for plants, an insecticide, and in the manufacture of slow-release fertilizers.
Formaldehyde is found in construction materials such as plywood adhesives. Formaldehyde also is or has been used in the sugar, rubber, food, petroleum, pharmaceuticals, and textiles industries."
...formaldehyde is also a breakdown product of normal digestion. There are these so-called 'natural' products that are actually little formaldehyde factories once you eat them!

Juices, fruits and vegetables will all produce methanol in your body when digested. Methanol is then broken down to formaldehyde, which is then turned into formic acid, which is then turned into water and carbon dioxide which are excreted from the body.

Unless you are going to get rid of all fruit and vegetables from your diet, you are still going to be running foul of formaldehyde!

[Dirty Doogie]

I am glad someone pointed that out.

[China]

Thanks Master Splinter saved me the trouble

[ubeaut]

Less than 0.1% that means there is a minimum 99.9% of the product that isn't formaldehyde.

The MSDS says LESS than 0.1% as the amount is minuscule. It's most likely considerably less than stated, possibly as low as 0.01% or even less. In most instances the MSDS isn't exact measurements but a max and min range with minuscule amounts marked as Less than or in many instances not even mentioned.

This will be why it isn't shown in some of the other MSDS's that have been searched.

I'd be much more worried about what's in the recycled hardwood in the carcases or about the formaldehyde in many other things than the minute amount that would be locked tightly within a finish.

Cheers - Neil :)

[LeonieB]

Thanks everyone for your responses
Food for thought...
Just to explain - we have a young family, and also I as a uni student was breathing large and eye irritating amounts of formaldehyde for several hours almost daily for two years, so I have had a large exposure. Just trying to reduce my/our overall total exposure to a carcinogen....
LeonieB

:-:p:(:wink::)

[Dirty Doogie]

Hi leonie - I would have thought Universities would have been right up there on the dangers of inhaled Formaldehyde - have you suffered any long term effects? Inhaled formaldyhe is pretty yukky stuff.

Neil (ubeaut) does make a good point about the substances in recycled timber though.

I wouldnt be at all surprised if DDT, chlordane, deildrine, coal tar and napthene soluble resins turned up in old wood - particularly pine type timbers. I've had a most unpleasant experience with Old Growth hoop pine in the past.

[MacS]

Conversion Varnish, which is one of the most popular coating being used today in both the large and small finishing shops that want a coating that is very hard, durable, and chemical resistant, it contains low formaldhyde that is within the goverments limits.

[astrid]

I have sometimes noticed a distinct lack of subtlety and tact on this forum.
Now your trying to scare Leonie silly.
The woman has gone to great lengths and trouble to make her environment as safe as possible.For as she has pointed out, very good reasons.
I am sure she realises the obvious, that you cant entirely avoid hazardous material but to try to reduce exposure as much as possible makes sense.
To now tell her that the effort shes made is a waste of time, is unkind and patronising.

And, yes I know this reply is very unsubtle.

Astrid

[echnidna]

sometimes it is far better to be blunt rather than subtle.

[Master Splinter]

Here you go - more household formaldehyde sources to worry about...

"Quaternium-15 is a preservative found in many cosmetics and industrial substances that acts as a formaldehyde releaser. It can be found in numerous sources, including but not limited to: mascara, eyeliner, moisturizer, lotion, shampoo, conditioner, nail polish, personal lubricants, soaps, body wash, baby lotion or shampoo, facial cleanser, tanning oil, self-tanning cream, sunscreen, powder, shaving products, ointments, personal wipes or cleansers, wipes, paper, inks, paints, polishes, waxes and industrial lubricants. It can cause contact dermatitis, a symptom of an allergic reaction, especially in those with sensitive skin, on an infant's skin, or on sensitive areas such as the genitals.

Imidazolidinyl urea is an antimicrobial preservative used in cosmetics. It is chemically related to diazolidinyl urea which is used in the same way. Imidazolidinyl urea acts as a formaldehyde releaser.

Diazolidinyl urea is an antimicrobial preservative used in cosmetics. It is chemically related to imidazolidinyl urea which is used in the same way. Diazolidinyl urea acts as a formaldehyde releaser.

Melamine resin or melamine formaldehyde is a hard, thermosetting plastic material made from melamine and formaldehyde by polymerization. This plastic is often used in kitchen utensils or plates and is the main constituent in high pressure laminates such as Formica and Laminex. Melamine resin is often used to saturate decorative papers which are directly laminated onto particle board; the resultant panel is often referred to just as "melamine" and is frequently used in ready-to-assemble furniture and inexpensive kitchen cabinets.

Note that studies indicate that health risks from formaldehyde relate to peak and average levels of exposure, not cumulative exposure: http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/formaldehyde

[journeyman Mick]

........To now tell her that the effort shes made is a waste of time, is unkind and patronising..............

Astrid,
where exactly did anyone say that Leonie's efforts were a "waste of time"?:?

Mick

[LeonieB]

Hi MacS
I googled conversoin varnish but did not find anything...who makes it and is this the brand name?

Thanks for everyone's input.

LeonieB

[ubeaut]

Leonie - Think you'll find that the within govt limits means it's most likely much higher than the Mirotone one you asked about originally.

Cheers - Neil :)


And, yes I know this reply is very unsubtleAnd so is this Astrid. Pull your head in. People are trying to help, you aren't. :~

[LeonieB]

HI all
I just did some research and found that 0.2% or higher of formaldehyde content is banned overseas.

Still looking for more ideas on other brands of formaldehyde-free lacquers (satin finish), which seem to be more available overseas than here.
Thank you
LeonieB

[MacS]

Leonie,

Try "goggling" this one, "Precatalyzed Lacquer" or precat lacquer.

Precats, are better coatings then Nitrocellulose Lacquer" but not as good as Conversion Varnish.

Conversion Varnish, is the name of the coating, not the company name.

Question:

Is it common to find suppliers that sell nitrocellulose, precat lacquers, and conversion varnishes.

[Harry72]

Mac, our paint industry is very different to yours... your environmental standards are higher than ours(I think?).
Things like water finishes are just starting to take a hold here, most of our coatings are still petrochemical solvent based.
Conversion varnish here is pretty well unheard of term and products like turbine guns are non-exsistant in the domestic market, here at a hardware shops all you will find are mostly polyU's and a few oil finishes we do not have the diversity of domestic products like the USA.

[MacS]

Harry,

Thank you, that's important information for a finishing writer.

MacS

[journeyman Mick]

Leonie,

Try "goggling" this one, "Precatalyzed Lacquer" or precat lacquer.

Precats, are better coatings then Nitrocellulose Lacquer" but not as good as Conversion Varnish.........

Mac (& Leonie) most nitrocellulose lacquers sold in Australia are, in fact, pre-catalysed nitrocellulose lacquer.

Mick