Garage to be enclosed -windows and door ideas?

[mcarthur]

I have a 6x6m garage that I need help on ideas for closing it in. The sides are single-bricked to about 1.5m, with about another 1m of openness before the ceiling. There are two sides to enclose, both nearly the full 6m long although one has an opening at one end that I'll need to leave (currently a gate but would become a door). Heat/cooling is important, but noise is especially so as this will be my workshop (not darksider :D and it's within 3m of the doorway into the house that is kept mostly open). Floor is concrete.

The front of the garage needs to be enclosed as well, being a nearly 6m opening at the moment.

Does anyone have suggestions for both niceness and price? The rest of the house has aluminium windows, so something like wooden casement is probably out. There are no real eaves on the sides, so sliding windows that are left open for air could let in rain; but there may be better ways to get air in!

Current use is a completely messy workshop that hasn't really been setup since moving in last year. It currently "can't" be used since the noise really bothers the people in the downstairs living area. I've priced putting on a shed/garage/workshop/studio out the back of the yard, but I need ideas and to be able to price fixing the current garage (noise-wise in particular) and see if that's a better option.

Thanks!
Rob

[Cin]

Hi Rob,

I'm in a very similar position to you. Have you considered building the exterior (non-load bearing walls) yourself? I am about to do this in the near future, and build my own window casement windows (unless its cheaper to buy it). An idea for the exterior wall cladding could be fibre cement planks (smooth or rusticated) made by James Haridie ("HardiPlank") or BGC ("DuraPlank") or an alternative may be brick veneer.

Cin

[Groggy]

Think about the layout and make sure the door is where you will outfeed work from machines. A window that has its sill at the same height as a bench allows long pieces to be fed out if necessary.

[Burnsy]

I am looking into extending my garage out by 2 metres and plan on extending forward on the side wall using a second hand roller door with the existing roller door being moved forward and mounted on the same corner piller. The beauty of this is it opens up the workshop to allow light and air in from two sides and long lengths of timber can be easily manouvered across the opening if both roller doors are up.

The use of new or recycled roller doors may work for you with the remaining area being filled with insulated timber frame walls.

[HappyHammer]

Think about the layout and make sure the door is where you will outfeed work from machines. A window that has its sill at the same height as a bench allows long pieces to be fed out if necessary.
Hey Groggy exactly how small is your workshop?:U

HH.

[Groggy]

Hey Groggy exactly how small is your workshop?:U

HH.I don't think I said it was "small", I believe I said it lacked "space". :wink:

[mcarthur]

I'm in a very similar position to you. Have you considered building the exterior (non-load bearing walls) yourself? I am about to do this in the near future, and build my own window casement windows (unless its cheaper to buy it). An idea for the exterior wall cladding could be fibre cement planks (smooth or rusticated) made by James Haridie ("HardiPlank") or BGC ("DuraPlank") or an alternative may be brick veneer.

I'm actually quite happy with the walls :D - solid brick. It's just that they stop about 1.5m off the floor and leave about a 1m gap in which the sound escapes (and the Canberra enters!). I've had some of the clear plastic blinds from Bunnings (2.4m x 1.5m) sideways across the gap for a year, but they provide no sound insulation and only marginal winter and water protection.

Rob

[mcarthur]

Think about the layout and make sure the door is where you will outfeed work from machines. A window that has its sill at the same height as a bench allows long pieces to be fed out if necessary.

I won't have any options for placement of the door really - bl**dy big width at the front of the garage which will need either a lift door (urgh - no style :p) or a roller; there's an uphill slope immediately in front of the garage so opening doors (barn style?) aren't going to work.

The current gate location, at the back of the garage at one side will need to stay as well, being turned into a closable sound-insulating door.

Unfortunately, the windows at about 1.5 off the ground aren't at a good height for feeding (in or out), so that means the front door (lift or roller) will be for the really long stuff. However, I've got nearly 6x6m to whizz timber around above my head :oo:. "pity" it's going to be filled with "stuff" with little swing room. In fact I'll need to build a hutch to keep the timber in - the mess (=garage) is already chocker :rolleyes:.

So would you have sliding or push/wind out?

Rob

[Dirty Doogie]

When you say a "lift" door do you mean a tilt-a-door type thing?

[mcarthur]

When you say a "lift" door do you mean a tilt-a-door type thing?

That's the beast. Because of the upslope just outside the door, barn-style opening doors won't work. So I suppose it's either tilt, roll or bifold. Hmm, hadn't thought of the latter until just then. Anyone have comments on either of these three options?

Noone has said anything about window options yet either :C.

Oh, and if anyone with knowledge of Canberra or Sydney would like to hazzard a good place to purchase if I decide DIY it would be appreciated.

Oh, :B, any comments on DIY putting windows with frames in, and garage doors, versus paying someone?

Thanks
Rob

[Ashwood]

Hi,

Re doors - you can try putting in roller doors, but don't try doing the panel type doors. Get the pros in for that. Too many variables in terms of alignment, ceiling clearances plus the springs have a very low turn tolerance - meaning if you've not done it before, don't.

Windows are not too difficult if you know how they come together.

Windows options, what are your acceptable parameters in terms of appearance. Perhaps list those options you are considering, then decide your wall type, and the rest in the forum can then advise better.

Cheers.

[Dirty Doogie]

Well I was going to suggest some of the newer tilt a door types - the groovy ones with wood, stainless steel panels on the front. Yes they are very fiddly to instal - but you can get the guys install just the opening frame and then cover that with whatever skin you like - nothing heavy though.

I'm not sure what sort of style or cost you are going for with the garage - but for the side wall windows maybe rescue some second hand casements - jion them all together in panels and then run them on tracks hung over head. But then I just love Centor tracking systems and would slide anything LOL. It is also a lot cheaper.

[Dirty Doogie]

oops - dont know what happened here - heres a pic of a centor hung window set.
Demolition windows jioned in treated pine frame covered with bracing ply which is finished in acrylic texture coat. Window is 1200 high x 2000 long - cost to make up,finish and hang this unit about $200

[mcarthur]

Well I was going to suggest some of the newer tilt a door types - the groovy ones with wood, stainless steel panels on the front. Yes they are very fiddly to instal - but you can get the guys install just the opening frame and then cover that with whatever skin you like - nothing heavy though.

OK - I'll look around for something like that. Do you have any contacts for that (B&D?)? Because later owners (!) may want to use the garage for cars (what a waste :D), I need to have a door that will let at least one vehicle in easily. That probably eliminates sliding doors but not bifolds that would fold out of the way. However, I'd think the cost of the latter is going to be too much.

Having a door with some light-gathering/opening would be really nice. For resale, automation from inside the car seems to be a winner :no:.


I'm not sure what sort of style or cost you are going for with the garage - but for the side wall windows maybe rescue some second hand casements - jion them all together in panels and then run them on tracks hung over head. But then I just love Centor tracking systems and would slide anything LOL. It is also a lot cheaper.

Thanks - will look into Centor. Casements in Canberra don't seem to come up nearly as much as Sydney/Brisbane :C. I may be up in Sydney in the next weeks though - are there particular places I could go to find secondhand windows/frames?

Thanks
Rob

[Eli]

That's cool DD.

My .02
I'd get some salvage windows as stated for the top of the side brick walls. Maybe not used, but overstock, or a custom size return check your local door and window specialty place, they always have something somebody special ordered they want to move. Sound is important here if I'm not mistaken.

I vote roll-up door for the front, but not the metal kind. Don't you guys have tracked, connected panel doors? These can have windows in one or more panel sections, and a really good installer can cut and open the tracks so they run high in the ceiling. Otherwise you're adding that big tube of tin can at the top of your front door.

The back wall conventionally framed and insulated, with fire rated door. Great for sound.
Put the window at bench height (Groggy) or the sliding window assembly like DD said.

I'd drop the ceiling a bit and insulate. This will go a long way towards controlling sound as well. If it were me with your concerns, I'd frame conventionally inside the brick as well, but this is obviously more cost.

So I'd get the doors and windows, the roll-up door (if you can afford only this, then this is the first step), then price out the framing and insulation. At least a thousand bucks?

[Dirty Doogie]

HI Eli and Rob - centor do make curved track so that a line of doors will slide around and sit against a side wall - i have used it and it is brilliant! But yikes the cost ! Something like $500 and a min 1200 radius which means you need about 600 mm of wall next to the opening to cover the curve.

I think B &d can offer the groovy new styles and a new mechanism gives wider and higher doors. I dont know anything about where to get windows or doors down there - sorry.

Centor have a web site www.centor.com.au (http://www.centor.com.au)

If you want to get new bifold or stacking doors and windows they are likely to be at least $1000 a lineal metre installed. But they are nice - bit posh for a garage though lol! Centor actually make all the fittings for them.

Cheers

[mcarthur]

Thanks Eli:



I'd get some salvage windows as stated for the top of the side brick walls. Maybe not used, but overstock, or a custom size return check your local door and window specialty place, they always have something somebody special ordered they want to move. Sound is important here if I'm not mistaken.

Good idea on the overstock. I can certainly muck around with the sizing (if I'm installing) and just fit larger surrounds (don't know the technical terms :p). Sound is top of the list otherwise I won't be allowed to use the workshop :(. Actually, while perception is probably more important than fact in terms of sound, I'm off to buy a cheapy sound meter (http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/47991810031ac6ea2740c0a87f9c06eb/Product/View/Q1461) today to assist with both ($49 @ DSE).


I vote roll-up door for the front, but not the metal kind. Don't you guys have tracked, connected panel doors? These can have windows in one or more panel sections, and a really good installer can cut and open the tracks so they run high in the ceiling. Otherwise you're adding that big tube of tin can at the top of your front door.

I've been thinking that doors that can handle getting sound insulation attached is needed - hence not a straight rollup. The tracked/multi-panel sound good (sic). From what you say, they are installer jobs rather than (bad) home handyman style :rolleyes:.


The back wall conventionally framed and insulated, with fire rated door. Great for sound.
Put the window at bench height (Groggy) or the sliding window assembly like DD said.

Back wall is already enclosed brick with a storeroom - no probs there. Windows will be too high for benchwork, so I'm sliding towards sliding.


I'd drop the ceiling a bit and insulate. This will go a long way towards controlling sound as well. If it were me with your concerns, I'd frame conventionally inside the brick as well, but this is obviously more cost.

Fortunately it's a high gable roof with plasterboard ceiling: I can just get up there and install normal house insulation. However, will house insulation provide any sound insulation... hmm.

Framing the inside brick is a good idea - this (http://www.how2plaster.com/sound/compare.html) shows around a 20db loss for 2-layer 10mm plasterboard.


So I'd get the doors and windows, the roll-up door (if you can afford only this, then this is the first step), then price out the framing and insulation. At least a thousand bucks?

Thanks Eli. It's a lot better than $12-15K for a new slab + shed + electricals +++ down the back of the yard. BUT only if the sound problem can be fixed....

Rob

[mcarthur]

HI Eli and Rob - centor do make curved track so that a line of doors will slide around and sit against a side wall - i have used it and it is brilliant! But yikes the cost ! Something like $500 and a min 1200 radius which means you need about 600 mm of wall next to the opening to cover the curve.

I think B &d can offer the groovy new styles and a new mechanism gives wider and higher doors. I dont know anything about where to get windows or doors down there - sorry.

Centor have a web site www.centor.com.au (http://www.centor.com.au)

If you want to get new bifold or stacking doors and windows they are likely to be at least $1000 a lineal metre installed. But they are nice - bit posh for a garage though lol! Centor actually make all the fittings for them.

Cripes :oo::oo:.

Hmm, if the garage was to become a (posh) rumpus, I'd be tempted by nice bifolds, but I can't see that happening. Thanks for the headsup but I think it's out of my, and the houses, league.

Rob