Fluro tubes

[Furious]

Hi Guys,

Now before you tell me to get an professional, i'm not going to. So best I do it with some advice rather than just do what I think.

Ok, i'm going to wire up some fluorescent fixtures into an office.

Each tube is 40w, there are 2 tubes per fixture and 6 fixtures in total. So that means 480 W in total.

Am i right in saying that I can wire all fixtures up to the same circuit?

For memory the maximum Watts per circuit is 2400 so I think it's cool. But want to make sure.
<!-- / message -->

[SilentButDeadly]

Given that you don't seem to know that watts aren't actually the important part of the equation........then I'd have to say that hiring a professional is the only advice one can give.

[Cliff Rogers]

Hopefully you are not a troll. :rolleyes:

There is NO maximum number of points laid down in the standard so there is no simple answer without knowing all the variables of the installation.

You select the circuit breaker to suit the maximum demand & then you have to select the conductor size to suit the circuit breaker taking into account the length of the run & environmental consideration of the run.

[NCArcher]

What an idiot. :doh:
Awesome first post.

[Chesand]

Might be his last if he goes ahead with that attitude

[blackhole]

Do you really want to switch on 6 lights at once????????

[Furious]

Hopefully you are not a troll. :rolleyes:

There is NO maximum number of points laid down in the standard so there is no simple answer without knowing all the variables of the installation.

You select the circuit breaker to suit the maximum demand & then you have to select the concuctor size to suit the circuit breaker taking into account the lenght of the run & environmental consideration of the run.

Thanks cliff, for the only sensible answer to my question.

I think I will get a mate of mine (who is an electrician) to advise me first, then just do the work my self.

[NCArcher]

Give your mate a slab of beer. At least it will be done properly and legally.

[patty]

Now before you tell me to get an professional, i'm not going to
With that sort of opening comment I take it you were ready for rejection then?

For memory the maximum Watts per circuit is 2400 so I think it's cool.
Might not be cool after the office catches fire!

Am i right in saying that I can wire all fixtures up to the same circuit?
NO you are not right you are breaking the law and placing yourself and others at risk!

2 Points given for Maths....... 80 watts multiplied by 6 equals 480 watts very good

I take it you will perform a risk assesment before carrying out this work and dont forget to include yourself on this list!!!

Notify your Sparky mate when you are about to start work so he can ring 000 and have the paramedics on standby!!!!


cheers
Furious toooo

[Smurf]

Only serious comment I can make here is that 480 watts isn't the issue. It's the current - are these lights low or high power factor? If low then you'll be drawing around 6 amps, half that for high power factor (very rough figures here).

That said, 6 amps probably won't set anything on fire as long as there's proper circuit breakers installed. No guarantee you won't find them constantly tripping due to overload however.

If someone asks me to confirm that the replacement flexible cord they're fitting to a lamp is OK before they switch it on then to me that's fairly reasonable to answer. They know they're not an expert, it's a simple job and just want to make sure they have it right. Fair enough. But asking how to wire the room up is a different matter. Like asking a doctor for advice on DIY heart surgery versus checking the bandage you applied to a minor cut.

I'm wondering why anyone would use 40 watt tubes in a new installation? They're not easy to get these days and really only used in old transformer start fittings. 36 watt replaced them a couple of decades ago...

[dan76]

why not mount the lights and run the cables and then get your mate to fit off?

[nev25]

Give your mate a slab of beer. At least it will be done properly and legally.

No it wont be Legal

An electrician is not insured or license to give advice on electrical wiring
Only an electrical Inspector is
SO both could be in the S**T if caught

$12000 someone got fined recently
They are cracking right down on this kind of thing

[patty]

<TABLE class=tborder id=post667847 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_667847 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #663333 1px solid">I think I will get a mate of mine (who is an electrician) to advise me first, then just do the work my self.
<!-- / message --></TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #663333 1px solid; BORDER- #663333 0px solid; BORDER- #663333 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #663333 1px solid">I think NCarcher just read the the first part of the thread from the fast and the furious without realising that he was still going to do the work himself </TD><TD class=alt1 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #663333 1px solid; BORDER- #663333 0px solid; BORDER- #663333 0px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #663333 1px solid" align=right><!-- controls --></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[China]

Why is anybody even bothering to entertain this fellow

[Colin Howkins]

Sounds like an ex NASA employee. He's obvioulsy been polishing the rocket:D

[abitfishy]

Now before you tell me to get an professional<!-- / message -->

My only advice - its 'a professional' not 'an professional'.

:doh:

[NCArcher]

No it wont be Legal

An electrician is not insured or license to give advice on electrical wiring
Only an electrical Inspector is
SO both could be in the S**T if caught

$12000 someone got fined recently
They are cracking right down on this kind of thing

Actually i meant he should give his mate a slab to do the work for him because he is obviously too cheap to pay an electrician.
Anyone can give advice on electrical wiring. An inspector is employed to ensure your work conforms to the regs not to give advice.
Most electrical contractors have professional indemnity insurance so they can give as much advice as they like, good and bad.

[elkangorito]

I wonder if the "someone", who purportedly got fined, was an electrician or not? Does this spell "the end" for DIY forums in the consumeristic world of "suing" & "fines"?

In the meantime, the OP didn't say whether he planned to use inductive ballasts or electronic ballasts. Since he quoted the use of old 40 Watt tubes, I can only assume that inductive ballasts will be used. Whether they be High Power Factor or Low Power Factor ballasts will not change the fact that the inductive ballasts will use about an extra 10 Watts of power each. So, 12 x 40 Watt fluorescent lights plus ballasts will equal about 600 Watts minimum.

As stated before by others, this figure is nonconsequential because the AS 3000 wiring rules suggest that 1.5mm squared cable must be used as a minimum size, for lighting circuits. This cable must be protected by a circuit breaker no bigger than 15 Amps. In terms of power, single phase 15 Amps at unity Power Factor equals about 3600 Watts.

Anyway, there is no way that the OP can legally do this work disregarding the amount of advice given...unless of course, he is a licenced electrician. At any rate, he must contract a licenced electrician to do the work, which makes his initial requests redundant.

To the OP...cease & desist from all further questioning. Hire an electrician to do the work for you & let him/her worry about the detail. Penny pinching will put you in hospital.

[nev25]

Most electrical contractors have professional indemnity insurance so they can give as much advice as they like, good and bad.


Not in Vic they dont

[Smurf]

Not in Vic they dont
Interesting this one since I'm a licensed electrician.

In Tas you need to be an electrical contractor (which you can't be if you don't have insurance) to "enter into a contract for the performance of electrical work". In short, if there's some sort of payment involved in return for doing electrical work then it's a contract as far as this law is concerned.

An electrician, as opposed to a contractor, can't enter into such a contract. However, you can have one licensed contractor with an unlimited number of employee electricians and those electricians can advise customers, enter into contracts etc on behalf of the business (ie the contractor).

A non-contractor electrician can also do unpaid work. For example, for charity or on property they own.

The contractor does not need to be the actual employer. For example, anyone can own an electrical contracting business without any training or license. They just have to employ a licensed contractor and give them authority over the technical aspects of the work being done (this includes making sure adequate resources are available etc).

The contractor doesn't necessarily have to be involved in any job being done and doesn't even need to be in the same location. For example, at work our licensed contractor is in Hobart but that doesn't stop employees in Burnie (350km by road) doing work that the contractor never sees.

The contractor does need to sign the paperwork though. However, they can nominate someone to sign on their behalf (must be an electrician or another contractor) with the approval of the Regulator.

Any defects etc come back to both the contractor, as the one responsible for the business, and to the electrician who did the work. In Tas an electrician also has to sign (as well as the contractor) to say the job has been tested and complies with AS3000 and it is the electrician that is held responsible for their own work.

As for the advice, I'm not aware of any rules about that here. A contractor needs to be able to provide technical advice to their employees if required but there's nothing to stop any electrician advising the public on what work is required, that their installation is / isn't safe etc.

As for inspectors, they will give advice on AS3000 matters only if you can convince them you've looked in the book first and need something clarified. If not then they'll just direct you to look in AS3000.

Aurora (the electricity company) will provide advice on their requirements for metering, where to connect to the supply, what type of meter panel is required, how to fill their forms out and so on but not on wiring rules. Also they provide general non-wiring advice to the public on size of hot water cylinders, types of heating, lighting, available tariffs etc.

There's also a third category of "license" issued directly by Aurora. It allows licensed contractors to open Aurora's equipment, adjust time switches, reconnect supply, install meters and the like. That license is at Aurora's discretion and is not automatically issued - must be a person of good character etc since it allows breaking and fitting of meter seals etc (such contractors are issued with a meter sealing tool).

Any electrician can open Aurora's equipment to disconnect supply if there's an immediate safety problem that can't otherwise be overcome (eg damaged mains, switchboard fire) but only their authorised contractors or Aurora employees are allowed to reconnect.

Those Vic rules seem rather harsh to me. Probably come in here someday though.

[nev25]

Yeah its pretty much the same here in Vic

Here in Vic we (Electrical Contractors) only have to $5M Public Liability
Not Public Indemnity

Electrical Inspectors are suppose to have Public Indemnity to advise us on rules and regs (as you have stated)

Interestingly enough Energy Safe Victoria (Chief Electrical Inspector) introduced a Home Safety Inspecting scheme
http://eservices.esv.vic.gov.au/esvext/hsi/index-cust.asp
The Idea was that Contractors can become licensed to do electrical safety audits on houses
I did the course and was told at the end that to obtain the license we had to get Public indemnity Insurance
My Insurance company quoted me $1500 a year on top of my $500 public Liability
Hence not to many Contractors took on the license.

I'm interested in why in Tas you have to have Public indemnity insurance (to give advice to people on doing electrical work that they are not allowed to do anyway????)

Also what is the License called to allow you to change meters.
Here in East Vic we come under SP-AUSNET and they wont allow us to replace meters etc even tho Ive done the training (Some parts of the state come under different Supply Authority's and I'm told allow this work).

[OLDPHART]

Silence is golden!:2tsup:

[Cliff Rogers]

Silence is golden!:2tsup:
May be the power is off at the main switch. :think: :D