Decided I should use plumber.... any advice?

[Gooner]

I am in the process of renovating an ensuite and have a plumbing question.

At first I was going to do the plumbing myself, but have since changed my mind. (Yes, I did read the threads related to "am I allowed to do it myself". It was hard work).

I have gutted the ensuite completely. Only ceiling and floorboards remain.

My thinking is that I call in a plumber now to do all the plumbing. However, the floor will be tiled, so does the sewerage pipe need to be plumbed now before the floor is done, or after? In general, how much can the plumber do at this stage?

I have attached an image as a reference. (I have since cleared out all the clutter in the photo). I am wondering how long (ballpark of course) it would take a plumber to the job considering the following;

- Single story house with very good under-house access
- The shower pipes on the back wall remain as they are, however I want a mixer rather than two taps.
- Some basin taps can be seen on the left hand side of the photo. I want to move these to the right hand wall.
- I am installing a new toilet in this room. No existing toilet. The main swerage pipe already runs almost inline with where I want to install the new toilet, so the PVC plumbing required (I assume) should be trivial.
- Toilet will obviously need a water line.

The main point here is that under house access is excellent and the room is gutted . How much time and $$ do you plumbers out there predict it should cost. (I know this is hard to estimate). I want to know by how much this is going to break the budget. I have never used a plumber before. Not sure what to expect.

Any plumbers in the outer eastern Melbourne suburbs (Mooroolbark) interested the job?? :U

[wonderplumb]

Best advice I can give is to pick out your PC items first (basin/vanity, WC, mixers etc ) so your plumber knows what hes working with, without looking at it properly Id say a day for the rough in part of it plus materials, which will be dependant on how far, copper or plastic for the water, if the floor is already tiled he may hire a core hole drill for the WC waste etc. Best thing to do is get him over for a look, it wont (or shouldnt ) cost you anything for him to have a look and he will then be able to give you an idea. Dont be afraid to call a plumber champ, we're not all that bad!!:D

[atregent]

I had a plumber come and do some work for me a while ago, might give you a ballpark guesstimate.

I had new hot and cold pipes run for a sink in the new pantry, a cold pipe for the new loo, and new drains for them both. It was all brand new work, nothing existing, cost me $700 (cash, of course) over two visits.

The first round of work was to install the new pipework, took about 4 or 5 hours, then, after I had tiled the new loo room (a couple of weeks later), he came back and installed the new pan and cistern, which took about 1.5 hours. Similar to you, single story house, good underfloor access.

But as WonderPlumb says, don't be afraid to call one up for a quote (although, this time of year, you may be in trouble!)

[Gooner]

I had new hot and cold pipes run for a sink in the new pantry, a cold pipe for the new loo, and new drains for them both. It was all brand new work, nothing existing, cost me $700 (cash, of course) over two visits.



Thanks for the response. Hmmmm.. You see, I think I could do it myself for under $100, so paying $700 kinda annoys me. I also don't see why I need a plumber to come back to fit the toilet after all the pipes have been run.

What am I legally allowed to do to reduce the amount of work for the plumber? Am I allowed to remove some redundant pipes from the room considering the plumber will come and remove them "properly" from the house?

Thanks.

[wonderplumb]

At the risk of starting a shyte fight about what you can and cant do, and people will say its "the plumbers trying to keep a closed shop" basically your not allowed to touch anything that is connected to an authority's main, be it sewer, gas, water etc. In saying that though your plumber might get you to get under the house and chop out some pipe or whatever under his supervision, as he would rather you got under the house than himself!

[bricks]

Thanks for the response. Hmmmm.. You see, I think I could do it myself for under $100, so paying $700 kinda annoys me. I also don't see why I need a plumber to come back to fit the toilet after all the pipes have been run.

What am I legally allowed to do to reduce the amount of work for the plumber? Am I allowed to remove some redundant pipes from the room considering the plumber will come and remove them "properly" from the house?

Thanks.


$100 wont buy you the copper pipe you need to do the job.

[Jacksin]

'Under $100' = wishful thinking.

[Gooner]

$100 wont buy you the copper pipe you need to do the job.

Perhaps. I always tends to underestimate the cost of jobs.

However, there is around 5-6 meters of redundant copper pipe that was used on the old hot water system that is no longer operational. I was thinking of reusing it. Should be enough.

[Uncle Bob]

he would rather you got under the house than himself!

:rotfl:

Especially if it was like one of the jobs I had to do once. The manhole in the floor was about a foot square and about a foot off the ground. You literally had to be a contortionist to get under there. These day's I wouldn't have a snow ball chance in hell fitting down there :)

[bricks]

I would have said $1000 all told, theres at least 2 days labour in doing that. Plus fittings.

Im wondering why your going to buy a (probably) $250 in wall shower mixer, and all your tiles and your new $250 toilet, and re-do your whole bathroom. and your worried about paying a plumber.

Your whole bathroom renovation should cost you $7-8000 minimum, If you have worked it out to be less then I suggest you make sure your numbers are correct.

You want work in this sort of sequence

gut the room
get the plumber in to install the under floor plumbing and inwall water. probably take 1-1.5 days
line the walls, ceiling etc...
water proofing
tiling
get plumber back to install second fix gear.What about power?? ceiling exhaust fans, lights, power points.

[Gooner]

Thanks for your response Bricks.

I have estimated around $5k for the reno which only really includes materials. Say, a multitude number of smaller items not counted for tends to increase the cost by around another $1k. Therefore another $1k for plumbing -is- significant as I see it as a very small plumbing job. Perhaps I am missing something.

I am still doubting that it would take a plumber more than a day on this job. It is a small room and the plumbing is basically already there... it just needs to be moved.

I will be getting a sparkie in to add in a ceiling, fan, light, power points, etc. Don't want to be messing around with that myself.

I will post back when I get some quotes.

Thanks again for your response.

[bricks]

on a smaller job like this, I normally work out what it's going to cost for the materials, then add 25% for sundry items.

Most times it's reasonably hard to estimate the plaster, nails, glue, paint, screws, timber etc.. that are going to pop up through out the course of the job.

I often find that it costs just as much to lay a tile as it does to buy it in the first place.

[Gooner]

Well... I started to do some "preparation" before calling a plumber to get the cost down.

My "preparation" got out of hand and before I knew it I bought a BernzOmatic MAPP torch and some silver solder and started joining a few pipes..... Joined a few pipes to the mains..made a few mistakes... had a few leaks... had to go without water for a day...(sent the wife off to the inlaws)..... had to redo some of the job.... Third time lucky.

So far it's cost me $350 and haven't started the sewerage part yet.

Costs add up quickly when you go out and buy a MAPP gas torch, a whole bunch of copper capillary joints, brass wall fittings, stop cocks, some lengths of copper pipe, silver solder (2% and 15%), flux, pipe clasps, galvonised nails, emery paper, steel wool, pipe cutter, some compression fittings, thread sealing paste, teflon tape, and wood for noggings.

At least I've learnt a new skill :2tsup:

I'm leaving my new plumbing work exposed for another 2-3 weeks to make sure I don'thave any leaks. I'm quite confident that my joins are good. I'm just not happy that the shower mixer needs compression joints and that this will be concealed behind the wall.

[juan]

Hey Gooner why don't you do the electrical as well? You could learn some more new skills.
Cheers

[Gooner]

Hey Gooner why don't you do the electrical as well? You could learn some more new skills.
Cheers

I know what you're saying.... but.... I have excellent access under the house and use it as a mini workshop. As a result, I can see the result of my plumbing at minimum on a weekly basis. Therefore *IF* something does happen I will pick it up quickly. Also, if the pipes do spring a leak, I have done it in a way that the water will fall straight through onto the ground. (Unless a copper pipe bursts... which I doubt).

I lived in Europe (Germany) for 18 months and over there it is common that people do their own plumbing and electrical work. This is something that suprised me and I'm not saying I completly agree with allowing it (legally). Here it is considered "taboo".

Personally, I will not do the electrical work myself as there are a few things I need to do that require an electrician. But let me ask you this. If you had to, say, move a power point a few feet over and it was a simple matter of disconnecting the power point and reconnecting it further down the wall, would you call an electrician to do it? Probably not, even though legally you should.

It's a matter of assessing the risks involved and deciding on whether you are willing to accept/deal with the consequences of your DIY adventures as long as there is no risk of personal injury to anyone, (except maybe yourself). In my case I am comfortable to deal with the potential consequences of my DIY plumbing.

[wonderplumb]

She'll be right mate, best of luck:2tsup:

[jedmanrocks]

Guys, im sorry but im rolling around the floor laughing. This is the age old dilemma of "how much ill save if i do it myself".
Gooner, u should of found a plumber/ bathroom renovator to do the whole job. It would have saved you time, money, and the big one, a whole heap of stress. I,ll do a quote for you....
Dear Mr Gooner i have pleasure in submitting this quote for your new ensuite,
(day 1) Remove existing PC items, wall and floor tiles and wall linings.
Change plumbing and drainage to suit new fixture positions.
(day 2) Reline walls, Install 90mm cornice and make good all plasterwork.
Prime for waterproofing.
(day 3) Waterproof with CAT 1 membrane. (cpl hours and go surfing:U)
(day 4) Fix wall tiles (supplied by client), grout and recoat waterproofing.
(day 5) Fix out everything on walls, shower taps, shelves, towell rails, etc Lay floor tiles ( supplied by client ).
(day 6) Install toilet and vanity, phone through shower screen order.
Collect money and go surfing.
total cost
$4210.00.
all pc items by client.

decent quality pc,s for this job prob about $2000.00 max.
I used to be a "do it yourselfer" until i got pretty quick at what i do and i realised your better off to do what u do well and let others do what they do well. Happy renovating!

[bricks]

That quote is pretty standard,

I'll give you another tip tho gooner,

Allot of times for a DIY'er to go out and buy what they need to do the job will cost them more than if I go out and buy it all and install it.

Why because I get huge discount from the suppliers, For instance a Caroma Concorde pan and cistern

retail-$300
my price-$120That leaves you with $180 for me to install it

I do understand that you'd like to do alot of the work yourself, but I think maybe you've underestimated the cost involved, that said- If you draw up a detailed drawing, and take good pictures of what you've done I'll let you know if your making any huge mistakes. Just don't go nut's if I tell you you need to rip it all out- considering you'll be getting my time for free.

[Gooner]

This is the age old dilemma of "how much ill save if i do it myself".

Gooner, u should of found a plumber/ bathroom renovator to do the whole job. It would have saved you time, money, and the big one, a whole heap of stress. I,ll do a quote for you....

Nah.. It's not primarily about saving money. It's about doing it myself. It is a project. Trust me, I have learnt many times over that most bigger DIY jobs end up costing just as much or more than calling someone in. Just a couple of months ago I decided to polish my own floorboards. It took 3 solid weeks and cost me just as much as calling someone in to do it.

However, am I happy I did it myself? Damn right. Do I (and my wife) give me a pat on the back every time I sit back and admire the result? Damn tooting.

The bathroom renovation is not a stress job. I can take my time about it. We are in no rush.

I have a 41 step plan on how to do it, and slowly I am getting through it. Cost to me? I estimate around $6000 easily. Maybe $7000. If it costs more, then so be it.

Quality of the job? Well I take my time and research a lot. If I spend 2 hours doing something, I have probably researched it for about 5 hours. If it doesn't turn out right I have no problem ripping it out and starting again. (I did this 4 times with the plumbing before I was happy with it :)



Allot of times for a DIY'er to go out and buy what they need to do the job will cost them more than if I go out and buy it all and install it.


Part of the fun is going out and finding the shower we are happy with.. the tiles we want…. Finding the solution for how we lay it out and what kind of vanity we should get, etc etc.

In the end it will be yet another room I can walk into and feel proud I did it myself. I know the effort I put into it and will be confident that I did it right.

For a DIY type of forum, gee you guys can be killjoys :q:q