12v LED Downlights or Halogen?

[Damon_11]

Hi All,

Was searching for some threads on 12v LED lights and people's comments on their experiences so far.

I currently have 10 x 12v Electronic transformer MR16 Halogen gimbal downlights that I bought on ebay about 6 months ago for $100 but have not yet installed them.

I have seen plenty of ads for 12v 3W LED's and am wondering if it is going to be worth the expense at $6 - $20 a pop to make the switch now.


Do they give the same light coverage
Are they really low heat?
Am I going to require less - I was planning 6 x 12v wide angle halogens for the kitchen
Can I now run with LED's on less number of transformers.On Ebay there's quite a few from Hong Kong and China - are these to be avoided?
http://search.ebay.com.au/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=12v+led+mr16

Your comments appreciated....DC :U

[Harry72]

Go neither... there are fluro downlights available, they work a lot better than the 1st gen ones. They cost approximately $25~30 per fitting, they soon pay for them selfs not just in power saved but also in cooling costs(a large room full of HL's takes more cooling power).
The 11w fluro's are just as bright as a 50w HL, the downlight gimbals are just the standard 240V GU10 fittings, I think there are conversion kits to convert the MR16's to GU10's(heard about not seen?).

[markypdisco]

I went 35w halogen in my bathroom. I spoke to the tech guy at the led manufacturer and he said that due to the light beamfocus(!) they would be better in cabinets to illuminate objects rather than a room. he said give it 2-3 years and the tech would be better.

the 35w do run cooler than 50s, and im hoping that when the bulbs go i can put leds in...... possibly..

in england were glad of the heat anyway!! :D

[Metung]

Just put in a couple of large (120mm dia) fluro downlights over the new jarrah island bench and I am disappointed with them because they are not bright enough. I think the current globes are 9 watts so I'm hoping if I up the anti there things may improve.

[Harry72]

Metung, grab some 13w they are very bright...

[malb]

Metung, Go with higher powered CFLs as Harry suggested. 9W would be equivalent to about 40W in a normal incandescant. In turn that would be in the order of 10 to 15 W in a halogen.

I am running 15W Toshiba daylight Neoballs in open bayonet fittings right through the house and they are bright, verging on too bright in study and library. They are 75W equiv (incandescant) but a true white rather than yellowish like an incandescant, so they seem brighter than normal 100W .

They are spiral wound, and similar size to a standard bayonet incandescant, about 3mm shorter overall and 8mm narrower, so they will fit anywhere where the incans will.

What are the reflectors in the fittings like, polished metal, white enamel? The only thing that I can think of that might affect pattern and brightness is that CFL's are much further away from a point source than incans, so the focus and pattern control may not be as good, resulting in a lower effective brightness.

[ljcox]

Malb,
Where did you buy the Neoball lights?

I live in Forest Hill, so somewhere in the eastern suburbs would suit me best.

Len

[pharmaboy2]

Just put in a couple of large (120mm dia) fluro downlights over the new jarrah island bench and I am disappointed with them because they are not bright enough. I think the current globes are 9 watts so I'm hoping if I up the anti there things may improve.

metung, i just went through the process with a lighting designer, and for rask lighting over benches he said halogen were the only option, because you want focussed light not diffused light for kitchen situations (assuming your island bench is in fact in a kitchen). Further he recomended the 35w IR globes at 1100 spacings (12v gimble fittings) maximium (60o for a 2.4 or 2.7m ceiling, 38o for my 3.2m ceiling).

The CFL GU10 fittings are extremely diffuse and not even 50% of a 50w halogen - possibly as good as a std 35w in a real stretch but a good match for my 20watters . As to power usage, if you are using 35w halogen IRC's versus a 15w (butt ugly? ;) ) CFL - compare that to the 300 or 400w your computer is dragging, or the 400w the TV's pulling etc etc. the 20w difference equates to 0.02 * 0.14c per hour, or .0028 - 2 hrs a night times 365 days a year is $1. per year. If your power bills anything like mine, thats less than 1/1000th of the yearly bill!.

[Damon_11]

Hi All, thanks for your replies so far. I have been reading elsewhere on the net and some say that LED's do not work on Electronic transformers?? Why would that be the case?...DC

[elkangorito]

Hi All, thanks for your replies so far. I have been reading elsewhere on the net and some say that LED's do not work on Electronic transformers?? Why would that be the case?...DC

Electronic transformers (as such) supply A.C.
L.E.D's require D.C.

[Smurf]

metung, i just went through the process with a lighting designer, and for rask lighting over benches he said halogen were the only option, because you want focussed light not diffused light for kitchen situations (assuming your island bench is in fact in a kitchen). Further he recomended the 35w IR globes at 1100 spacings (12v gimble fittings) maximium (60o for a 2.4 or 2.7m ceiling, 38o for my 3.2m ceiling).

The CFL GU10 fittings are extremely diffuse and not even 50% of a 50w halogen - possibly as good as a std 35w in a real stretch but a good match for my 20watters . As to power usage, if you are using 35w halogen IRC's versus a 15w (butt ugly? ;) ) CFL - compare that to the 300 or 400w your computer is dragging, or the 400w the TV's pulling etc etc. the 20w difference equates to 0.02 * 0.14c per hour, or .0028 - 2 hrs a night times 365 days a year is $1. per year. If your power bills anything like mine, thats less than 1/1000th of the yearly bill!.
I keep hearing this 400W computer stuff everywhere. Mine measures 130W under normal use (not including speakers or printer which are normally idle). That's with a CRT monitor too.

Anwyay, agreed about halogens and focused light. That's the ONLY thing that makes them an acceptable light source since their actual efficiency is otherwise dreadful. But factor in close to 100% utilisation of the light produced and it starts to become more reasonable. Other light sources may well produce the light more efficiently, but they waste half the light produced.

So halogens are fine for high intensity lighting over small areas where the ratio of wall area to lighted horizontal surface area is high. But they're an outright dud in terms of efficiency when used to light large areas in shopping centres etc.

[Harry72]

"metung, i just went through the process with a lighting designer, and for rask lighting over benches he said halogen were the only option, because you want focussed light not diffused light for kitchen situations (assuming your island bench is in fact in a kitchen). Further he recomended the 35w IR globes at 1100 spacings (12v gimble fittings) maximium (60o for a 2.4 or 2.7m ceiling, 38o for my 3.2m ceiling)."

I've got 10 CFL globes in my kitchen... they are almost to bright. They arent normal downlights they are rail mounted GX53's (http://www.austrabeam.com.au/product/Eco-lite%20Energy%20Smart%20Lighting/Ikon%20%28A99034%29.asp). There are no blind spots as the light comes from many directions.
Focused light in a kitchen you would need heaps of HL's, add them up at a $1 per year each, plus all the extra heat that they generate(thats 500w worth, using 50w'ers). I can understand a couple HL's in high use spots, like the stove.
Considering many new house's nowdays have upwards of 20 HL's that run for 4~8hrs every day!
The BIL(industrial sparky)worked out if he changed all his HL's over to CFLs he would save approx $200 per year!(including a couple bulb changes) He also priced out how much it would have cost if he started with the CFL's instead of the HL's... an extra $250! He would have gained his extra cost back in little over a year and not have to change a bulb for years.

I've gotten that way now that HL's dont appeal to me as they put a yellow tinge on everything... I prefer the cool blues and whites of the fluro's!

[Bloss]

Do another search on downlights or CF lamps.

See for example: http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=56714

Compact Fluorescent Lamp downlight fittings are the go 4 for $50 from Bunnings (Nelson brand) and other places.

I have replaced all my 50W halogens with 15W CFs and although they take a minute or so to get to full brightness they are at least as good, save me money and are much much better for the environment.

Can't be dimmed though - I simply added some more switches so I could vary how many were on.