View Full Version : old oak table
cazdids
17th December 2007, 09:06 PM
advice needed , i have acquired a really old oak table that i want to restore ... i dont reaLLY know where to start in the way of finishes ..... any ideas
MacS
17th December 2007, 11:22 PM
To restore is too adjust, repair, and make corrections without removing the original finish.
To refinish, is too remove the coatings and the finish by stripping it down to the white wood, and then finishing the piece again.
Tell us the problems with the table.
astrid
18th December 2007, 06:51 PM
To restore,
Oxford concise
..2.(Attempt to) bring back to the original state by rebuilding, repairing, repainting,emending ect...
..3. reinstate to bring back to dignity or right
Sorry caz, just correcting a misconception.
Do you want this table to look new when its finished or retain the old look, but make it old but loved instead of old and neglected.
Send some pictures if you can or describe the problems that it has.
how old is it and where did you get it?
there is almost nothing that is unrestorable depending on how much time you want to spend and if your expectations are realistic.
Astrid
cazdids
18th December 2007, 08:58 PM
Sorry for the confusion . Its a really old well worked table somebody has obviously used it to work on , has a few nails banged in it . The grain is really used raised due to the high work on it.
all i want to do is keep its rustic well worked look but make it look loved.
i found it in an old factory i am renovating the factory has been disused for 20 years and before that was a government facility for disabled people i am a carpenter/supervisor so i get first pick
it just looks so rare ,, god knows how much i would pay for the top alone a solid piece of oak 2400 x 950 x 50
i love it 'will post some pics ( just charging the camera )
regards
David
astrid
18th December 2007, 11:53 PM
sounds ike you have a lovely piece there
First strip any old shellac this can be done with meths it will also wash off the dirt.
now assess any repairs that need to be done to the structure.
remove any nails or screws that have been put in to "strenghen " wobbles and assess loose joints. if the legs are loose now is the time to repair.
see how you go and get back.
astrid:)
cazdids
27th December 2007, 06:24 PM
ok cleaned the table and it came up really good and clean . some real bright spark has painted the legs in the past which is proving very hard to scrape off , i also repaired a damaged section with a nice piece of American oak looks really good. the table has separated where it is joined down the middle so will need to cramp that back up ( just thinking of using pva )
i will enclose some photos
cazdids
27th December 2007, 06:31 PM
pictures( i think)
RufflyRustic
27th December 2007, 08:29 PM
Hi Cazdids,
Picture Info here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthread.php?t=36666)
PS Infraview is very handy too.
cheers
WSendy
cazdids
27th December 2007, 11:41 PM
pictures take 2
cazdids
27th December 2007, 11:44 PM
haha just turn your heads
MacS
28th December 2007, 01:11 AM
Do you have any Lacquer Thinner or Acetone, I think it could use a good after wash to clean it up the table.
Another sugesstion is after its washed down, is to use some Oxalic Acid to take out the yellow and lighten up the woods color.
The PVA should work if thats all you have.
Now, your moving right along, keep it up.
astrid
28th December 2007, 08:30 AM
get some stripper on the painted bits, then sand the whole thing to about 180 grit.
assess the stains. if its been used as a workbench there is probably oil on it.
get as much as you can off with turps and fine steel wool.
Then sprinkle talkum powder on and place an old tea towel over it.
use a fairly warm iron to absorb the oil.
this may get some of the oil marks off.
when you get this far post a close up pic of the top and i may be able to assess what next best step is.
deep black stains are usually caused by ink or iron and oxalic acid is good,
but dont wash down the whole top yet. place a pad of cotton wool over the black stain and dribble the oxalic into it so it dosnt wet the area surrounding the stain.
be careful not to contact or inhale. apparently its not as inoccuous as the lable suggests
Use your iron and a damp cloth to stream out dents and any markd where the timber isnt broken, this wont work when the fibres are broken like deep scars and scraches, but is good on dents.
leave the split until most of the prep work is done.
Ill keep an eye out for next post
Astrid:)
cazdids
28th December 2007, 10:09 AM
heat gun or paint stripper ? thanks for replys
astrid
28th December 2007, 10:56 AM
either or both depending on which works best on the type of paint.
Id probably use a gun first if youve got one but watch for scorching.
Paint stripper can turn the paint into a slurry, and if the grain is raised you can end up rubbing the paint in instead of removing it.
and speaking if scorching, are those black spots on the top burn marks?
Astrid
MacS
28th December 2007, 11:23 AM
If you have Lacquer Thinners or Acetone I would try either one of these first.
You could also add the Meths to the Lacquer Thinners, they make a good dye stain remover. Use a nylon scrubbing pad.
Paint remover is safer then using aheat gun, they usually end up burning the wood causing another problem for you.
I would rather you try sanding with different grits of sandpaper.
cazdids
28th December 2007, 05:45 PM
the paint stripper is working great thanks..... haha i think the black spots are rain . it was spitting wen i took the picture ........ there is i really dark spot at one end that looks like oil ........
MacS
28th December 2007, 08:15 PM
Try re-scrubbing it with the solvents, if that don't help, then pour on some liquid detergent on the spot, allow it to soak in for ten minutes, and then brush on some very hot water, and then repeat the process..
If it comes out, then you will have to sand the wood so its ready for finishing.
Good Luck
Mac
ubeaut
28th December 2007, 11:10 PM
Really hard to tell from the pictured as they are a bit small, but it looks to me like you might have a Kauri table top with the typical blackwood or maybe Kauri legs rather than Oak. Could be wrong, but it doesn't look like oak to me.
Cheers - Neil :)
astrid
29th December 2007, 07:50 AM
we'll have a better idea when it's clean!
If you use detergent on it watch out for the dye in it or you can end up with green stains
Astrid:U
MacS
29th December 2007, 08:07 AM
Neil,
I agree with you, it don't look like Oak wood to me either, cleaning the wood won't change the woods graining pattern that never changes.
Cazdids, any luck with the 'oil stain".
MacS
29th December 2007, 08:53 AM
Don't be too concerned about the liquid detergent staining your wood, as your going to flush it off with hot water.
Most detergents use anionic dyes, which actually are micronize pigmemts in water soluble suspensions, and will wash right out.
I just hope, it removes the stain.
astrid
29th December 2007, 09:14 AM
It dosent really matter at this point what it is.
could be mountain ash, blackwood, kauri or origon.
the point is to encourage enthusiasm.
whatever it is it will look great when finished.
Astrid
cazdids
29th December 2007, 09:35 AM
i thought Kauri had a reallytight notty grain,,,hhhhhhhhmmmm
ima not sure think i need some help with this will post a better photo
i was thinking silky oak ( hope it is kauri)
astrid
29th December 2007, 10:36 AM
kauri is pale and tight fairly bland but comes up well with subtle features like bird eyes.
silky oak is almost like snakeskin.
Blackwood is like walnut.
Old mountain ash is often refered to as tasmanian oak because it looks like oak without the radials (little flame like bits running across or diagonal to the main grain) sometimes its hard to tell the difference.
how' s the prep going?
Astrid
woodhunt
29th December 2007, 02:34 PM
My money's on kauri from it's age, form and provenance.
We get these sorting/packing benches in all the time at the antique auction house I work at...
My money is on two strips due to it's grain it can join almost invisibly at times.
cazdids
30th December 2007, 04:10 PM
yeah think your right its defo 2 pieces ( very good grain match) still not sure about the timber yet though,,, but ima no expert being a pom ,,
progress has slowed down due too hot weather ...... its outside stripping paint in 40 degrees or inside sat on my ass sipping smoothies in 25 degrees :U
addy999
31st December 2007, 10:49 PM
Well if you want to restore it try to do th work with care , don't make the original finishing damage....
cazdids
2nd January 2008, 08:51 AM
ok back to it today before i go back to work
finish removing paint , done about 3/4 of it
sand all the legs down
try to remove oil
then ima rub the top down
then i want to keep the rustic look but want to seal it from the weather
any ideas,,,,,, or any other suggestions for the finish
Dave
astrid
2nd January 2008, 09:35 AM
Happy New year to you.
Are you going to keep this outside?
Thats probably OK if its Kauri.
But mountain ash and blackwood hate water. It will rot and go black if it gets wet on a regular basis. even if you use the most water resistant product on the market. water will get in a scratch.
I made the mistake of doing my kitchen benches and bathroom unit in ash and itd not wearing well.
other timbers might be ok, somone else will fill you in when weve identified it.
cheers
Astrid:)
cazdids
2nd January 2008, 09:45 AM
well its going on my deck under a pergola so no more water than external moisture content . ima thinking just a decking oil
what do you think ?
astrid
2nd January 2008, 10:25 AM
I dont do a lot of outdoor stuff so someone else may give better advice.
I would go for a pure oil put on hot to increase the absorbtion.
linseed is cheapest but if you check out some of the other threads on this finishing forum, youll find heaps of info and opinion.
youll have longer drying time with a pure oil but the upside is you can recoat straight on top when it looks a bit tired.
your energy and focus in this heat is amazing:U
Astrid:)
cazdids
2nd January 2008, 10:32 AM
Thanks, i have some tounge oil in my shed that i may use .
i love working so wen ima on my holidays i get bored very easy ..... plus ive got very fixated with this table haha
astrid
2nd January 2008, 10:53 AM
Oh Oh now your in for it.:U
make sure it is pure tung oil.
There have been lengthy discussions.
Check the Tung oil thread about 10-15 threads down
Astrid:)
cazdids
2nd January 2008, 11:34 AM
haha what have i done now ...i used it on my jarah steps i put on my deck and they are fine
i will take a peek at the thead see what it says
David
astrid
2nd January 2008, 11:43 AM
Just joking,
seems if you mention tung oil (or china oil or linseed oil or anything with the with the word oil in it) round here, it provokes intense debate.
Im sure what you have will be fine:U
astrid
cazdids
2nd January 2008, 11:54 AM
ok guys i think these are better ,,,,, tell me what they are put me out of my misery
astrid
2nd January 2008, 12:24 PM
the sideways picture looks like a kauri top and legs with (whats that stripey pine Guys) skirts.
But the top pic puzzles me, are those stripes in the grain or is it wet again:U
try a photo closely focused, without the sun dapples.
Its hard to identify timber generally. Posted pics have to be really clear.
(I'm still struggling with posting pics so I'm not critisizing)
Astrid:)
Ps I think it probably is kauri
cazdids
2nd January 2008, 12:37 PM
ok here i go
astrid
2nd January 2008, 12:44 PM
Either Kauri or very dry origon,
But Im not a timber expert I'll see if i can get one of the timber guys to take a peek as i nkow you want to get on with it today.
Astrid
cazdids
2nd January 2008, 12:47 PM
ok thanks . pretty sure its not oregon
astrid
2nd January 2008, 01:22 PM
One of the guys just had a look and as far as he can tell its either origon or kauri.
sand it up and we'll see.
dont worry old bleached origon is pretty special once sanded and finished.
Astrid
cazdids
2nd January 2008, 01:31 PM
cheers for that i got one of my cabinet making friends coming round he is pretty well up on his timbers .... i will see what he says ............ i am lost with it
he said put a laquer on it not sure about that ..... could i still oil it ???????
astrid
2nd January 2008, 01:39 PM
If its going outside oil is the only way to go IMHO.
(This is where I duck for cover):U
besides that the timber looks pretty dry and needs a feed (oil)
but it will have to be pure oil
Astrid:)
MacS
2nd January 2008, 02:34 PM
Its definitely not Oak.
Whatever, finish you deside to use, do a small section and then wait a week to see if there is any reaction?
Its so much easier to strip that small area then it is to do the whole table.
cazdids
2nd January 2008, 02:59 PM
come on macs ... what timber is it ????????
ima do a test piece underneath save any stripping
MacS
2nd January 2008, 03:37 PM
Do your sample on top, as the bottom is not "aged" unless you want to use the bottom as the top. You want to make sure whatever coating you descide to use that it gets good adhesion, oil can be a tough canidate for good adhesion unless you remove it.
Cadidz, If I knew what it was, I would have told you in the beginning.
With your new photo, you should find out soon.
Good Luck
cazdids
2nd January 2008, 03:49 PM
surely any porous timber would suck the oil in right ?
the only time i have seen a disaster with oil was wen it was sprayed on to a kapour deck ,, dried very thinly then flaked in the sun...... nice
what other thing could go wrong ?
astrid
2nd January 2008, 05:10 PM
yes dry timber will suck it right up because its thirsty.
keep putting it on untill it wont take any more.
but get that sander out and finish the prep first.
then well have another look
I have asked a few of the guys to have a look at your pics and they will get back soon.
a cricket bat has to be fed dosent it?
This is an outdoor table and will be a rustic look not a fine french polish.
you need to preserve the timber and thats what oil is for.
Astrid
cazdids
2nd January 2008, 05:11 PM
ok i just found out what they are
Kauri top (which i am really pleased about)
and Baltic pine legs, am really pleased with
:U
Groggy
2nd January 2008, 05:21 PM
Neil gets the prize then - what is it? (ref post #18)
astrid
2nd January 2008, 05:23 PM
Goodo,
now youve satisfied your curiosity, get the ridges down.
see the cracking on the edge of your pic, that i think is because its very dry.
some of those long scars will steam out, see earlier post.
If the table is as mistreated as this one, your prep is really important to make it gently rustic,
this often takes more time that a fine finish on a dining table.
got to blend its imperfections into a pleaseing whole.
Oh and do make sure your oil dodent have a synthetic hardener or it wont feed the timber just sit on top
have fun
Astrid:)
astrid
2nd January 2008, 06:00 PM
I'm not sure that Niel gets the prize though,
Ive worked a bit with old kauri and never seen raised heartwood (if thats the harder rings) like that.
but i have seen it in dry oregon.
look closely at the last pic.
but I'm not a timber person, I only work with old wood.
Come on guys, anyone else prepared to venture an opinion?
Astrid
MacS
2nd January 2008, 11:16 PM
Cazdids,
Was is determined if the "oil" on the table was a drying or non drying oil to start with, and are you down to the raw wood now.
Neil, was right when he said, it was not OAK, so he will always be half right.
Caz, do an Internet search for photos of those that were already mentioned, you might get lucky and find your answer.
cazdids
2nd January 2008, 11:27 PM
yeah down to the raw wood ,,,, i did a test piece and it sucked it right in was dry in about 5 mins B.E.Autiful
Pure Tung oil
just got to get the sanders out now and ima finished
i have loved doing this table its given me the bug.......
thanks for the comments and help
i will post some photos
David
Groggy
3rd January 2008, 08:59 AM
I'm not sure that Niel gets the prize though,
Ive worked a bit with old kauri and never seen raised heartwood (if thats the harder rings) like that.
but i have seen it in dry oregon.
look closely at the last pic.
but I'm not a timber person, I only work with old wood.
Come on guys, anyone else prepared to venture an opinion?
Astrid
Astrid, cazdids stated in an earlier post that he/she had found out what they are (presumably after a cabinetmaker friend identified them for him). Are you saying he is wrong? :? See the following quote:
ok i just found out what they are
Kauri top (which i am really pleased about)
and Baltic pine legs, am really pleased with
:U
Neil, was right when he said, it was not OAK, so he will always be half right.
Caz, do an Internet search for photos of those that were already mentioned, you might get lucky and find your answer.Again, I'm lost as to why his identification has been discarded without discussion.
cazdids
3rd January 2008, 09:06 AM
Groggy ima not sure what your point is but thanks anyway
i am quite satisfied with the identification
Groggy
3rd January 2008, 09:54 AM
i am quite satisfied with the identificationThat's what I thought. I am just wondering why Astrid and MacS still seem to doubt the identification. :?
cazdids
3rd January 2008, 10:07 AM
well i thought it was oak lol .... never seen kauri before
just because of the grain ( but it was a mess )
can i mix a bit of varnish with the oil ???????????????? just for that extra shine
cazdids
3rd January 2008, 12:24 PM
just oiled pure tounge oil
cazdids
3rd January 2008, 05:09 PM
Could Anybody Hazard A Guess As Too The Age:u
Look Great
astrid
3rd January 2008, 07:59 PM
I think i's about 1920's
Groggy, this isnt a competition,
I have worked a lot with old kauri and have never seen the soft wood shrink away like this, but i have seen it in old really dry oregon.
there is a reason that it matters as that if the timber is this dry, its going to suck up a hell of a lot of oil.
there may be a better way of finishing
my suspision is partly supported by the timber in the skirts that sure as hell aint kauri.
but as i said im not a timber expert and would like somone else to take a look.
Niel is a big bloke and can defend his own corner.
And yes cabinate makers can be wrong just like you and I, especially if you talking old dry timber that they mightn't see so much of
Astrid
cazdids
3rd January 2008, 08:19 PM
i dont think this cabinet maker was wrong he picked them from the other side of the garden ........ and works with kauri all the time....
he said it was very old maybe pre 1900 but legs made later
its just a hobby to me i dont really take it that serious
David
astrid
3rd January 2008, 08:20 PM
Looks really good,:2tsup:
let it dry and put on a few more coats.
next project?
Just cross posted,
I picked 1920's because of the legs, after all a slab of wood is a slab of wood.
I wouldnt add varnish wont stick well to all that oil.
when its well fed and dry. give it a good hard rub.
Astrid
Groggy
3rd January 2008, 09:06 PM
Astrid, I've re-read the thread and my comments and can see why you have interpreted my comments that way, I'm sorry for that, it wasn't my intention. The comment on Neil's post was simply acknowledging his apparent accuracy.
I was interested in knowing why you BOTH seemed not to agree after a cabinet maker has seen the timber first-hand, rather than photos, which make it harder to ID timber. I personally find it difficult to identify wood, it is a skill I don't possess, and, if two experienced people disagree on the identification given, then I figure there must be a reason, therefore something to be learned - hence the confused smiley :? .
astrid
3rd January 2008, 09:54 PM
Not a problem groggy
see you on saterday
Astrid
cazdids
3rd January 2008, 11:41 PM
will post some photos . had 4 coats of oil now
it blistered in parts today because of the heat ,, but thats ok i just sanded scrapped and reoiled ,,, beautiful
astrid
4th January 2008, 12:00 AM
well try to keep it out of the sun, and dust
astrid
MacS
4th January 2008, 12:00 AM
You sound like your loving the finishing, keep it up it gives one a good feeling when it comes out well.
cazdids
4th January 2008, 02:05 PM
yeah sure have enjoyed the finishing......... paint stripping was boring ....
as for my next project ,,, i gotta put more collar ties on my pergola/deck before it blows away lol
also a ceiling in my games room ,,,the gardens,,,,,, my ensuit......
plus starting a 14 million dollar nursing home project at work ,, prolly 60 hours per week
might get time to squeeze something in but i doubt it ..... i have spotted a kauri side board with plate rack ' all painted up for 150 bucks what do you reckon...............worth a go ?
MacS
4th January 2008, 03:00 PM
Buy it, and save it?
Match it up with the table.
astrid
4th January 2008, 06:00 PM
If you didnt enjoy stripping the table legs then you really will hate doing a dresser!!
I did one last year, ended up sending to dippers to get the paint off.
was sealed with calsomine.:no:
Funny that one came from SA as well.
needed a lot of sanding after. but was stunning when finished.
was about 15 hours work involved.
but for $150 bucks I'd go for it.
Find a dipper that uses metholine chloride not costic
somtimes these have old blue or green paint under the top coat so if your clever you can turn it "french provincial"
but be carefull not to shabby chic it.
Astrid:)