Grooves up - how to remove

[w0rksh0p]

Hi folks

I am trying to extend and improve an existing rear deck. The previous owners/builders laid 70x19mm Jarrah decking, but unfortunately they laid it with the grooves facing up, and then stained it with something horrid. In an effort to restore the Jarrah to it's former glory, I am looking at stripping the timber down using a floor sander. Essentially the intention is to remove ~2-3mm, getting rid of the old stain and the grooves in one move.

Has anyone ever tried this?
Does it sound like a reasonable approach to this problem?

[echnidna]

Lift the decking and relay it.

[silentC]

I think my main concern would be that you are reducing the thickness of the boards substantially. To remove all trace of the stain, you're likely going to have to go down to 16mm or even less because the stain will have seeped into the grooves and may be half a mm or so below the surface. I checked an off cut of some of my boards and the depth of the grooves varies between 2 and 3mm. That's quite a bit of material to remove and will take a fair bit of sanding.

I think 16mm is getting a bit on the thin side for boards spanning joists. The minimum thickness specified in the framing manual is 19mm. I've got a feeling that 16mm flooring has to be installed over a particle board floor or similar. What are the joist spans? Maybe if they're close enough, you'll be OK, although I wouldn't like to guess what they should be. Maximum for 19mm decking is 500mm,. so you'd want to be a fair bit under that.

You'll also have to punch all the nails too.

Lifting and relaying might be a bit tricky too. You've got the problem of getting the boards up intact and then you'll have nail holes everywhere, so you either have to try and use the same board in the same spot - in which case you can have trouble with nails finding old holes - or mix them up and then have holes everywhere.

I think I would live with it as it is until it needs replacing.

[w0rksh0p]

Pulling up and relaying was my first consideration. Was going to replace all together with 90mm Merbau (I like the broader boards).

But it feels wrong to waste all the beautiful Jarrah.

I agree that the thickness could be a bit tricky. I wouldn't even think of going thinner if it wasn't hardwood, but my thinking is that ~16-17mm Jarrah would still be OK.

Not sure of the spacings of the joists (am at work at the moment), but I believe they are spaced at around 380-400mm.

The only reason I'm not going with the 'live with it' option is because I'm buildind an ajoining deck, so I want it to match in.

[RufflyRustic]

Personally, I'd try to lift the boards, flip them over and re-attach. Yes, you are going to have to fix holes, redrill, etc, but you won't be wasting the jarrah and this would save you having to sand off the grooves/finish.

Do take this suggestion with a grain of salt, i.e. I have no idea what state the boards will be in if you consider this.

Good luck!

[jmk89]

I agree with the others' views - if you want to make it look good and not lose too much depth, pry the decking off, de-nail and attach the other way over.

Alternatively, when you build your extension, put your effort into making the aesthetics and structures match but use a cheaper, contrasting timber for the decking. Then when both decks are looking tatty, rip all the decking up and put down your matching timber on what (hopefully) will be an integrated structure!

[silentC]

You guys make it sound so easy!

I tried to pull up a bit of decking that I wasn't happy with and it snapped. If twist nails have been used into hardwood joists, it's going to be virtually impossible to get it all up without snapping at least a few and then you've got the problem of replacing the broken ones. If the joists are treated pine, you might get away with it - but usually the intention when fixing a deck down is to not have it come up again easily and it's usually a destructive process. Not to mention the damage you will probably cause to what will become the face with the crow bar and the marks that will be visible from where it sat on the joists.

When it's finished, it's going to look like what it is - second hand decking.

But, that's just my view of it :)

[pawnhead]

Use long sharp hardwood wedges on each joist.
I recently lifted my rear floor this way after I installed some bifolds. The floor was rotten near the old door, and it was a bit up and down as well, so I just lifted it all and bought a few more square metres that I mixed in when I relayed it after I'd packed and planed the joists level.

It came up no problem at all, just hitting each consecutive wedge a little bit at a time, working from one end, and then back again. :2tsup:

[OBBob]

If you sand it you will have the problem of where the stain has gone down between the boards, which you will not be able to remove.

Can you get something to grind the heads of the nails? A few marks wouldn't matter if you were to flip them. I'd suggest punching through ... but again Jarrah is a bit too hard for that sort of thing I'd suspect.

I agree with Silent ... 'cause I broke a number of floor boards whilst trying to do a similar thing.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I reckon Silent has the right of it.

I've pulled up two or three decks, salvaging the timber for the shed, and it wasn't worth relaying. Apart from the problems he already mentioned, there's also:

the fasteners that don't snap pull all the way through - which means either oversized nails next time 'round or nailing anew, leaving lots of old holes... the stain wasn't just on the top of the decks. It had runs and "puddles" on the undersides, which would mean the deck'd need a fair amount of sanding anyway, even after flipping over. (And that's ignoring the sides...) there were also some rotten patches where the boards had sat on the bearers.

Fine for cutting down into pen blanks or box sections, yeah... but for relaying? "When it's finished, it's going to look like what it is - second hand decking." :yes:

[silentC]

I recently lifted my rear floor this wayWas it nailed down with Titadeks? :)

I suppose I'm making the assumption that the deck has been nailed down with what is considered these days minimum fixing for decking. It might be just straight gal flat heads or something, so it might come up easily. Maybe you could grind the heads off, seeing as you'll be putting that side down.

Not really warming to the idea though - but if you're determined, some more food for thought.

[jmk89]

I suppose it also depends on the size of the deck. A few square metres (say up to 10) is fine, even if it is hard work. More than that and you have to ask yourself whether it is worth all the effort!