Election

[Andy Mac]

Couldn't understand the closed election poll thread, so I'll say it here, the poll was wrong...we've got a (I was gonna say Ruddslide) change of government...:2tsup:
Will we have a headache in the morning?


Cheers

[Burnsy]

...we've got a change of government.
Will we have a headache in the morning?



Some already have one, I have heard that there have been some construction contracts over here that have had a 10% premium attached to them (Rudd tax) beacuse companies are worried about what the unions here will do with Federal Liberal out and state Labour already in.

[Studley 2436]

There will be a lot to take notice of in the days ahead.

We have a dithering and shadow of a candidate who is now PM. It remains to be seen how well they can do the job but a fine government has been chucked out for the sake of a change.

Baffles me

Studley

[rod@plasterbrok]

I agree Studley.

I know the building industry will get the shivers.

Small business operators will have to be far more carefull employing people if at all.

It will be interesting to see how well he can controll the Union element and the left. Already Gillard is saying we have a mandate to abollish Work Choices, yet Rudd watered down what they would abollish in the campain. Now it will be interesting to see what he will do.

[les88]

I agree with Studley.... thank the lord I am retired:(:(:(
les

[JDarvall]

Some already have one, I have heard that there have been some construction contracts over here that have had a 10% premium attached to them (Rudd tax) beacuse companies are worried about what the unions here will do with Federal Liberal out and state Labour already in.

Well, don't blame me. I didn't vote for him. :rolleyes: People probably be saying that in a year like they did with all the rest.

Howard was called little johnny. So whats Rudd going to be called ?

[Tonyz]

anyone want to take a wager on how long before Gillard makes a bigger push to be cattle dog.

[Rossluck]

Australians have always vascillated between the left and the right in politics. This means that who we are is located somewhere in the middle. In fact, I think it's fair to say that we like to be somewhere between the European left and the American right. I think it's a great system and one we should be proud of.

I accept that I'm weird, but I sat down at 5.30 to watch the election, switching backwards and forwards between the three channels, sipping wine, and watched it until 9, then 7 faded, and finally the ABC ended it's coverage. To me this is heaven. :U

[obee60]

I work in an industry very heavily reliant on power (electicity). When I turned on the radio this morning I heard a conservationist from whatever green group, spruking the fact Rudd promissed to ratify the Kioto protocol.
If we can't use brown coal and they don't want nuclear, how on earth are we going to power industry?

How long will it be before the radical union organisers crawl from under the rocks they've been hiding under?

With only 7 years until I can retire...............I"M SCARED !!!!:no:

[Harry72]

Before we start bashing we should learn whats ahead...

[Studley 2436]

Harry is on the money. It might end up being a very good government, that remains to be seen. There were many contradictions in the Rudd campaign, such as caring about reducing greenhouse gas and caring that petrol cost too much. If the price of petrol doubled wouldn't it reduce the amount we burn and reduce greenhouse gasses? Just one example. The Rudd government will now have to reconcile those contradictions, how good their government turns out to be will depend on it.

When I was formerly in business the IRC brought in unfair dismissal conditions for small business. I was angry as they were effectively taking away my dream of growing my business and employing people. Unfair dismissal laws make it much more risky to employ people.

Talking about contradictions Rudd's Razor Gang goes up against Rudd's many inquiries. The razor gang aims to cut waste but inquiries increase bureaucracy. Which on we have will be interesting to see.

Of course the other important thing is how the Liberal Party bounces back from it's defeat. A good part of the swing to Labor was due to the big swing against Latham at the previous election and the electorate was returning more to it's normal position. Should the Liberal Party present ideas and focus on balancing the government rather than brawling with itself then our democracy will manage to stay on it's feet and the government will be prevented from wild extravagances.

Studley

[dazzler]

Wow

What a win. Though I didnt vote for Rudd I actually feel pretty good this morning.

The greens preferances got them the extra seats they needed so it will be interesting to watch the power struggle from the greens.

First to go will be the pump mill and will be a real test to see if the greens do have the power.

A simple threat from bob brown that the preferances for the next election will be withdrawn and they are a one term team.

cheers

dazzler

[Andy Mac]

a fine government has been chucked out for the sake of a change.Studley

Doesn't baffle me, I reckon the thought of having Costello as PM was enough to turn the tide! :~

Cheers,

[Rossluck]

This fear of the unions as if Stalin was about to take power in Australia and turn the country into a Soviet Union amuses me. It's reminescent of the "reds under the beds" era and shows how successfully the coalition's PR machine tapped into peoples simple fears.

I think Kevin Rudd made it clear last night that he wants to work against differences identified as the Union/Business, State/Federal, inigenous/non-indigenous dichotomies.

People who start talking negatively about the country's future under Labor are engaging in self-fulfilling prophesies. Even the most red-necky Australian would agree that a lot of the money John Howard was throwing around should be channelled towards improving our health systems.

[obee60]

"Doesn't baffle me, I reckon the thought of having Costello as PM was enough to turn the tide! "

And the tought of Rudd and Gillard as our leaders inspires you ??:doh:

[woodbe]

Australia has spoken.

I salute our new TinTin overlord. May his government be excellent, and may we live in harmony until the next time we get to choose.

woodbe.

[munruben]

I'll reserve judgment. Lets hope the unemployment figures don't skyrocket under the new government like last time they were in. Hope they keep some of their promises. Me? I am looking forward to lightning fast internet connection. :)

[Studley 2436]

"Doesn't baffle me, I reckon the thought of having Costello as PM was enough to turn the tide! "

And the tought of Rudd and Gillard as our leaders inspires you ??:doh:

Nah I reckon they just didn't want Howard any more. Costello has long been the standout performer of the Liberal Government. I don't think there are any feelings at all against Costello.

Studley

[DavidG]

Johnny and his crew did a good job with the economy but they lied, lied, lied.:~
They ran a negative campaign. :no:

People do not like that so out they went. :2tsup:

Next time I will toss the coin (Consider which party will do the least damage) and vote accordingly.



PS: I think some liberal ??economists?? need to do some study as to where the foundations of the present economy were put into place....

[mic-d]

I heard last night that the highest office-holding liberal in Australia is now the Lord Mayor of Brisbane ?

Cheers
Michael

[Sturdee]

. Lets hope the unemployment figures don't skyrocket under the new government like last time they were in.

So you believe the Howard's government lies about unemployment. Currently unemployment is already in the 10 -15 % range and not the 3 percent they claim. :((

Don't forget that everyone who works ONE WHOLE HOUR a week is considered not to be unemployed, neither are the ones on non work participation agreements (study courses, voluntary work etc) hence the lies about the low figures.

Noone in the government would ever release the people officially on New Start allowances because that would expose their lies.

BTW I'm glad we finally got rid of that little bush and his coherts.

Peter.

[obee60]

"BTW I'm glad we finally got rid of that little bush and his coherts."

So you'll be ordering a green cap with a red star attached then Sturdee .
Nah, sounds like you already got a cupboard full !!!!!

[Rossluck]

"BTW I'm glad we finally got rid of that little bush and his coherts."

So you'll be ordering a green cap with a red star attached then Sturdee .
Nah, sounds like you already got a cupboard full !!!!!


:? Reds under the bed? Settle down Obee60.

Anyway, as a leftie and a Labor supporter, I want to say that I respect John Howard and I like him as a person. Goodbye John; I'm not all that happy that you may lose Bennelong. It's not a good way for a prominent Prime Minister to depart.

[echnidna]

So you believe the Howard's government lies about unemployment. Currently unemployment is already in the 10 -15 % range and not the 3 percent they claim. :((

Don't forget that everyone who works ONE WHOLE HOUR a week is considered not to be unemployed, neither are the ones on non work participation agreements (study courses, voluntary work etc) hence the lies about the low figures.

Noone in the government would ever release the people officially on New Start allowances because that would expose their lies.

BTW I'm glad we finally got rid of that little bush and his coherts.

Peter.

Very well said :2tsup:

[obee60]

:? Reds under the bed? Settle down Obee60.

Anyway, as a leftie and a Labor supporter, I want to say that I respect John Howard and I like him as a person. Goodbye John; I'm not all that happy that you may lose Bennelong. It's not a good way for a prominent Prime Minister to depart.

The ex labour Minister quoted as saying "Rudd couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag" hit the nail on the head.

[Sebastiaan56]

So you believe the Howard's government lies about unemployment. Currently unemployment is already in the 10 -15 % range and not the 3 percent they claim. :((

Don't forget that everyone who works ONE WHOLE HOUR a week is considered not to be unemployed, neither are the ones on non work participation agreements (study courses, voluntary work etc) hence the lies about the low figures.

Noone in the government would ever release the people officially on New Start allowances because that would expose their lies.

BTW I'm glad we finally got rid of that little bush and his coherts.

Peter.

What I wont miss is the wedge politics and the incessant picking on the minorities, Aboriginals, Muslims, single mothers and the like. That is of course if Little Kev is true to his word....

Thomas Keneally's piece in the Sun Herald in Sydney is worth reading,

Hey Obee, theyre still executing blacks in Texas, Rudd fought and beat Howard,

Sebastiaan

[obee60]

Rudd didn'y beat Howard.
The IR laws introduced late beat Howard.

And as for picking on minorities........get a grip and have a look at how much we spend on so called minorities !!

I guess the poor white people still being executed in America don't count in your opinion !!

[Geoff Dean]

Howard was called little johnny. So whats Rudd going to be called ?

Its already being used for something else.:D

[Geoff Dean]

What I wont miss is the wedge politics and the incessant picking on the minorities, Aboriginals, Muslims, single mothers and the like. That is of course if Little Kev is true to his word....
Sebastiaan

Yeah, and he'll apologise to everyone, opening us up to huge compensation claims, which he will then have to drain the Future Fund to pay for them, leaving nothing to fund exhorbitant Pollies and Public Servants superannuation payments.

I remember well the last time this mob were in, Libs had to sell all the silverware to get us out of debt. Alas, there is no silverware left, so if the debt levels rise, we all will cop it.:((

[obee60]

Well said Geoff. :2tsup:

Spot on the money :D

[Andy Mac]

And the tought of Rudd and Gillard as our leaders inspires you ??:doh:

Yep.
And I'm over this regurgitated garbage that unions will ruin the country. What was so wrong about the unions and Hawke working together to get every worker in Australia compulsory super? Do only the rich have rights to security in retirement? The previous Labor govt didn't give us high interest rates either, it was a worldwide trend...unless you think they were so powerful as to affect everyone else. Can't blame them alone!!
My take on the (thankfully) previous govt is they increased the divide between the affluent and the rest of us. They pandered to greed and fear. Hopefully we can look to fairer and less greedy future.

Cheers,

[AlexS]

I don't think there are any feelings at all against Costello.

Studley

You're just not looking in the right places.:rolleyes:

[obee60]

"And I'm over this regurgitated garbage that unions will ruin the country. "

You need to get a grip on reality Andy :doh:

As a person who has worked since he was 16 years old, raised 2 children and owns his own home, I suppose I'm what you would consider rich.

And I suppose you also bought Keatings "recession we had to have" line.

Bring out the green caps with red stars again. :doh:

[woodbe]

No need to fight over Costello guys:

Costello turns down Libs leadership


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/25/2100538.htm

The problem wasn't so much that people were against him, it's that few were for him, even though he has done a good job on the economy over the last few years.

[Andy Mac]

You need to get a grip on reality Andy

You're probably right Obee, I just don't like the reality on offer!:D

Anyway, back to wood and metal work, the reality I do believe in.


Cheers, have a good day.

[obee60]

Agreed Andy :D Lets get back to the stuff we truly believe in AND ENJOY :2tsup:

Regards............obee:rolleyes:

[Wood Butcher]

Well the interesting news now is that Costello is not going to be the leader of the Coalition!

Apparently has decided to take a back seat and will probably step down at the next election.

[munruben]

It would appear the Costello will never be PM. In reality, he must hate John Howard.:)

[woodbe]

Or maybe he never really wanted the job that much.

Turnbull would have to be a shoe-in for the position now...

[outback]

I hear Gillard has made a move to topple Rudd as leader of Labour.

























P.S. Could the mods change the date of this post to next week, that should be heaps.

[Big Shed]

It would appear the Costello will never be PM. In reality, he must hate John Howard.:)

He might John, but the reality of politics is that if you want the top job you have to fight for it, Hawke did, Keating did, Howard did, Rudd did and so did plenty of others.

There aren't too many in my memory that had the job handed to them on a plate, maybe Turnbull will have an easy ride now, but being Leader of the Opposition is not quite the same as being PM, is it?

Just wait for Costello to resign his seat, another by-election within 12 months.

There should be a law against politicians resigning their seat, unless for health reasons etc.

There will be a few doing a "Bracksy" I would say!

[Studley 2436]

I think we will have to wait and see on Rudd Labor. His me too policies suggest he is in a bit of a vacuum with no purpose of his own. We will have to wait and see what his purpose and objective is.

I don't think there is a real problem with the IR laws just that they watered them down too much and ended up with a tangled mess that needs tidying up. You notice in WA where the new IR laws have really taken hold that people voted strongly for the Coalition? Most other places everyone is still on awards etc etc etc. The liberal government made a big mistake allowing the Unions to run their adds for so long without contesting the claims in them. Kevin Rudd too has been allowed to have the field to himself all year.

I found it interesting that last night Rudd said that it has been an incredibly tough year. I would have thought he has had a dream run, media has been very supportive of him, polls have been great all year and the Government looked frayed. I think he will find out a new meaning for tough now he is in office.

Studley

[Studley 2436]

He might John, but the reality of politics is that if you want the top job you have to fight for it, Hawke did, Keating did, Howard did, Rudd did and so did plenty of others.

There aren't too many in my memory that had the job handed to them on a plate, maybe Turnbull will have an easy ride now, but being Leader of the Opposition is not quite the same as being PM, is it?

Just wait for Costello to resign his seat, another by-election within 12 months.

There should be a law against politicians resigning their seat, unless for health reasons etc.

There will be a few doing a "Bracksy" I would say!

Costello did say last night that he would serve his term. He is still reasonably young so see what happens there.

Studley

[Brickie]

If you lot didnt vote for Labour (correct spelling btw), then who did?

I voted 3 times for Howard in previous elections, it was time for a change. :U

Give Rudd a go, its like picking on the newbie in a forum, bagging them before they have a chance to do or say anything just because they are new blood. :q

[Big Shed]

If you lot didnt vote for Labour (correct spelling btw)



I thought that Mr Rudds' party calls itself Labor? I could be wrong, but just looked in The Age, hardly an authoritative source, and that is how they spell it.

Went to the horses' mouth (http://www.alp.org.au/), yep Labor it is.

[Groggy]

If you lot didnt vote for Labour (correct spelling btw), then who did?Really (http://www.labor.com.au/)?

But I agree, give him a go, he hasn't even started yet.

[bitingmidge]

Woohoo! Now when do I get my high speed internet??

And what about those Indo's that have just been taken to Christmas Island? I guess they've been given a fair go this morning??

Cheers,

P
:p

[Brickie]

Either they cant spell, or their spell checker is locked into a yank speak. :D

Im just funnin wiv yus..:roll:

[echnidna]

If you lot didnt vote for Labour (correct spelling btw), then who did?

I voted 3 times for Howard in previous elections, it was time for a change. :U

Give Rudd a go, its like picking on the newbie in a forum, bagging them before they have a chance to do or say anything just because they are new blood. :q

Went ter me pollin booth in the afternoon and only the libs were there handing out how to vote cards. :oo:

I really did wanna see brownies ticket there so I could put his sttoge last on me ticket. :D

The whole town'll probably be wunderin who it was who voted agin the libs :D

[Rossluck]

I have to admit that I mucked up my vote. A staunch Labor supporter, I waited for ages to vote, got distracted by someone I knew who kept asking me questions, and only ticked one box on the green form. :-:-:- My man got in comfortably, however, and that made me feel better.

Have faith everyone, your fellow Australians have spoken. These are the same people who got this country to where it is today, not the pollies.

[bitingmidge]

their spell checker is locked into a yank speak. :D

Given that everyone on their side used to accuse John the magnificent of being up George Bush's posterior, that's pretty precious!

P
:D:D:D

[Brickie]

Ok, I give in.

[Big Shed]

Ok, I give in.

Sh*t, you must be getting old:o

[bitingmidge]

Now what'm I going to do?

I'm sitting here with a swollen ankle looking for a fight, and you've gone home!

P
:wink:

[Brickie]

I hate politics, always have done. :~

But that last PM, whats his name :p again? Just knew how to get to me, and most of the electorate obviously too by the looks of it.

Dont worry Midge, you wont be the minority for long, only 8 years at the very least..:2tsup:

[Boatmik]

If you lot didnt vote for Labour (correct spelling btw), then who did?

I voted 3 times for Howard in previous elections, it was time for a change. :U

I voted three times - this election. I clearly want a change even morer than you do!

Oh - Hold It, who was the guy who ...

The one with the glasses - yes - him I voted for him!!!!!

Phew - thought I was confused there for a moment.

MIK

[DavidG]

Did any one notice that in most seats the guy called informal got the third highest number of votes. :roll:

[astrid]

OK, kev is a little dull,
But there was a magnificent full moon last night,
I actually saw it
and I am SOOOOOOOO happy
Astrid
PS I only go mad on a quater moon!!!

[Sebastiaan56]

Yeah, and he'll apologise to everyone, opening us up to huge compensation claims, which he will then have to drain the Future Fund to pay for them, leaving nothing to fund exhorbitant Pollies and Public Servants superannuation payments.

I remember well the last time this mob were in, Libs had to sell all the silverware to get us out of debt. Alas, there is no silverware left, so if the debt levels rise, we all will cop it.:((

As if I care about Pollies and Pubic Servants Super. I pay mine out of my earnings so should they. Keating ran 3 surpluses and 1 deficit, it is appropriate to run a deficit when the economy stalls. The way the Aus economy is stretching capacity we are getting inflation, interest rate rises and maybe even a bit of recession. Surpluses are not the outcome good economic management just the effects of doubling the tax base and cutting state funding.

The rate of executions in Texas is 4 to 1 black to white. If I remember correctly the big Bush was the most hanginest Guvna ever... After his comments about the Bali bombers I really thought the death penalty would be floated in Aus if he had another term.

The sun is still shining, work continues, it will not be the end of the world because a different L is at the helm. In fact I dont expect there will be any difference for most of us. At least hate will not be institutionalised any more. If Kev keeps his word......

[wheelinround]

Correct me if I am wrong isn't this the first time Australia has had total Labour government state and Federal.

What will they call Rudd ----Ruddy Ridickulass and his faithful depity Daug Gillard she will be Rudd's attack dog.

Cheaper Asian imports here we come

Don't know what the worry is about Bush he'll soon be gone too and would have even if Little John had stayed.


As for how Australia voted http://www.abc.net.au/elections/federal/2007/guide/map.htm
looking at the map its only where the population is more concentrated that has won it for Labour.

[Geoff Dean]

As if I care about Pollies and Pubic Servants Super. I pay mine out of my earnings so should they.

You should care, because it is your money going to fund the excessive amounts of super that they receive.

You also missed my point. The future fund is set aside to pay for the superannuation that has already accrued. If it is spent, when the current crop of pollies retire, there will be nothing left to pay them out.

The money will have to come from somewhere...at that will be us.:((

[silentC]

Saw an interesting cut from a Rudd interview yesterday morning:

Interviewer: "So Mr Rudd, will you say sorry to the indigenous people of Australia"
Rudd: "Yes, there will certainly be an apology, but the exact words have not yet been determined"
I: "Yes, but will you say 'sorry'?"
R: "Well, as I say, there will be an apology, but the exact words are not yet decided"
I: "Will you say 'sorry'?"
R: "There will be an apology, but I don't have the exact words"
I: "but will you say 'sorry'?"
R: "Sorry, apologise, the words aren't important, but a full apology will be made"
I: "Now come on Mr Rudd, as you very well know, the controversy surrounding this issue is in the use of the word 'sorry', so will you be saying 'sorry'?"
R: "Look, of course I will say sorry, I thought you were asking me for the exact words, but I don't have them yet"

There's hope for the boy...

[Cliff Rogers]

"We'll all be ruined," said Hanrihan, "Before the year is out."

Arr well, we have lived through changes in government before, we will live through this one too, it is just a pity that it is such a waste of money. http://theblokeyshed.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Next???

[Koala-Man]

"We'll all be ruined," said Hanrihan, "Before the year is out."

Arr well, we have lived through changes in government before, we will live through this one too, it is just a pity that it is such a waste of money. http://theblokeyshed.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Next???

Waste of money? I fell quite uplifted by elections, actually, I think it's great that we're part of the (unfortunately) minority of the world's population that can undergo a change of government without an outbreak of civil war, bloodshed, persecution, whatever, and be confident that whichever party gets into power they'll do a reasonable job. I mean, there's no Putins, Mugabes or Musharrafs waiting to take over. I'm very thankful for that and I think we can count our blessings.

I don't think there's anything much to worry about in the industrial relations arena. As far as I can tell the ALP only wants to turn the clock back to about 2005.

Only time will tell, of course, but I'm fairly confident the unions aren't going to steal our babies and eat them alive.

Gaz.

[Cliff Rogers]

As I said.... we have lived through changes in government before, we will live through this one too.

It is still a waste of money.

[Koala-Man]

Or maybe he never really wanted the job that much.

Turnbull would have to be a shoe-in for the position now...

I wouldn't be surprised if we haven't seen the last of Costello.

yes, Turnbull's in the box seat for the leadership of the opposition. The question is how long he can hold onto that. My guess is that convincing the Australian electorate will be a heck of a lot harder than charming the denizens of the well-heeled harbourside, beachside electorate of Wentworth.

And the global economy is feeling the strain - it is quite conveivable that a failed election campaign with Turnbull at the helm and a worsening economic situation over the next election could set the scene for Costello to make a triumphant return.

He will have learnt his political lessons well from his former master.

Gaz.

[AlexS]

Correct me if I am wrong isn't this the first time Australia has had total Labour government state and Federal.


I believe it's the first time there has been wall to wall Labor. There has been one previous occasion when there was wall to wall Liberal governments.

The world didn't end then, either.

[LotteBum]

I heard last night that the highest office-holding liberal in Australia is now the Lord Mayor of Brisbane?

Yep. You can rest assured that he'll lose the next election, which I believe is early next year. He is a very, very disliked man and there are some good alternatives around the place. People love to speak of Labor getting the country into debt. (Can Do Cam)pbell Newman has managed to get us into a snotload of debt with his ridiculous infrastructure projects...

[LotteBum]

There's hope for the boy...

1. What a stupid, stupid question from the interviewer.

2. Do you recall some of Howard's gaffes over the years?

3. Give him a chance.

[silentC]

What amuses me is the cavalier attitude some people have towards choice of government in this country. We need a change, give him a chance, let's see how they go before we judge them. It's not like we've just employed a high school leaver for a trial run in our fish and chip shop. There are people's jobs and houses and general financial well-being that are on the line here. It's not good enough, in my opinion, to take someone on face value and 'give them a chance'. You want to be damn sure that they are going to do a good job and that you know all about them before handing them the baton, because it's not a game.

[silentC]

BTW I think it was a very good question from the interviewer. Howard said he felt remorse for the stolen generation but stopped short of apologising for it, because it was not his place to apologise. People took him up on his choice of words, so it's entirely reasonable for them to do the same with Rudd. Rudd differentiates himself from Howard on his willingness to 'say sorry', so lets see if he actually does it in those words.

[Gingermick]

. (Can Do Cam)pbell Newman has managed to get us into a snotload of debt with his ridiculous infrastructure projects...

Just what Brisbane needs. More roads for more vehicles. They could just spend the money on public transport and make it free. That might ease congestion.
But I shouldn't talk too loud, my company is designing some of the tunnels. :oo:

[echnidna]

What amuses me is the cavalier attitude some people have towards choice of government in this country. We need a change, give him a chance, let's see how they go before we judge them. It's not like we've just employed a high school leaver for a trial run in our fish and chip shop. There are people's jobs and houses and general financial well-being that are on the line here. It's not good enough, in my opinion, to take someone on face value and 'give them a chance'. You want to be damn sure that they are going to do a good job and that you know all about them before handing them the baton, because it's not a game.

Its just the old guard Whinging SC so disregard them.

Both sides have old guards, they're the sort that'll vote for Atilla The Hun Or Hitler Or Stalin if they are the leader of their party.

Then there's the thinkers,
Some might be turned off their current party so they won't vote for them but they'll never vote for the enemy

And the Greedy Thinkers,
who vote if there's something in it for them.

and the Free Thinkers,
who try to vote for the best party for the country

[Brickie]

Im surprised that no one has told Kev to do a search yet seeing as how hes the new blood. :U:U:roll:

[TEEJAY]

I only hope we are past the days of

Gee what do we have coming up Christmas or Easter or a long weekend AND . . . .

Let me guess it's a

Transport union strike,

A fuel strike,

A teachers strike

They were sad times - I used to get so angry watching the petrol refinery workers going into the refineries and filling their cars up whilst the rest of the nation had nothing but rations and empty fuel tanks. The workers would give obscene jestures to the cameras and then trundle off - the strike didn't have to bother them.

[JDarvall]

BTW I think it was a very good question from the interviewer. Howard said he felt remorse for the stolen generation but stopped short of apologising for it, because it was not his place to apologise. People took him up on his choice of words, so it's entirely reasonable for them to do the same with Rudd. Rudd differentiates himself from Howard on his willingness to 'say sorry', so lets see if he actually does it in those words.

Whats the difference between 'feeling remorse' and 'sorry' ?

I don't like the thought of the stolen generation etc either. I think its horrible. But I'm not responsible for it.

When somebody says their sorry, their expressing remorse for some direct involvement in it......arn't they ?

Howards not directly responsible for it. Nor is anyone here. He shouldn't have to say he's sorry. Nor should Rudd. Its a rediculous expectation.

[silentC]

One of my first experiences with unions was in 1987. I was working as a labourer on a building site in Sydney. It was a multi-residential housing site, so commercial but not like a shopping centre or office block. One day a union rep came onto the site and called a 'meeting'. He wanted a show of hands on how many union members there were. About 3 blokes put their hands up. He said "the rest of you have until Friday to sign up and pay your dues, or we are going to close this site and none of you will be able to work here until you do".

I said to my boss that I couldn't afford to join a union (can't remember how much it was going to be, but it was more than my weekly take home pay). He said not to worry, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. The union guy never came back.

:)

[silentC]

Howards not directly responsible for it. Nor is anyone here. He shouldn't have to say he's sorry. Nor should Rudd. Its a rediculous expectation.I agree. I'll be disappointed if he does. The thing is Rudd made it an election issue - "we'll ratify Kyoto, we'll roll back Work Choices, we'll apologise to Indigenous Australia". I just thought it was amusing that he was playing word games over it. That's why I said "there's hope for the boy" - very Howardesque I thought. Will be interesting to see what he eventually does say, if and when.

[Sebastiaan56]

I only hope we are past the days of

Gee what do we have coming up Christmas or Easter or a long weekend AND . . . .

Let me guess it's a

Transport union strike,

A fuel strike,

A teachers strike

Actually the beer strike before XMAS was the cruelest cut of all. That said I expect those days are behind us, Hawke and Keating nobbled that stuff long before Johnny came onto the scene.

As for the apology, I think as a gesture of reconciliation it is extremely powerful and should be done. The affected people seem to need it to move on so it seems a small amount of largesse for a large gain in good will. It would be even better if the ownership of the land was returned, not to mention funding for womens refuges etc.

The future fund, well.... they put Telstra into it didnt they..... One way or another they will have their pound of flesh. As to any party ripping out that resource, we will have to wait and see.

Sebastiaan

[Waldo]

Give Rudd a full quarter in office Jan-March and we'll see:

• unemployment up

• GDP down

• we'll see more millitant union strikes like that in Newcastle in 96 or was it 97?

Tonight we'll see the local markets bomb dive.

Australia will be in the poo.

[silentC]

The affected people seem to need it to move on
I don't know, every affected person I've ever heard speaking publicly about it has said they don't need or want our apology. It wont change anything and it just gives people somewhere to focus blame. What they need to do is move on from it. Take the assistance that is given, ask for help where it is needed, and accept that past wrongs cannot be undone. They need to take some responsibility for their own future.

[TEEJAY]

My memory may not be 100% but I only recall Hawke beating the crap out of one union strike and that was the upper class silver tail pilot's union.

Don't recall either Keating or Hawk taking on any other.

Have any workers union had a flogging with them?

I do recall the Wharves and Liberals but . . .

[Big Shed]

"We'll all be ruined," said Hanrihan, "Before the year is out."

Arr well, we have lived through changes in government before, we will live through this one too, it is just a pity that it is such a waste of money. http://theblokeyshed.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Next???

:2tsup:


Give Rudd a full quarter in office Jan-March and we'll see:

• unemployment up

• GDP down

• we'll see more millitant union strikes like that in Newcastle in 96 or was it 97?

Tonight we'll see the local markets bomb dive.

Australia will be in the poo.

Market seems to like Kevin Eleven,..............up 140 points or over 2%!:;

Oh just looked,the $A is up 0.5c as well, there may be life after Howard after all.............

[echnidna]

My memory may not be 100% but I only recall Hawke beating the crap out of one union strike and that was the upper class silver tail pilot's union.

Don't recall either Keating or Hawk taking on any other.

Have any workers union had a flogging with them?

I do recall the Wharves and Liberals but . . .

BLF

[Rossluck]

Once again I detect in these posts this terrible fear of unions and strikes. It's completely unfounded for two reasons:

(1) society has changed to the extent that we are more affluent and in a booming economy (mainly because of WA's mineral boom), and while we are enjoying such wealth there is less of a need for employers to screw the workers.

(2) Unions have never been the oppressive, dark and destructive force that some here would suggest. Apart from a those few unions that occasionally lost the plot over time because of power and greed, they have in the main been beneficial and the only source of power for workers. I annoys the hell out of me that people who have benefited enormously because of unions over the years so quickly decry them. It reminds me of people who run the police down, and then when they need help they're desperately phoning 000 to get help from a copper as soon as possible. In other words, the union and the police are only mongrels when you don't need them.

I always declare my political allegiances in this forum because I abhor the practice of people pretending they are "swinging voters", neutral and objective, and then run a very consistent string of strong anti-Labor and anti-union arguments.

[Pusser]

Whats the difference between 'feeling remorse' and 'sorry' ?

I don't like the thought of the stolen generation etc either. I think its horrible. But I'm not responsible for it.

When somebody says their sorry, their expressing remorse for some direct involvement in it......arn't they ?

Howards not directly responsible for it. Nor is anyone here. He shouldn't have to say he's sorry. Nor should Rudd. Its a rediculous expectation.

He was sorry for the interest rates hike - does that mean he caused it? No - it was economic factors outside his control as was the economic groth and the low interest rates.

[Waldo]

(2) Unions have never been the oppressive, dark and destructive force that some here would suggest. Apart from a those few unions that occasionally lost the plot over time because of power and greed, they have in the main been beneficial and the only source of power for workers. I annoys the hell out of me that people who have benefited enormously because of unions over the years so quickly decry them. It reminds me of people who run the police down, and then when they need help they're desperately phoning 000 to get help from a copper as soon as possible. In other words, the union and the police are only mongrels when you don't need them.

You reckon? :? :no:

[Gingermick]

You reckon? :? :no:

Ask the people with asbestosis.

[Christopha]

(2) Unions have never been the oppressive, dark and destructive force that some here would suggest. Apart from a those few unions that occasionally lost the plot over time because of power and greed, they have in the main been beneficial and the only source of power for workers. I annoys the hell out of me that people who have benefited enormously because of unions over the years so quickly decry them. It reminds me of people who run the police down, and then when they need help they're desperately phoning 000 to get help from a copper as soon as possible. In other words, the union and the police are only mongrels when you don't need them.

:roll:And just when did you arrive from your alternative universe????:doh:

[Ashore]

Once again I detect in these posts this terrible fear of unions and strikes. It's completely unfounded for two reasons:

(2) Unions have never been the oppressive, dark and destructive force that some here would suggest. Apart from a those few unions that occasionally lost the plot over time because of power and greed, they have in the main been beneficial and the only source of power for workers.
Never went to sea for a living then ?

[TEEJAY]

I work in the building industry and find the further you go South the more power and interfering the unions become.

Brisbane the place works fantastic

Melbourne sites I have been to are just run by union delegates, in a very confrontational and obstructionist way. Guys just cruising around the site all day looking for things to cause a stir about. Crazy.

I see it on the sites and a day here and there and you don't have to be Einstein to observe it - as it is so much in your face and ugly.

Yes I do see more than a moderate amount of stand over and it is the way many building unions operate, so i don't base my thinking on media sensationalism or rumour.

[Rossluck]

:roll:And just when did you arrive from your alternative universe????:doh:

You may be right. There's a lot of red necks on this planet. :wink:

[Koala-Man]

Unions can be useful and sometimes they can do a lot of damage and need laws to control them. A bit like limited liability companies, drugs, dogs and table saws, really.

In any case, the decline in union membership (about one in seven private sector workers and falling) means the setting and enforcement of wages and conditions for most workers is now in the political domain.

By that I mean the parliament rather than industrial courts now does these things. The third alternative - leaving it up to market forces - has now been rejected by the electorate.

I would imagine the ALP would be very keen to show the anti-union scare campaign was wrong. Time will tell.

[Rossluck]

Unions can be useful and sometimes they can do a lot of damage and need laws to control them. A bit like limited liability companies, drugs, dogs and table saws, really.

In any case, the decline in union membership (about one in seven private sector workers and falling) means the setting and enforcement of wages and conditions for most workers is now in the political domain.

By that I mean the parliament rather than industrial courts now does these things. The third alternative - leaving it up to market forces - has now been rejected by the electorate.

I would imagine the ALP would be very keen to show the anti-union scare campaign was wrong. Time will tell.


Well written. Balanced and fair. Exactly the type of open-minded and intelligent post I like. :2tsup:

[silentC]

the decline in union membership
I find myself wondering how much that has to do with the decline in relevance of unions under the Howard government's anti-union policies. Will be interesting to see if that statistic changes in the next couple of years.

[mic-d]

the sky is falling!
Cheers
Michael

[silentC]

Are you being sarcastic? :cool:

[Gra]

the sky is falling!
Cheers
Michael


Are you being sarcastic? :cool:

Nah its just raining up there:U:U

[Sebastiaan56]

A couple of things unions have achieved that I doubt anyone would have got any other way; Sick leave, Annual leave, Workers Comp, OH&S legislation, Superannuation. We regard them as normal but at the beginning of the 20thC they were not at all available for the bulk of the population.

I remember being called out to strike because the shop steward wanted a few days off, or it costing about $300 to join the union before I could get a start on a building site. Or having my car beat up by fellow staff members who were being egged on by a firebrand because I refused to go out with them.

As with all things unions cut both ways, I hope Aus can move on from the bigotry and institutionalised hatred of those who are different from the official position. This is the biggest challenge in recovering from the Howard years. Ask any Muslim,

Sebastiaan

[Waldo]

costing about $300 to join the union before I could get a start on a building site.
Sebastiaan

Therein lies one point of my hatred towards unions - extortion. You can't work for someone who has employed you because someone else demands that you fill his pockets on a weekly basis with union fees. :((

If ever the day comes when a union tries to muscle into the advertising industry and walks into my door he'll never wish he tried.

Sure they have a place, but it's with a big but.